Reserved! (Because all the cool kids are doing it...)
I have an Armory Wallet Paper Backup version 1.35I do not have access to the computer used to create it, now how to use the BTC?
Topic: PLEASE Backup your wallet! A Paper Backup is *Forever*! - page 2. (Read 54277 times)
I do not have access to the computer used to create it, now how to use the BTC?
Reserved! (Because all the cool kids are doing it...)
I have an Armory Wallet Paper Backup version 1.35I do not have access to the computer used to create it, now how to use the BTC?
Hi,
as a new Armory user, I'm concerned with the paper backups - specifically the fact that they are unencrypted.
While I positively _love_ the m-of-n backups, especially with Secure Print, allowing me to seed m-of-n backups among trusted friends, I need an encrypted paper backup as well, and there isn't any. My only option here is to use the Secure Print option and memorize the code sequence, which I can't trust myself to remember when I need it.
Without an encrypted paper backup, the problem of securing the online computer against leak and loss merely moves the problem to securing a piece of paper against leak and loss. Since I typically need to have them in different locations for disaster-recovery reasons, that means that my paper backup is by far the weakest link in the chain, as it's not where I can physically protect it and anybody who spots it with a camera has access to all my funds - far from the case with my online computers, not to mention my offline ones.
It's important here that the actions you take to protect against data leak typically increase your risk for data loss, and vice versa. But both a leak and a loss result in loss of funds. With encrypted paper backups, there would be additional defense in depth, allowing for stronger strategies.
Is there a possibility of having an encrypted paper backup in the future? I'm not really comfortable with a piece of paper that gives anybody access to my vault without further conditions.
Cheers,
Rick
(who probably posted in the completely wrong thread, still being rather new to Bitcointalk. Feel free to move this post, but please inform me if you do, so I can follow replies)
as a new Armory user, I'm concerned with the paper backups - specifically the fact that they are unencrypted.
While I positively _love_ the m-of-n backups, especially with Secure Print, allowing me to seed m-of-n backups among trusted friends, I need an encrypted paper backup as well, and there isn't any. My only option here is to use the Secure Print option and memorize the code sequence, which I can't trust myself to remember when I need it.
Without an encrypted paper backup, the problem of securing the online computer against leak and loss merely moves the problem to securing a piece of paper against leak and loss. Since I typically need to have them in different locations for disaster-recovery reasons, that means that my paper backup is by far the weakest link in the chain, as it's not where I can physically protect it and anybody who spots it with a camera has access to all my funds - far from the case with my online computers, not to mention my offline ones.
It's important here that the actions you take to protect against data leak typically increase your risk for data loss, and vice versa. But both a leak and a loss result in loss of funds. With encrypted paper backups, there would be additional defense in depth, allowing for stronger strategies.
Is there a possibility of having an encrypted paper backup in the future? I'm not really comfortable with a piece of paper that gives anybody access to my vault without further conditions.
Cheers,
Rick
(who probably posted in the completely wrong thread, still being rather new to Bitcointalk. Feel free to move this post, but please inform me if you do, so I can follow replies)
If you are already using M of N backups, why don't you simply use an encrypted digital backup(s) in place of an encrypted paper backup? You have the M of N to protect you from forgetting your own password and data loss. If your wallet is valuable enough, you could buy a robust storage media like an M-Disc. It should serve most purposes that an encrypted paper backup would serve.
Armory probably will never have encrypted paper backups (beyond the secure print option). Etotheipi has been pretty firm on his stance there.
Hi,
as a new Armory user, I'm concerned with the paper backups - specifically the fact that they are unencrypted.
While I positively _love_ the m-of-n backups, especially with Secure Print, allowing me to seed m-of-n backups among trusted friends, I need an encrypted paper backup as well, and there isn't any. My only option here is to use the Secure Print option and memorize the code sequence, which I can't trust myself to remember when I need it.
Without an encrypted paper backup, the problem of securing the online computer against leak and loss merely moves the problem to securing a piece of paper against leak and loss. Since I typically need to have them in different locations for disaster-recovery reasons, that means that my paper backup is by far the weakest link in the chain, as it's not where I can physically protect it and anybody who spots it with a camera has access to all my funds - far from the case with my online computers, not to mention my offline ones.
It's important here that the actions you take to protect against data leak typically increase your risk for data loss, and vice versa. But both a leak and a loss result in loss of funds. With encrypted paper backups, there would be additional defense in depth, allowing for stronger strategies.
Is there a possibility of having an encrypted paper backup in the future? I'm not really comfortable with a piece of paper that gives anybody access to my vault without further conditions.
Cheers,
Rick
(who probably posted in the completely wrong thread, still being rather new to Bitcointalk. Feel free to move this post, but please inform me if you do, so I can follow replies)
as a new Armory user, I'm concerned with the paper backups - specifically the fact that they are unencrypted.
While I positively _love_ the m-of-n backups, especially with Secure Print, allowing me to seed m-of-n backups among trusted friends, I need an encrypted paper backup as well, and there isn't any. My only option here is to use the Secure Print option and memorize the code sequence, which I can't trust myself to remember when I need it.
Without an encrypted paper backup, the problem of securing the online computer against leak and loss merely moves the problem to securing a piece of paper against leak and loss. Since I typically need to have them in different locations for disaster-recovery reasons, that means that my paper backup is by far the weakest link in the chain, as it's not where I can physically protect it and anybody who spots it with a camera has access to all my funds - far from the case with my online computers, not to mention my offline ones.
It's important here that the actions you take to protect against data leak typically increase your risk for data loss, and vice versa. But both a leak and a loss result in loss of funds. With encrypted paper backups, there would be additional defense in depth, allowing for stronger strategies.
Is there a possibility of having an encrypted paper backup in the future? I'm not really comfortable with a piece of paper that gives anybody access to my vault without further conditions.
Cheers,
Rick
(who probably posted in the completely wrong thread, still being rather new to Bitcointalk. Feel free to move this post, but please inform me if you do, so I can follow replies)
If you have no backup or only a digital backup, and you get hit by a bus, your family will not be able to recover your coins -- they will be lost forever.
Lmao
That's the informal fallacy of accident
"It doesn't matter how many addresses you use -- they're all derived from the information on that paper backup!"
I've a question about paper backup, as there is nearly a new address created for each transaction we can reach a pretty good amount of address inside one wallet (on the example screenshot we see 50 address). Is there a limit on how many address one (paper) backup can restore ? There should be a limit otherwise every wallet will had to "reserve" all possible address in order to be sure that no one use the same address that you could potentialy "create or release (?)" from on wallet in the future.... Not sure to be clear.
I've a question about paper backup, as there is nearly a new address created for each transaction we can reach a pretty good amount of address inside one wallet (on the example screenshot we see 50 address). Is there a limit on how many address one (paper) backup can restore ? There should be a limit otherwise every wallet will had to "reserve" all possible address in order to be sure that no one use the same address that you could potentialy "create or release (?)" from on wallet in the future.... Not sure to be clear.
There is no limit. The paper backup produces an essentially infinite chain of addresses. The solar system will collapse on itself before you could generate enough addresses to risk generating the same private keys as anyone else.
Go ahead and use a quintillion addresses (if you have time to generate that many). You are at no risk of collisions. And all will be protected with the paper backup.
"It doesn't matter how many addresses you use -- they're all derived from the information on that paper backup!"
I've a question about paper backup, as there is nearly a new address created for each transaction we can reach a pretty good amount of address inside one wallet (on the example screenshot we see 50 address). Is there a limit on how many address one (paper) backup can restore ? There should be a limit otherwise every wallet will had to "reserve" all possible address in order to be sure that no one use the same address that you could potentialy "create or release (?)" from on wallet in the future.... Not sure to be clear.
I've a question about paper backup, as there is nearly a new address created for each transaction we can reach a pretty good amount of address inside one wallet (on the example screenshot we see 50 address). Is there a limit on how many address one (paper) backup can restore ? There should be a limit otherwise every wallet will had to "reserve" all possible address in order to be sure that no one use the same address that you could potentialy "create or release (?)" from on wallet in the future.... Not sure to be clear.
Great overview, thanks.
One thing that's been bugging me is how to import public addresses from our old satoshi clients that exported in CSV... I understand it would take importing that wallet itself to get at the receiving public addresses; but the sender's public addresses? Any way to get those in Armory's address book?
Looking forward to the wizard. It will be very welcome by more than just noobs.
One thing that's been bugging me is how to import public addresses from our old satoshi clients that exported in CSV... I understand it would take importing that wallet itself to get at the receiving public addresses; but the sender's public addresses? Any way to get those in Armory's address book?
Looking forward to the wizard. It will be very welcome by more than just noobs.
Reserved! (Because all the cool kids are doing it...)
I have recently had a large volume of email from users contact me with lost wallets and/or forgotten encryption passphrases. It makes me realize Armory needs to be more aggressive about getting users to make a paper backup. Or any backup!
If you have no backup at all, and your hard drive crashes, you will lose your coins forever.
If you have no backup or only a digital backup, and you forgot your encryption passphrase, you will lose your coins forever.
If you have no backup or only a digital backup, and you get hit by a bus, your family will not be able to recover your coins -- they will be lost forever.
On the other hand, unlike the main client (Bitcoin-Qt), you only need one backup ever. It doesn't matter how many addresses you use -- they're all derived from the information on that paper backup!
This isn't like a bank website where you can click a button to recover your password if you forget it. Your password is the encryption key for your wallet, thus your wallet is permanently encrypted (i.e. useless) if you forget your passphrase. This is what makes it secure against malware/viruses that copy your wallet files, but also keeps you out if you forget it!
Luckily, Armory has the ultimate solution for this: Paper Backups! Use it!
Why paper? Because a sheet of paper in a safe will last decades! If the text is readable, the backup is good. Compare to a USB key or CD, which is not guaranteed to work after a couple years... it might work ... it will probably work... but why risk it when you know paper will absolutely work?
A paper backup will not protect imported keys. Please use the "Backup Individual Keys" dialog. If you don't know what this means, you haven't done it. This is also why it is recommended you sweep keys instead of importing -- keys are rarely reused unless you explicitly decide to do so, and sweeping will not require you to print/secure more backup material.
To reiterate: if you only have an encrypted wallet on your computer, and only have encrypted backups, you essentially have a brain-wallet. If something terrible happens to you, your Bitcoins go to the grave with you. If you are simply forgetful, you have no more coins. If you want to use a digital backup exclusively, it's highly recommended you write down the password and keep it with the backup!
UPDATE (12 Mar, 2013): When the new wallets are released in a couple months, I will be revamping the backup system in Armory -- it will become more of a "Backup Center", or a "Backup Wizard" to help users figure out exactly how they should secure their funds. This will include new options for backing up, including fragmented backups (with a GUI). This information is provided here to fill the gap until the new wallets and backup center are complete.
If you have no backup at all, and your hard drive crashes, you will lose your coins forever.
If you have no backup or only a digital backup, and you forgot your encryption passphrase, you will lose your coins forever.
If you have no backup or only a digital backup, and you get hit by a bus, your family will not be able to recover your coins -- they will be lost forever.
On the other hand, unlike the main client (Bitcoin-Qt), you only need one backup ever. It doesn't matter how many addresses you use -- they're all derived from the information on that paper backup!
This isn't like a bank website where you can click a button to recover your password if you forget it. Your password is the encryption key for your wallet, thus your wallet is permanently encrypted (i.e. useless) if you forget your passphrase. This is what makes it secure against malware/viruses that copy your wallet files, but also keeps you out if you forget it!
Luckily, Armory has the ultimate solution for this: Paper Backups! Use it!
Why paper? Because a sheet of paper in a safe will last decades! If the text is readable, the backup is good. Compare to a USB key or CD, which is not guaranteed to work after a couple years... it might work ... it will probably work... but why risk it when you know paper will absolutely work?
- (1) Having a paper backup guarantees you will be able to recover your entire wallet, any time in the future, for any reason (except for imported keys; if you don't know what that means, you don't have them).
- (2) All paper backups are unencrypted. The biggest threats for most users are digital/virtual, not physical threats. It's also because an encrypted backup is useless if you forget your passphrase! You may not need your backup for a couple years -- most users forget passwords within a couple months.
- (3) If you do not have a working printer, please copy it by hand with pen and paper!
- (3a) The QR code on the backup is only a copy of the four lines of text. It is not needed for the backup to be useful, it's simply there for convenience.
- (4) Please protect your paper backup. Because it's unencrypted, anyone accessing it can restore your wallet and send themself your coins. If you are concerned about physical security, put it in a sealed envelope in a safe-deposit box at the bank.
- (5) A digital backup is encrypted if your wallet is encrypted. This will protect you if your harddrive dies, or your laptop is stolen (import the wallet, type your passphrase, send all your coins to a new wallet). But this doesn't help you if you need the paper backup because you forgot your passphrase!
- (6) If you have imported private keys, please use the "Backup Individual Keys" dialog, and copy the data to a text editor to print it.
- (7) Use the "Import Wallet" feature to restore any kind of backup. Either in the "Wallets" menu, or in the upper-right corner of the main window
- (8) By keeping an [unencrypted] paper backup in a safe-deposit box, your family will be able to recover all your coins if something terrible happens to you.
A paper backup will not protect imported keys. Please use the "Backup Individual Keys" dialog. If you don't know what this means, you haven't done it. This is also why it is recommended you sweep keys instead of importing -- keys are rarely reused unless you explicitly decide to do so, and sweeping will not require you to print/secure more backup material.
To reiterate: if you only have an encrypted wallet on your computer, and only have encrypted backups, you essentially have a brain-wallet. If something terrible happens to you, your Bitcoins go to the grave with you. If you are simply forgetful, you have no more coins. If you want to use a digital backup exclusively, it's highly recommended you write down the password and keep it with the backup!
UPDATE (12 Mar, 2013): When the new wallets are released in a couple months, I will be revamping the backup system in Armory -- it will become more of a "Backup Center", or a "Backup Wizard" to help users figure out exactly how they should secure their funds. This will include new options for backing up, including fragmented backups (with a GUI). This information is provided here to fill the gap until the new wallets and backup center are complete.
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