Topic: Pirate v2.0: Unravelling the Bitshares Ponzi - page 4. (Read 12720 times)

Apparently, you are not familiar with the economics that goes along with violating the so-called no ponzi assumption. I can own the whole world and my neighbour can own it too.
That is why we impose this assumption in the first place. Without it everything turns into complete nonsense.

Hey how do I report this to the SEC anyway? Anyone with experience in this area care to point me in the right direction?

Neither one of you own the whole world... because 2x the whole world would have to be held as collateral to back a long position in the whole world... unfortunately, BitShares are part of the world and thus such a concept is entirely impossible.

I can say this... the value of BitShares must always be 1.5 to 2.5 x the value of all BitAssets in existence.  This is easy to prove because the creation of a BitAsset requires equal value from two parties and thus 2x the value of that asset held as collateral.

Given this constraint, no value is ever created or destroyed in our system aside from the increasing value of BitShares themselves due to their utility.   This is like Bitcoin rising in value relative to other things.  

In case you haven't cottoned on to the fact that these guys are quite ready to lie when it suits them,
read the thread and find my solicitation of $300k. Or maybe you assholes could help out and post it here?

The fabrications are just an attempt to draw the spotlight away from their own criminal conspiracy.
Don't worry, said spotlight is not going anywhere.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hop-whitepaper-altcoin-solution-for-trustless-decentralized-btc-usd-exchange-297147



BitShares shares no common code with Bitcoin we are building our own blockchain, PoW and desktop client from the ground up


BitShares will be its own cryptocurrency specifically designed for the kinds of trading we are advocating. Bitcoin does not have a method to support shorts and issuing options in a trustless way. We do and we have to design an entirely new currency to do it well.

This is just the type of evidence the SEC needs to put you away. Can't wait to see the internal e-mails. Now you tell me that you are still testing, you claim to not be sure, you think maybe it is an "unstable equilibrium."

But when doing reports for the press for the eyes of naive investors you say this:
http://www.coindesk.com/bitshares-p2p-trading-platform-to-offer-dividends-on-bitcoins/


You have been a very naughty boy.

"We spent countless hours nicely answering his questions with no luck while he both attacked our character and business model. He claims we are a ponzi scheme. He even made a powerpoint and posted it online. I'm sorry if you can't see how these actions differ from just a normal troll. We are building free software and giving it to everybody to use for their own projects and we are being attacked. BFL is a scam. They took people's money and never delivered and then asked for more. Where did we take yours and how do we profit from BitShares? Meanwhile Cunicula is asking for 300k of YOUR MONEY to fund his idea"

friend , I don't even know what Cunicula's idea is...

Bitcoin is far from flawless or solid in its self , trying to build a financial mechanism on top of it is,  i feel ....  "brave"  .

I don't see the "financialization" of a blockchain innovation, why not just issue a new Cryptocurrency   ?

let its stand on its own two feet .. its hard one isn't it ?

so either you are playing a game that isn't yours or you are playing your own game.

Oh, I wouldn't worry about the market cap. After all you have a created a risk free system allowing anyone and everyone who invests (or their descendents) to achieve world domination. You will have plenty of bitshares to create 100 million bitBTC with.

What I'm more concerned about is how I can own the whole world and my neighbour can own the whole world at the same time? This matter might cause some confusion. Do you have some theoretical physics story to go along with the prediction market? That might help to smooth things over.

Good luck, seriously good luck,  just one thing...

Gold Silver , cumbersome not really fungible compared to , oh say a digital decentralized currency - ., then add the Generational investor differential, baby boomers early X in metals - post x in Crypto..

just a point.

financializing a digital decentralized currency is going to be a very hard "lift time" that is to say , even if you get CNN on board (even if they are still relevant in say 5 years) , your time to get investors in on this I think is going to be,  long an hard.

but I can see what you are trying to do .

it reminds me of the aforementioned Facbook IPO  .

Non-retard part of argument


Let's think very carefully about this one billy. What happens to the supply of BitShares if all of them are in escrow as a result of people shorting BitBTC? The value of your BitBTC falls in relation to the BitShares meaning your 100 million BitBTC isn't worth very much compared to the BitShares you bought them with.


Non-sense like functioning free markets. Yes they totally don't work at all....


It's an unstable equilibrium so no. The dividend rate will have an effect on the price which has yet to be determined and one of the reasons why we are running a TestNet. I disagree that the price will monotonically decrease to zero as you have claimed and you really don't seem to understand that markets have two sides. But this is why we test things before we release them.

You have also completely discounted that we are building the infrastructure for any trading system and Keyhotee will support them as a plugin if desired. We are building a platform and if we got something wrong then it's robust enough to support something else. This is one of the reasons why I have lost all respect for you. You are attacking our integrity while we freely give away a gateway for any type of prediction market ironically including your own.



Ugh

Okay, where do I sign up?[/quote]

We spent countless hours nicely answering his questions with no luck while he both attacked our character and business model. He claims we are a ponzi scheme. He even made a powerpoint and posted it online. I'm sorry if you can't see how these actions differ from just a normal troll. We are building free software and giving it to everybody to use for their own projects and we are being attacked. BFL is a scam. They took people's money and never delivered and then asked for more. Where did we take yours and how do we profit from BitShares? Meanwhile Cunicula is asking for 300k of YOUR MONEY to fund his idea.

Ok, this is a fair point of confusion that many people will have... so let me address it.

There are 100 million BitBTC  backed by  150 to 250 million BTC worth of BitShares which means for this situation to occur, BitShares must have a market cap at least 10 x that of Bitcoin or these positions could never have been created.    

Each of these BitBTC would be paying a non-0 amount of BitShares as dividends and therefore the market value of a BitBTC will be greater than a BTC so if you enter the market attempting to sell 100 million BitBTC for actual BTC you would cause the BitBTC/BTC price to sag and create HUGE arbitrage opportunities for people to purchase your BitBTC 'cheap' with BTC and then sell them for BitShares.        

So now that I have explained the market dynamics,  admitted that an idiot could attempt to manipulate the price of BitBTC/BTC by selling at a loss, and shown that 100 million BitBTC cannot be created from thin air, but requires 200 million BTC worth of value to be backing it do you see the difference?

Dam , sounds familiar .

fool me once shame on me...ah...

fool me ..ah fool ... ah me... fool them.....ah ........{pause}

THE POINT IS I CAN'T BE FOOLED TWICE !

** you know i tried to make a "BUSH for president" Facebook the year Obama got elected, it wasn't very popular - i really don't know why i wasn't actually joking , in fact I don't even live in the USA and I voted for Bush this year , I just wrote him in , in my country .

I still claim he was the best President.   

Wooh there , slow down ....

I think your above numbers are based on a 3 or 4 ipmb -  3 or 4 *Idiots Per Minute Born

Bitshare is only expecting I heard from 1 to 2 IPMB - *Idiots Per Minute Born , so you would have to shave that 100 million BTC down to maybe 80 Million , that being generous , but still a good profit...

Its a fool born every minute. Back when I was in high school there was a person born every minute.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time."

So if an idiot is someone you can fool some of the time, then by now they might be being born faster than one per minute.

But if an idiot is someone you can fool all of the time, well, the who you can fool quote isn't a lot of help in determining their birth rate.

-MarkM-

I purchase 1 bitBTC. I earn bitshares as my share of txn fees. I reinvest these txn fees to buy more bitBTC. Eventually, I have 100 million bitBTC. I earned all these from my share of txn fees you see.

I take these to a market trading bitBTC / BTC pairs. Something about longs and shorts, a prediction market, and other such nonsense ensures that I can always trade 1 bitBTC for about 1 BTC on average.

So now I make my trades and I have my 100 million BTC.

Okay, where do I sign up? We really gotta promote this thing hard!!!

Not sure which of these is the better marketing slogan:
(A completely risk free system to turn 1 BTC into 100 million BTC)
(A completely risk free system to turn 1 BTC into ownership of every single asset in the world. They will have to reintroduce slavery, so you will have new stuff to purchase.)

Yeah yeah its all above board sure thing, yes indeed anyone that questions this rock solid system is an idiot indeed ...

- good luck with everything, personally I think you are living in the 90's if you think anyone is going to fall for this - but then they say an idiot is born every minute , I'm not sure of the target rate for idiots - it may be 2.5 minutes or 2 minutes ?

- actually I don't even know what the acceptable target rate for an idiot is these days ?

- but if an idiot is actually born at least every 2.6 minutes you guys stand to make a packet ! some of those may have a double or triple reward , considering the latest IVF technical's

what's BitBTC target rate going to be?

Dan, let this one go. He's beyond reason and has embraced the picture:



Cunicula, I have some advice that RDJ gave me about what you're doing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y3FzVQi-R8

Keep hitting that straw man...

First of all, as long as there are transaction fees in the network dividends can be paid and the holder of BitBTC can receive them. 
Second there is no debt in the system, unless you count 2x collateralized short positions debt.
Third, you must assume a VERY thin market before there would exist a condition where someone Long BitBTC wouldn't voluntarily give it up for a profit as a result of a short squeeze.
Fourth, if the volatility is high enough to wipe out the collateral then the BitBTC could face some losses in the short term.

The thing you are missing in all of this is the dividend paying asset generated by the profitable operation of a p2p exchange.   The BitBTC gets a share of these profits and can continue to get a share of these profits forever.  If profits go to 0 because all trading stops, then of course your asset is probably worth 0 and the non-0 value assumption for BitShares was expressed upfront.

By the way, when you finally do see the errors of your analysis I expect to see those 70 BTC that you have bet on this being a ponzi. 

ha ha one thing I do like is in this whole threat is the cute way in which cunicula some how thinks the "Law" will deal with this ha ha....

{wipes some tears away from laughing} anyway ...


no friend , the market will deal with this , the "Law" is there to get the big guys.. , you know all the huge banks that have bankrupt your nation ha ha !

{wipes more tears...sniff}

{bursts out laughing again....}

{sigh....}

{thinking hmm maybe they are small enough to prosecute....??}

byemaster how many Senators have you go in your pocket?

you are going to need at least 3 , according to the "Help Kickstart WW3" video.

you are up for 30 million , to buy 3 Senators .

Never mind  the BTC "early adopters" ha ha ha !