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Topic: Pocket Dice – The first realistic dice game - page 27. (Read 82237 times)

legendary
Activity: 1876
Merit: 1303
DiceSites.com owner
These complicated provably fair algos, which dice sites now use to cheat players, are the reason I am now more prone to bet on blockchain based provably fair gambling sites like *removed*
That is just false. Almost all popular dice sites use the "nonce implementation". PocketDice is pretty much literally the only dice site with a "complicated provably fair algo" (because with 2 actual dice numbers - it is a little bit more complicated.) I also think it's inappropriate to post a site (which you look affiliated with) in this discussion.

In addition I would still trust PocketDice more than a completely new website, that spams in competitor's topic's, despite of the provably fair implementation.

edit: after looking at your "bitcoinbetting" site, it has a 50% HE. So no, thank you, we don't need scams like that.
jr. member
Activity: 115
Merit: 4
PocketDice is indeed not really provably fair and this has been known for 1+ year: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/questionopinions-on-pocketdices-claim-of-provably-fair-1077905

Easiest example: imagine a player is always playing on "Under 6". For the next bet PocketDice could give you literally the following "initial random numbers":

Code:
[6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6]

You obviously cannot win your "Under 6" bet. They shuffle those numbers with your clientseed, but if you only shuffle those 6's, still the result won't be "Under 6". You can also afterwards check the hash and see that it were really those numbers.. but that doesn't really help you much either.
These complicated provably fair algos, which dice sites now use to cheat players, are the reason I am now more prone to bet on blockchain based provably fair gambling sites like www.BitcoinBetting.website.
legendary
Activity: 1876
Merit: 1303
DiceSites.com owner
I have found fault with the provably fair on this site.



I'm curious to see what others have to say about this since according to your feedback you have a history against casinos in general.
Yes, coldblooded seems sometimes like a troll. But he is right here. PocketDice is indeed not really provably fair and this has been known for 1+ year: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/questionopinions-on-pocketdices-claim-of-provably-fair-1077905

Easiest example: imagine a player is always playing on "Under 6". For the next bet PocketDice could give you literally the following "initial random numbers":

Code:
[6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6]

You obviously cannot win your "Under 6" bet. They shuffle those numbers with your clientseed, but if you only shuffle those 6's, still the result won't be "Under 6". You can also afterwards check the hash and see that it were really those numbers.. but that doesn't really help you much either.

This is an extreme example and the real way would be more subtle (not all the same number lol.)




I still don't think they actually do this, because if the players would find out, the player could actually cheat it too (bet "Under 12" lot of times and then "Over 11" for a nice 35.3x win lol.) But still provably fair is not about "well they probably are fair", it's about having a solid implementation that is completely provably fair. So yes, it is disappointing they didn't fix this after more than a year.
hero member
Activity: 519
Merit: 500
I have found fault with the provably fair on this site.



I'm curious to see what others have to say about this since according to your feedback you have a history against casinos in general.
newbie
Activity: 51
Merit: 0
I have found fault with the provably fair on this site.

It feeds 30 numbers (not provably fair) into the provably fair shuffling mechanism which uses the client seed to shuffle the already pre-determined numbers fed into it by pocketdice.

This is not provably fair.

And just to be clear, the point is that the numbers are chosen before being combined with the client seed and before being fed into the provably fair shuffling algorithm,  therefore, these numbers could be pre-chosen by pocketdice and there is no way to prove that to be true or untrue, thus, not provably fair.   Since the numbers being chosen are not provably fair, pocket dice can make them whatever they want.  

This is why the site is not provably fair.  Period.  Done.  End of story.  Site is not provably fair.


The following shows how this type of "provably fair" fraud can be used to manipulate outcomes.... however, none of the following evidence is necessary to prove that the site is unfair, that is already proven by their own admission on their provably fair information page in the first few lines.   Read carefully.  Smiley

------------
Example of how this could be used in a way to cheat you  (contrary to pocketdices many solid promises that its impossible for them to cheat you because of this great mechanism they have in place.     Why shouldn't you believe them,  they said its fair right?   WRONG!)
------------



For example,   this is the first "over 11" I analyzed, but had the same results as the "over 6" data I've been analyzing.

The 30 numbers pocketdice fed into the shuffling mechanism were ..

(and not sure if you have to be logged in to view this, but here is where I'm getting this data https://pocketdice.io/statistics/574ff765ff92745b238b46a5 or see screenshots below)

[2, 3, 1, 5, 3, 1, 6, 1, 3, 6, 3, 4, 2, 1, 1, 5, 4, 2, 4, 6, 3, 3, 1, 4, 4, 2, 5, 6, 4, 3]

Again, these numbers are fed to the shuffling algorithm and combined with the client seed by their own admission.  These numbers can be anything pocketdice wants them to be and this is because they are not part of the provably fair mechanism.  They are created by pocketdice servers and the "provably fair" mechanism simply shuffles the numbers pocket dice picked.

If you analyze the numbers from this bet, my odds of hitting a 12 were 6 in 435, or 1.379%.   The actual odds of rolling two dice and hitting a 12 are 1 in 36 or 2.777%.   Obviously a major difference.    But the point is, this site is not provably fair as it claims to be, you can check yourself.   Total up the dice as I have, and you will see that when you make a bet, the odds you think you are getting, you really are not getting, pocketdice is setting different odds before it even goes into the provably fair shuffle.

I also wonder why the need for 30 numbers.  And if you need to shuffle 30 numbers, why not use an equal amount of each number to make the shuffle fair?    Why feed in a "random" or arbitrary (or meticulously pre-composed) set of numbers?   The only purpose is deception.  

Here is how you can break down the numbers on any bet for yourself.   Go to the info for the bet and click on the "stats for nerds" link.   You will be shown the 30 numbers pocketdice chose for that bet, and further below those numbers will be shuffled to give you the outcome of your bet.  


1
1
1
1
1
1

2
2
2
2

3
3
3
3
3
3
3

4
4
4
4
4
4

5
5
5

6
6
6
6

2 = 15 ways    3.45 %
3 = 24 ways    5.52 %
4 = 48 ways  11.03 %
5 = 64 ways  14.71 %  
6 = 63 Ways  14.48 %
7 = 78 Ways  17.93 %
8 = 52 Ways  11.95 %  
9 = 46 Ways  10.57 %
10 = 27 Ways 6.21 %
11 = 12 Ways  2.76 %
12 = 6 ways    1.38 %

BET WAS ON 'OVER 11' (IN OTHER WORDS ROLL A 12)

.01379  (Pocketdices Chance to Roll 6 in 435)<--WHAT??
.02777  (Actual Chance to Roll on two dice 1 in 36)



I WANT MY MONEY BACK POCKETDICE



http://s33.postimg.org/hf0yvt8in/SS_PD_UNFAIR.png

---

---


This bet I made immediately before the one above.  It's even worse.

[2, 5, 3, 1, 4, 5, 1, 6, 3, 3, 3, 5, 4, 5, 2, 5, 3, 2, 5, 4, 2, 5, 1, 3, 2, 4, 2, 1, 6, 2]

1
1
1
1

2
2
2
2
2
2
2

3
3
3
3
3
3

4
4
4
4

5
5
5
5
5
5
5

6
6

2 = 6 ways    1.38 %
3 = 28 ways   6.44 %
4 = 45 ways  10.34 %
5 = 58 ways  13.33 %
6 = 71 Ways  16.32 %
7 = 81 Ways  18.62 %
8 = 62 Ways  14.25 %
9 = 40 Ways   9.20 %
10 = 29 Ways  6.67 %
11 = 14 Ways  3.22 %
12 = 1 way    0.23 %   <-- my bet coincidentally

BET WAS ON 'OVER 11' (IN OTHER WORDS ROLL A 12)

.00229 (Pockedices Chance to Roll a 12?   1 in 435)<--WHAT??
.02777 (Actual Chance to Roll on two dice 1 in 36)


http://s33.postimg.org/n3hdmw1jz/ss_pd_rape.png
sr. member
Activity: 342
Merit: 250
Hey Hey!
Check this out! Our players are the best gamblers ever and they totally deserve to win a lot. Just give a quick look on this table and you'll see there is no problem to win huge amount of REAL money. Current exchange rate is more than 500$ per 1 BTC so don’t waste your time and become our new leader - win THOUSANDS of dollars right now!

And don't forget: one roll can change your life!
newbie
Activity: 31
Merit: 0
i'm a big fan of PocketDice! Thank you for such an awesome site!
I've wagered 89BTC this month, won tournament and spent a lot of great time here. Thanks!
sr. member
Activity: 342
Merit: 250

Am I missing something or this shouldn't happen?


Hi there sionsandman!

Please PM me your username and dates when those rolls were made so i could investigate this issue.
Or write us at [email protected]. Normally we respond in a couple of hours. Will do our best to figure out if anything is wrong quickly.

Cheers

Hi

I see this is not always correctly updated.

The correct list is always on "My Statistics" page.

Thanks

When you hover over My bets or All bets, the table stops refreshing and is paused, but you keep on rolling (say, if you're running autobets). When you remove your mouse from the stats table, it starts refreshing again. But the data for the pause period will appear there only after you refresh the page. Though if you use My Statistics section from the menu, you will see all your rolls there.

We are aware of this confusing issue and will fix it in the future updates of the game.

Thanks for playing Pocket Dice!
hero member
Activity: 519
Merit: 500

Am I missing something or this shouldn't happen?


Hi there sionsandman!

Please PM me your username and dates when those rolls were made so i could investigate this issue.
Or write us at [email protected]. Normally we respond in a couple of hours. Will do our best to figure out if anything is wrong quickly.

Cheers

Hi

I see this is not always correctly updated.

The correct list is always on "My Statistics" page.

Thanks
sr. member
Activity: 342
Merit: 250

Am I missing something or this shouldn't happen?


Hi there sionsandman!

Please PM me your username and dates when those rolls were made so i could investigate this issue.
Or write us at [email protected]. Normally we respond in a couple of hours. Will do our best to figure out if anything is wrong quickly.

Cheers
hero member
Activity: 519
Merit: 500

Am I missing something or this shouldn't happen?

hero member
Activity: 519
Merit: 500

Pocket Dice,

Can you explain what happened here:

As it's easy to understand I was playing auto and increasing bet by 100% on loss.

sr. member
Activity: 342
Merit: 250
Hey. Was just wondering how it was possible that your game is featured as part of casino.bitcoin.com's page?  Did you make some type of partnership/deal with them?

Hi,

We have a white label version of the game and you may use it on any website. As joksim299 correctly mentioned, the SoftSwiss casinos are fully integrated, as well as BTC Casino. Some other integrations are coming shortly.
sr. member
Activity: 342
Merit: 250
awesome dice. love the interface.

Thanks! We appreciate that!
legendary
Activity: 2198
Merit: 1014
Bitdice is scam scam scammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Hey. Was just wondering how it was possible that your game is featured as part of casino.bitcoin.com's page?  Did you make some type of partnership/deal with them?

It is available on entire Soft-Swiss network and also on BTC Casino, looks like they have released casino game version
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
Hey. Was just wondering how it was possible that your game is featured as part of casino.bitcoin.com's page?  Did you make some type of partnership/deal with them?
legendary
Activity: 3346
Merit: 1191
Congratulations to the player chelashin - the most profit player of April!
He already got his prize from Rainbot - 0.5mBTC!
And remember: one roll can change your life!


Congratulations from me also. I participate in this nice tournament but I didn't had luck, after good start I climb on 3 place with 70 mbtc profit. After that I lost profit and my money and gone to minus. That was the end for me, but I tried and that is important. Prizes for more then nice.

I had tried to hit big odd`s and in beginning I had a good feeling and then few wrong bet`s ruined me. I think this kind of tournament is much better then other when its important how much someone wager. Cause in first type ordinary players have more chance to make good profit even with not so big amounts of money. In other big players wager more in few throws then me in 100.

I hope there will be more tournaments like this in future and I hope I will take some nice prize one day. I will try for sure. Good luck to all players at pocketdice.io
sr. member
Activity: 342
Merit: 250
Congratulations to the player chelashin - the most profit player of April!
He already got his prize from Rainbot - 0.5mBTC!
And remember: one roll can change your life!
sr. member
Activity: 342
Merit: 250
Our tournament is completely over! Congrats to our happy winners:

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They already got their prizes!
And we would appreciate your feedbacks!
And remember: one roll can change your life
legendary
Activity: 2198
Merit: 1014
Bitdice is scam scam scammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
1 Day left until finish of Most Profit tournament with 1BTC prize for winner
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