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Topic: Please Read!! Help Stop This Madness. (Read 7666 times)

sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
December 05, 2013, 03:43:58 PM
Idiot not understanding what running costs are.
Idiot not knowing how to read a graphic.
Idiot not knowing what a deficit with - (minus) means.
Hello, i am Dr. Sbaitso. Would you like to tell me more about your problems?
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 501
in defi we trust
December 05, 2013, 03:22:07 PM

Ok, then tell me just one little thing. Why was the network deficit in April a lot bigger? Graphics cards were a lot more expensive in April? No? Oh right, there was a price surge of BTC.
I think there is an obvious idiot here, and i got a hunch it aint me.

Idiot not knowing how to read a graphic.
Idiot not knowing what a deficit with - (minus) means.

Time to hit the ignore button.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
December 05, 2013, 02:24:58 PM
Ok, then tell me just one little thing. Why was the network deficit in April a lot bigger? Graphics cards were a lot more expensive in April? No? Oh right, there was a price surge of BTC.
I think there is an obvious idiot here, and i got a hunch it aint me.

Wrong hunch.
And to end it once for all.
Taking into account those 42k , they will cover the running cost for enough knc miners to bring the difficulty to 21PH.
Do the math or go back to your cave since i got a felling you like to troll.
Ok, 21PH at KNC (PREORDERS! for Q1/Q2) Neptunes have 4.33GH/s (13k value for 3TH/s). In other words 21PH/s cost 91M. ($13k/3TH/s=$4.33/GH/s and 21,000,000GH/s*4.33$/GH/s=$91M).
$91M/$42k/day=2166day=72months. Now, those $42k were the ATH for transaction income for now, not the average.
I did the math. Back to you.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 501
in defi we trust
December 05, 2013, 02:09:28 PM
So you're telling me that your link
https://blockchain.info/de/charts/network-deficit
, labeled network deficit and explained as
Network Deficit Per Day - Shows difference between transaction fees and cost of bitcoin mining.
 
is "the simple difference of payouts per day (calculating BTC in USD) vs income generated via transactions"

Sir , You are obvious an Idiot.
Ok, then tell me just one little thing. Why was the network deficit in April a lot bigger? Graphics cards were a lot more expensive in April? No? Oh right, there was a price surge of BTC.
I think there is an obvious idiot here, and i got a hunch it aint me.

Wrong hunch.
And to end it once for all.
Taking into account those 42k , they will cover the running cost for enough knc miners to bring the difficulty to 21PH.
Do the math or go back to your cave since i got a felling you like to troll.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
December 05, 2013, 01:59:26 PM
And they do. I won't even explain how, you should already know as sure of yourself as you sound.
Ok, then again. At $25k/day on average that about $750k/month. And the mining manufacturers sell far, far more equipment. Obviously, since the big part of the mining income is still block generation income.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1278
December 05, 2013, 01:53:41 PM
Is this really necessary? It's up to each individual miner if mining is worth it. Leave it to them.
Its currently basicly about long term sustainability, not short term bubbles. The actual value of the bitcoin network is as a secure transaction network. And the real value are the transaction fees. Those have to cover the costs for the mining network long term.
And they do. I won't even explain how, you should already know as sure of yourself as you sound.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
December 05, 2013, 01:51:56 PM
Is this really necessary? It's up to each individual miner if mining is worth it. Leave it to them.
Its currently basicly about long term sustainability, not short term bubbles. The actual value of the bitcoin network is as a secure transaction network. And the real value are the transaction fees. Those have to cover the costs for the mining network long term.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1278
December 05, 2013, 01:46:11 PM
Is this really necessary? It's up to each individual miner if mining is worth it. Leave it to them.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
December 05, 2013, 01:45:20 PM
#99
So you're telling me that your link
https://blockchain.info/de/charts/network-deficit
, labeled network deficit and explained as
Network Deficit Per Day - Shows difference between transaction fees and cost of bitcoin mining.
 
is "the simple difference of payouts per day (calculating BTC in USD) vs income generated via transactions"

Sir , You are obvious an Idiot.
Ok, then tell me just one little thing. Why was the network deficit in April a lot bigger? Graphics cards were a lot more expensive in April? No? Oh right, there was a price surge of BTC.
I think there is an obvious idiot here, and i got a hunch it aint me.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 501
in defi we trust
December 05, 2013, 01:40:45 PM
#98
Your link 
Network Deficit Per Day - Shows difference between transaction fees and cost of bitcoin mining.

The cost of mining on blockchain is based on gpu numbers.

No, its the simple difference of payouts per day (calculating BTC in USD) vs income generated via transactions.
If you dont believe me, just compare it to the following, that the real actual income from usefullness. Yes, the transaction fees have never exceeded those 42K USD/day. And thats not even close to the "income" generated for block rewards. Block rewards are going to die with time. Transaction fees are the long term sustainability. And they are not catching up nearly fast enough.

So you're telling me that your link
https://blockchain.info/de/charts/network-deficit
, labeled network deficit and explained as
Network Deficit Per Day - Shows difference between transaction fees and cost of bitcoin mining.
 
is "the simple difference of payouts per day (calculating BTC in USD) vs income generated via transactions"

Sir , You are obvious an Idiot.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
December 05, 2013, 01:33:13 PM
#97
Your link 
Network Deficit Per Day - Shows difference between transaction fees and cost of bitcoin mining.

The cost of mining on blockchain is based on gpu numbers.

No, its the simple difference of payouts per day (calculating BTC in USD) vs income generated via transactions.
If you dont believe me, just compare it to the following, that the real actual income from usefullness. Yes, the transaction fees have never exceeded those 42K USD/day. And thats not even close to the "income" generated for block rewards. Block rewards are going to die with time. Transaction fees are the long term sustainability. And they are not catching up nearly fast enough.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 501
in defi we trust
December 05, 2013, 01:27:30 PM
#96
Go to that page , do the math and then say you were wrong:
"The income from transactions fees is still very low, not enough to maintain the network at current rates by far."
I can do a lot better. Back to you.
Your link 
Network Deficit Per Day - Shows difference between transaction fees and cost of bitcoin mining.

The cost of mining on blockchain is based on gpu numbers.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
December 05, 2013, 01:18:33 PM
#95
Go to that page , do the math and then say you were wrong:
"The income from transactions fees is still very low, not enough to maintain the network at current rates by far."
I can do a lot better. Back to you.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 501
in defi we trust
December 05, 2013, 01:10:14 PM
#94
Why din't you told me in the first place your blind?
From your link:
Quote
To be able to calculate that, you need two simple assumptions:
- overall miners are rational and will only keep buying hardware until they reach the point of marginal profitability within a given period (investment horizon).
- Likewise, ASIC vendors will keep producing and selling chips as long as  its profitable, ie, as long as miners are wiling to pay a price above their marginal costs.
Ok, so miners will buy hardware as long as it as revenure>cost. Revenue is BTC over lifetime. Simple as that.
And ASIC vendors will build as long as miners pay more than production cost.

Fact 1: No miner you can actually currently buy (direct order) will make more than you pay for it, e.g. BFL.
Fact 2: No miner you can pre-order is guaranteed to be delivered on time, nor what the difficulty will be by then (unless you where to somehow know the total shipments in PH/s), nor how much a BTC will be worth by then.
And you call me blind???


Go to that page , do the math and then say you were wrong:
"The income from transactions fees is still very low, not enough to maintain the network at current rates by far."
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
December 05, 2013, 01:07:41 PM
#93
Why din't you told me in the first place your blind?
From your link:
Quote
To be able to calculate that, you need two simple assumptions:
- overall miners are rational and will only keep buying hardware until they reach the point of marginal profitability within a given period (investment horizon).
- Likewise, ASIC vendors will keep producing and selling chips as long as  its profitable, ie, as long as miners are wiling to pay a price above their marginal costs.
Ok, so miners will buy hardware as long as it as revenure>cost. Revenue is BTC over lifetime. Simple as that.
And ASIC vendors will build as long as miners pay more than production cost.

Fact 1: No miner you can actually currently buy (direct order) will make more than you pay for it, e.g. BFL.
Fact 2: No miner you can pre-order is guaranteed to be delivered on time, nor what the difficulty will be by then (unless you where to somehow know the total shipments in PH/s), nor how much a BTC will be worth by then.
And you call me blind???
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 501
in defi we trust
December 05, 2013, 12:54:32 PM
#92
This shit has been debated so many times in the forums it's getting annoyingly.
One of them:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/finally-a-correct-endgame-difficulty-calculator-295270
Thanks for providing a link that proves my point.

Why din't you told me in the first place your blind?
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
December 05, 2013, 12:48:17 PM
#91
This shit has been debated so many times in the forums it's getting annoyingly.
One of them:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/finally-a-correct-endgame-difficulty-calculator-295270
Thanks for providing a link that proves my point.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 501
in defi we trust
December 05, 2013, 12:40:31 PM
#90
If mining will be less profitable with a projected difficulty increase and miners stop buying hardware , where will that projected increase come from?
Dumb people. A lot of people fail a basic math. Why do you think people still buy first gen asics or even block eruptors on ebay?

1) Difficulty increases only if people are buying more miners.
2a) Difficulty is so high that people are not covering their running cost , people with low efficency miners stop and it's worth again mining for people with low costs.
2b) Difficulty is high that it's not worth buying miners but worth running them. Difficulty won't +/-. Until a new cheap miner emerges and we go to 2a.

This shit has been debated so many times in the forums it's getting annoyingly.
One of them:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/finally-a-correct-endgame-difficulty-calculator-295270
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
December 05, 2013, 12:33:42 PM
#89
If mining will be less profitable with a projected difficulty increase and miners stop buying hardware , where will that projected increase come from?
Dumb people. A lot of people fail a basic math. Why do you think people still buy first gen asics or even block eruptors on ebay?
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 501
in defi we trust
December 05, 2013, 12:22:17 PM
#88
Also please let me know how much PH will that 108M/month buy. Around 20PH? 3 times more than we have?
Are you assuming a constant rate of BTC/TH or BTC/PH?
Thats the beginners mistake, as long as difficulty increases you will have a decline. And 20PH for 108M? Now, lemme se, where do you get 20PH for $108M? Or 20GH for $108, or 0.18GH/$ or 5.55$/GH.
Yeah, thats what you get on pre orders. And checking mining calculators like genesisblock those devices might, or might not, ROI. And given that current devices, and lets face it, 90%+ of current hasing power comes from asics, the devices in use currently are mostly first gen asics. Only the early orders are gonna ROI. Quite a couple of people are gonna have to pay for the privilege of mining.
But thats actually pretty irrelevant, since the mining industy will obviously converge towards the profit generated from mining. If mining equipment generates money out of nothing you buy it. If it generates less than you pay for it, you dont. The only mining equipment that still has a chance of profiting is pre orders, which is basicly the same as gambling. The size of the hardware mining industy is pretty excactly the same as the profit generated from mining. Yes, things are that simple at times.


If mining will be less profitable with a projected difficulty increase and miners stop buying hardware , where will that projected increase come from?
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