Plagiarism should remain a zero-tolerance bannable offense

eternalgloom

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Quote from: Lauda on May 22, 2019, 05:54:05 AM

Right. So go back to the example that I showed. Was my mistake delibarate? If yes, why? If not, why not? How can you, as an outsider tell?

No, I reckon that any mod who saw that being quoted, would look at the context and deem it to be a simple mistake.
I mean, it's generally pretty easy to spot honest mistakes among deliberate acts of plagiarism. Some people ITT call it murky, but I disagree, most cases are pretty clear.

As I've mentioned in the OP, these are not the cases I'm talking about, I'd classify this as a simple mistake and yes, they're fairly easy to spot.
Sure, mistakes can happen with regards to moderating, but once it's laid out in the open and looked at by many people, I think almost everyone would agree that it's a simple case of posting a quote and genuinely forgetting to add the source.

If I post this:

Quote

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

I would think that just having the quotes there would be enough to discount it from being plagiarism. It's also perfectly logical to have the quotes there, since, well, you're posting a quote...

Should I add a source to that quote? Or would that be fine without it? I'd think it would be fine without it, although I'd argue that adding it is just a bit more polite to do, so:

Source: Charles Caleb Colton

marlboroza

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Quote from: Lauda on May 22, 2019, 05:54:05 AM

Right. So go back to the example that I showed. Was my mistake delibarate? If yes, why? If not, why not? How can you, as an outsider tell?

I think you should ask theymos do you need to put humor under quotation and post source, but the moment you do all that it loses its purpose and it is not funny any more, therefore that prayer shouldn't even be there.

I am pretty sure correct term for this exist and it is definitely not plagiarism

Lauda

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Quote from: eternalgloom on May 22, 2019, 05:26:56 AM

Quote from: Lauda on May 21, 2019, 12:14:01 PM

Quote from: eternalgloom on May 21, 2019, 12:10:24 PM

How is plagiarism an acceptable mistake? Do you even know what plagiarism means?

From the Oxford Dictionary:

Quote

The practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.

Source: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/plagiarism

In what world is it ever acceptable to pass someone else's work off as your own? That's what we're talking about, right?

In this world, right here. Read again:

Quote from: Lauda on May 21, 2019, 11:58:48 AM

Absolute e-warior bullshit. Nobody in the real world strongly cares about that unless we're talking about published/for-profit work.

Acceptable or not, fact is that it can, has, and will happen as a mistake. Claiming otherwise is DISHONEST. This is not even up for debate as it's a factual statement. Hence, end of story.

Well, that is not what I'm saying though, I'm specifically focusing on the deliberate act of passing off someone's work as your own. By definition, something like that cannot happen by accident.

Right. So go back to the example that I showed. Was my mistake delibarate? If yes, why? If not, why not? How can you, as an outsider tell?

eternalgloom

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on May 21, 2019, 12:09:15 PM

Quote from: eternalgloom on May 21, 2019, 08:38:02 AM

We've all seen the excuses in the recent mass ban appeals, first they claim to have no idea why they were banned and then they claim it's 'such a hard punishment' for a 'simple' mistake.

Those are the same things they've always said, and it's definitely bullshit.

I'm not sure what the situation is with plagiarism bans right now--are people still getting permabans with some people getting exceptions in the form of signature bans? If Theymos made an official post about it, I must have missed it--but I do know exceptions are being made for members who are otherwise productive members of the forum.

The main issue IMO with the recent mass banning is that the punishment is (I'm assuming) for plagiarism that happened a long time ago, and some of these members might not have repeated that behavior since then. In those cases I do think it's very harsh to permaban them, though I think a signature ban is appropriate.

OP, I agree that plagiarism is despicable and shouldn't be tolerated--but even if not all of the members who recently got caught got permabanned, it's definitely sending a loud and clear message to would-be plagiarists. Hopefully we'll see a lot less of it from here on out.

Completely fair response, I guess it would be acceptable to issue a temporary punishment in cases where plagiarism happened a long time ago and the person has stopped doing this afterwards.
I'm all for letting people learn from their mistakes and giving them a second chance, even though the OP indicates otherwise.

Guess I can't really comprehend why someone would take such a stupid shortcut on purpose. To me it seems such a simple thing to avoid really and I do really hate the practise of stealing someone's words and passing them as one's own. Heck, I'd be able to write much more intelligent responses if I were able to do that :')

Quote from: Lauda on May 21, 2019, 12:14:01 PM

Quote from: eternalgloom on May 21, 2019, 12:10:24 PM

How is plagiarism an acceptable mistake? Do you even know what plagiarism means?

From the Oxford Dictionary:

Quote

The practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.

Source: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/plagiarism

In what world is it ever acceptable to pass someone else's work off as your own? That's what we're talking about, right?

In this world, right here. Read again:

Quote from: Lauda on May 21, 2019, 11:58:48 AM

Absolute e-warior bullshit. Nobody in the real world strongly cares about that unless we're talking about published/for-profit work.

Acceptable or not, fact is that it can, has, and will happen as a mistake. Claiming otherwise is DISHONEST. This is not even up for debate as it's a factual statement. Hence, end of story.

Well, that is not what I'm saying though, I'm specifically focusing on the deliberate act of passing off someone's work as your own. By definition, something like that cannot happen by accident.
But hey, maybe it's better to just agree to disagree.

hilariousetc

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Quote from: HCP on May 21, 2019, 05:54:26 PM

What about the situation where the plagiarised posts predate the posting of the forum rules relating to plagiarism/copypasta?

I've seen it mentioned a couple of times now that the rules relating to plagiarism were only added mid-2016.

It's irrelevant when it was done as people should know this wouldn't be acceptable. If you purposely plagiarised someone else's post whether to farm an account or for financial gain then that tells us all we need to know and you're here for the wrong reasons. There's really no excuses for plagiarism other than laziness and greed.

Quote from: LoyceV on May 22, 2019, 03:22:24 AM

Quote from: suchmoon on May 21, 2019, 10:16:57 AM

How about we give it some time, 90-120 days to let the temp bans expire and see how the sig-less copy-pasters perform. Will some of them disappear due to not getting paid?

If they disappear and return after their signature ban expired, it means they didn't deserve the lenience in the first place.

Quote

In which case the sig ban is good enough, as it gives good users a second chance and effectively bans the financially-motivated ones. Will they abuse the sig ban? Not sure how they would do that though.

Some avatars pay more than most signatures Wink

There is no avatar ban yet, even banned users get to keep it.

If people try skirting their sig ban by monetising their avatars then they should also be removed. If they're not then maybe even negative feedback should be considered if they try monetise themselves in such a way as this is essentially just evading their bans.

btcsmlcmnr

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Quote from: LoyceV on May 22, 2019, 03:22:24 AM

Admins can see all old versions of edited posts.
A better way of framing someone would be to use an external site under your control, and fake the creation date of a post. This has happened.

Is it the case from which bitcointalk.org forum has feature to see edited time of post/ thread? I checked the topic, but did not see such information on the activation day of Edited time Display. In my experience, I saw Edited time on my mobile devices just recent months, maybe in the early days of 2019, not in 2018. It is easy to realize on mobile devices because Edited time automatically displayed. On computer or laptop, we have to scroll mouse to the line of Publishing time to see Edited time.

LoyceV

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Quote from: suchmoon on May 21, 2019, 10:16:57 AM

How about we give it some time, 90-120 days to let the temp bans expire and see how the sig-less copy-pasters perform. Will some of them disappear due to not getting paid?

If they disappear and return after their signature ban expired, it means they didn't deserve the lenience in the first place.

Quote from: Lauda on May 21, 2019, 12:07:59 PM

Quote from: philipma1957 on May 21, 2019, 12:06:46 PM

So what safeguard from a person looking to hurt someone from doing this to an old post

That's a different problem, yes. There's this:

However, that is not nearly adequate. A moderator does not see what has changed.

Admins can see all old versions of edited posts.
A better way of framing someone would be to use an external site under your control, and fake the creation date of a post. This has happened.

darklus123

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Quote from: btcsmlcmnr on May 22, 2019, 01:19:32 AM

There is quote button available for use, and help us more easily to mention as well as point out previous posts/ discussions without fear of plagiarism violations. Human can make mistakes, even with plagiarism, sometimes we unintentionally make it (but such unintentional plagiarism is so rare), but most of times, people plagiarised mainly due to their laziness, and financial motivation behind (such as want to get easy money by copying and pasting to hit post quota). In my opinion, it's hard to explain why users do plagiarism and get sympathy as well as reduced sentence for that. Therefore, by now there are very limited users whom received reduced sentences.

I agree, primarily that was the main reason. Tho, as we look at the human system when it comes to crime even the death penalty can be revoked. So as I have said as long as they know what they have done wrong then solemnley swear that they will be no longer doing the same mistakes plus did some good deeds as well during the said period of time then "it might slightly" be considerable.

Quote

There are some users whom made ban appeals for others, but I don't know such ban appeals on behalf of real banned users will be considered as ban evasion or not. By now, within current terrible banwave, I have not seen admins or global moderators call it as ban evasions. In addition, I guess what you actually meant about changes is things, contributions or net-effects in the forum that users did after his or her plagiarism (when they were not found) and before the permanent-banned days. It is sure that such contributions play important role in investigation procedures of admins, and global moderators.

I personally hate it when somebody does that to those users who commit the said crime. I have also seen people demanding because of their said contribution (which actually makes them a very terrible user in this community).

btcsmlcmnr

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There is quote button available for use, and help us more easily to mention as well as point out previous posts/ discussions without fear of plagiarism violations. Human can make mistakes, even with plagiarism, sometimes we unintentionally make it (but such unintentional plagiarism is so rare), but most of times, people plagiarised mainly due to their laziness, and financial motivation behind (such as want to get easy money by copying and pasting to hit post quota). In my opinion, it's hard to explain why users do plagiarism and get sympathy as well as reduced sentence for that. Therefore, by now there are very limited users whom received reduced sentences.

Quote from: darklus123 on May 22, 2019, 01:06:11 AM

I personally don't like copying someone's post.

There are some users whom made ban appeals for others, but I don't know such ban appeals on behalf of real banned users will be considered as ban evasion or not. By now, within current terrible banwave, I have not seen admins or global moderators call it as ban evasions. In addition, I guess what you actually meant about changes is things, contributions or net-effects in the forum that users did after his or her plagiarism (when they were not found) and before the permanent-banned days. It is sure that such contributions play important role in investigation procedures of admins, and global moderators.

Quote

Therefore I personally support un - banning plagiarist who Do not ask for it but have shown his/her effort to change it.

darklus123

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I personally don't like copying someone's post. Tho, even if I was a victim before of the said issue. I still consider some cases in which they have known, have understood and have changed their mistake.

Therefore I personally support un - banning plagiarist who Do not ask for it but have shown his/her effort to change it. Other than that if the said plagiarizing was made not by mistake and for gaining some incentives then a permaban is really worth the punishment

Quickseller

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Quote from: suchmoon on May 21, 2019, 08:23:48 PM

Quote from: Quickseller on May 21, 2019, 05:49:18 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on May 21, 2019, 03:38:58 PM

I that case no sane person would report it and certainly no mod would ban for it.

I think I have my answer Roll Eyes

Yes you do. The answer is - you're not sane if you think a post with a quote inside quote tags can be reported as plagiarism. But you're welcome to try.

Bullshit. There is zero reason for lauda to post about this if this was the extent of his plagiarism.

The implication of lauda posting about this is that he previously plagiarized and wants you to either not report any plagiarism of his that you find, or for you to not look for his plagiarism, or for you to warn him of any plagiarism you find before you report it.

jademaxsuy

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Quote from: suchmoon on May 21, 2019, 08:23:48 PM

Yes you do. The answer is - you're not sane if you think a post with a quote inside quote tags can be reported as plagiarism. But you're welcome to try.

Mods are not sane too to ban such kind of report when it was being qouted meaning to say that it is not being owned by the one who posted it. Anyway, I think there is no need to report that kind of post and it is a common sense. It should not be to avoid also getting bad report.

suchmoon

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Quote from: Quickseller on May 21, 2019, 05:49:18 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on May 21, 2019, 03:38:58 PM

I that case no sane person would report it and certainly no mod would ban for it.

I think I have my answer Roll Eyes

Yes you do. The answer is - you're not sane if you think a post with a quote inside quote tags can be reported as plagiarism. But you're welcome to try.

Quickseller

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Quote from: HCP on May 21, 2019, 05:54:26 PM

What about the situation where the plagiarised posts predate the posting of the forum rules relating to plagiarism/copypasta?

I've seen it mentioned a couple of times now that the rules relating to plagiarism were only added mid-2016.

Ban.

HCP

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What about the situation where the plagiarised posts predate the posting of the forum rules relating to plagiarism/copypasta?

I've seen it mentioned a couple of times now that the rules relating to plagiarism were only added mid-2016.

Quickseller

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Quote from: Quickseller on May 21, 2019, 02:55:41 PM

Quote from: Lauda on May 21, 2019, 02:38:10 PM

Quote from: Quickseller on May 21, 2019, 02:35:47 PM

Quote from: Lauda

It's quite murky. It's easy on random shit-posting baboons in pay-per-post campaigns. Say I had forgotten to include that source today. Would you have banned me? Note: Even though I wear a signature, I am not required to do anything thus making 1 or 1000 posts makes no difference. Financial motivation is a no-go here, and I most certainly did not intend to pass that as "my own work". So?

Nonsense. if you have a paid sig that doesn’t require any specific number of posts, if you don’t make sufficient numbers of posts the company will decide to stop paying you to advertise. This is true even if you don’t have a specific post count expectation.

Nobody asked you anything you filthy degenerate. What I wrote is objectively true, I generate more advertisement without posting anything than most people do by actively posting. Go back to your account-farming pajeet hole.

Me thinks lauda has plagiarized in the past.

If this is true, if the administration is not running the plagiarism bot themselves, the question becomes if the person running the bot is trustworthy enough to report lauda. It would probably be a good idea to have the bot go back and check the 3000+ posts lauda deleted on his alt account and any other alt accounts he has.

Quote from: suchmoon on May 21, 2019, 03:38:58 PM

Quote from: Lauda on May 21, 2019, 03:24:11 PM

It did have the quote I think.

I that case no sane person would report it and certainly no mod would ban for it.

I think I have my answer Roll Eyes

philipma1957

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Quote from: Quickseller on May 21, 2019, 02:35:47 PM

Quote from: Lauda

It's quite murky. It's easy on random shit-posting baboons in pay-per-post campaigns. Say I had forgotten to include that source today. Would you have banned me? Note: Even though I wear a signature, I am not required to do anything thus making 1 or 1000 posts makes no difference. Financial motivation is a no-go here, and I most certainly did not intend to pass that as "my own work". So?

Nonsense. if you have a paid sig that doesn’t require any specific number of posts, if you don’t make sufficient numbers of posts the company will decide to stop paying you to advertise. This is true even if you don’t have a specific post count expectation.

well some what true but not exactly.

When you have 30,000 posts like lauda or me the signature gets 30,000 billboard spots.

I have multiple locked and pinned threads. So if I were to sell my signature and not post for a week I am pretty sure people would see a lot of that signature.

For years I left simple mining in my signature at zero charge to him.

I am pretty sure my signature was viewed 1,000,000 plus times for him and for my quote that alt coins are good for cryptocurrency.

I did it for zero fees. I don't know how many people used his service due to my signature. Pretty sure he does not know either. But the point is lauda has a

lot of posts. As do I. I have 9 alt coin threads alone with edit over 500,000 ~~1,000,000~~ views when added together

9 has 759 views
8 has 69,000 +
7 has 33,000 +
6 has 79,000 +
5 has 46,000 +
4 has 108,000 +
3 has 41,000 +
2 has 147,000 +
1 has 50,000 +

total over 573,000 views.

Lauda

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Quote from: shillfudder+temp on May 21, 2019, 03:48:59 PM

You want me to tag you now, or now?

Quote from: suchmoon on May 21, 2019, 03:38:58 PM

Quote from: Lauda on May 21, 2019, 03:24:11 PM

It did have the quote I think.

I that case no sane person would report it and certainly no mod would ban for it.

Fair deal. Thanks for answering.

shillfudder+temp

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Quote from: actmyname on July 20, 2017, 08:52:05 AM

If it was meant to be a quote then you would have sourced it and quoted it.

Quote from: Pearls Before Swine on July 21, 2017, 02:40:28 AM

You did nothing to attribute that copy paste job to its original source. It's not that you forgot.

Quote from: hilariousetc on July 21, 2017, 03:11:32 AM

Copying and pasting is pretty cut and dry whereas scamming isn't always or will require a lot of time and effort from staff to investigate, hence why it's largely left up to the community police.

Cut and dry ban

Quote from: Lauda on January 17, 2019, 04:54:06 AM

Quote

The Queen of Cats guides us. The Queen of Cats teaches us. The Queen of Cats protects us. In your light we thrive. In your mercy we are sheltered. In your wisdom we are humbled. We live only to serve. Our lives are yours.

Source.

suchmoon

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Quote from: Lauda on May 21, 2019, 03:24:11 PM

It did have the quote I think.

In that case no sane person would report it and certainly no mod would ban for it.

Topic: Plagiarism should remain a zero-tolerance bannable offense (Read 1154 times)