Topic: Police can confiscate refugees' valuables. bitcoin not affected... - page 2. (Read 526 times)
March 09, 2022, 06:33:14 AM
I don't think this so called law affects refugees from Ukraine.
March 09, 2022, 06:25:26 AM
To be honest, I can't imagine a situation where police at the airport search the seed phrase at the passenger.
How to make it happen at all to suspect someone of "carrying bitcoin" with them? I mean, police dogs can't smell it, can they?
How to make it happen at all to suspect someone of "carrying bitcoin" with them? I mean, police dogs can't smell it, can they?
Some countries have very strict laws that they enforce when entering the country, so border police and customs officers can request access to all electronic devices and require you to provide them with access to all protected files and apps. This is just an example for the US, but I think the UK and especially Australia have similar measures.
Quote from: https://people.howstuffworks.com/government-tsa-search-electronic-device-data-checked-luggage.htm
But all this attention to laptops-in-baggage may be obscuring what to privacy advocates is a bigger issue. Once travelers arrive at a port of entry on U.S. soil, all of the devices that they bring along — including their phones — are subject to search by officials of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, which is a branch of DHS. According to this ACLU analysis of the issue, CBP agents can ask travelers for their passwords, and visa holders and tourists from countries with visa waivers can be refused admittance to the U.S. unless they comply. U.S. citizens don't face that risk, but they can still be temporarily detained, and agents can confiscate their devices and hold onto them for months afterward. Here's a 2009 directive that spells out CBP's procedures for searches of electronics.
The number of searches of cell phones by border agents has mushroomed from 5,000 in 2015 to 25,000 last year, and indications so far are that 2017 might break that record easily, according to CNBC.
The number of searches of cell phones by border agents has mushroomed from 5,000 in 2015 to 25,000 last year, and indications so far are that 2017 might break that record easily, according to CNBC.
March 09, 2022, 06:07:56 AM
To be honest, I can't imagine a situation where police at the airport search the seed phrase at the passenger.
How to make it happen at all to suspect someone of "carrying bitcoin" with them? I mean, police dogs can't smell it, can they?
How to make it happen at all to suspect someone of "carrying bitcoin" with them? I mean, police dogs can't smell it, can they?
We are talking about refugees here, right? Not common tourists....
I this case I would be afraid of corrupted policemen, and also this "jewelry law".
Anyway, even for tourists there is a limitation of carrying at most 10,000 USD when visiting many countries. One day bitcoin might become a problem here, I guess.
And it is easy to spot a HW, or to recognize a seed phrase once you look at it and know what that is.
March 09, 2022, 05:02:04 AM
Meanwhile bitcoin doesn't take up any space, it can be 12 words that you memorize or write down in a book spread among pages without anybody knowing what it is and can not be confiscated.
That is true, bitcoin is the best asset that can be kept and not noticed as the seed phrase can be written on a paper which is all what is needed, but I can not memorize it because I do not trust that, I can forget. But this kind of situation can be difficult because if seephrade is noticed on paper, the police can steal it if the police official knows about it, saying all should be seized. But I think having it on paper will be the best way like embedding it inside many words in a way I will not mistaken it. 
March 09, 2022, 04:32:02 AM
These days people keep asking where does bitcoin come in amidst the conflicts such as the one in Ukraine. Here is another case:
In Denmark, there is a law that allows police to forcefully take anything refugees, asylum seekers, immigrants, ... have that is worth more than ~$1k to supposedly "funds their stay". It's known as the "jewelry law".
what!? that feels like an outright robbery in the guise of "law". I can't believe that a country that is "relatively civilized" and "relatively European" has such an uncivilized law. what's worse is that the law would make refugees, asylum seekers, and immigrants vulnerable to mistreatment.In Denmark, there is a law that allows police to forcefully take anything refugees, asylum seekers, immigrants, ... have that is worth more than ~$1k to supposedly "funds their stay". It's known as the "jewelry law".
Meanwhile bitcoin doesn't take up any space, it can be 12 words that you memorize or write down in a book spread among pages without anybody knowing what it is and can not be confiscated. All one's net-worth could be carried around like this. 
I hope people would realize this and use it to their advantage. 
March 09, 2022, 04:23:25 AM
That is quite messed up. Why would you deprive a people running from war from their valuables? I understand if they have coffers with millions of dollars with them, but a few measly thousand and a some nice jewelry? Thats disgusting. Shame on whichever countries do this. Another excellent reason why the people should move all their money into Bitcoin. Get your money out of the hands of the governments and never worry about having it confiscated.
What is wrong with people nowadays....
What is wrong with people nowadays....
March 09, 2022, 04:12:50 AM
Yes, this is a real and secure fund, this is a real free asset, and now it is more and more felt that Bitcoin is an asset that we must have. The thinking caused by this war is too profound. Swiss banks are not very safe, and where can they be safe.
March 09, 2022, 01:01:31 AM
Now that's a pretty communist law,if you ask me.
The Danish police confiscating items and money,in order to "fund" the stay of the refugees in Denmark?
Can't the refugees simply fund their own stay with the money and items,which are about to be confiscated?
This doesn't make any sense to me.Anyway,Bitcoin can successfully serve this purpose,but so does every altcoin as well.This means that Bitcoin isn't more special than any altcoin,when it comes to hiding your wealth(maybe except the centralized altcoins).I'm not shitting over BTC.I'm just saying that we have to stop with the biased opinions about how special,unique and magnificent Bitcoin actually is.
The Danish police confiscating items and money,in order to "fund" the stay of the refugees in Denmark?
Can't the refugees simply fund their own stay with the money and items,which are about to be confiscated?
This doesn't make any sense to me.Anyway,Bitcoin can successfully serve this purpose,but so does every altcoin as well.This means that Bitcoin isn't more special than any altcoin,when it comes to hiding your wealth(maybe except the centralized altcoins).I'm not shitting over BTC.I'm just saying that we have to stop with the biased opinions about how special,unique and magnificent Bitcoin actually is.
March 09, 2022, 12:57:32 AM
Yes, I have said it before.... Bitcoin is the best "relocation" tool there is to protect your wealth from threats. Take China for instance... when they banned Bitcoin mining, they effectively banned Bitcoin too..... so Chinese miners had to find ways to relocate with their "wealth" to start again in other countries.
Also, when Ukrainians flee their country, they are cut off from the Banking system and it is also not practical to flee with Gold and Diamonds and Silver, because criminals will use this opportunity to rob them. (They might even be ambushed by the Russian soldiers and they might lose all their wealth)
So, it is a good idea to withdraw your capital from Banks before the conflict and to convert it into Bitcoin.... then you transfer it to "paper" and you laminate it to hide it in "code" that only you could decipher or decode. (Bury a backup copy...so that it can be unearthed, in the event that you might need it later)
Also, when Ukrainians flee their country, they are cut off from the Banking system and it is also not practical to flee with Gold and Diamonds and Silver, because criminals will use this opportunity to rob them. (They might even be ambushed by the Russian soldiers and they might lose all their wealth)
So, it is a good idea to withdraw your capital from Banks before the conflict and to convert it into Bitcoin.... then you transfer it to "paper" and you laminate it to hide it in "code" that only you could decipher or decode. (Bury a backup copy...so that it can be unearthed, in the event that you might need it later)
March 09, 2022, 12:42:18 AM
This is why it's called freedom of funds and out of central control.Was not aware about this law and see how they can confiscate your goods against your will also and you can't Rebel because they have setup a law for it.It is like they take your goods if they find it suitable and you can't say anything as you would be criminal if you do so.On the other side if they don't have idea about btc in your wallets you can utilise them easily without any officials taking it away from you.The money with no physical existence and complete security is best in these cases.Still people ask why it's best.
March 09, 2022, 12:08:29 AM
The possibility of exception is just another sign of the hypocrisy and racism that exists among European regimes. We still haven't forgotten hundreds of people including children who froze to death outside their borders during the past couple of years because of their country of origin.
Can't agree more! Europeans are by nature racist. There are definitely exceptions but I have seen hardcore racism in countries like Poland and Romania where I had visited them for international process transitions for my employer. In Poland, the trainings used to happen in polish and we used to have an interpreter. But while writing emails, it was always in English which proves the trainer knew English but never chose to speak to make it easier for me and my team.
I am sure not all Europeans are like that, especially in UK and Germany. But recism and discrimination is real in Europe. Anyone who had visited them from Asia for work purposes, will surely agree with me!
March 08, 2022, 11:50:14 PM
In the worst case scenario when it is impossible to pass with any thing related to bitcoin, one could take the risk of sending it through a "secure" platform which they can log in on some other device and quickly sweep the wallet. This also comes with it's fair share of risk.
That's a terrible idea in my opinion, specially for a chaotic situation where the laws are being bent or don't even exist anymore. Those so called "secure" platforms could start taking their money and never giving it back. Not to mention that any form of online storage of your keys is very risky itself. 
March 08, 2022, 08:53:15 PM
I preferred memorizing seed words and pretending to be the saddest man in the world without anything, maybe the police won't really pay attention to me since their eyes say it all. When you are an immigrant, it's better to lay low and it's fine to be the only one who looks poor in the eyes of the people but you know to yourself that you are not like that and you're just doing it to safety your assets and yourself because no one interested with you when they see you have nothing with you.
March 08, 2022, 08:23:45 PM
But you just said that you can cash out Bitcoin anywhere around the world, so why then do you say later that your dream is that Bitcoin can be cashed out anywhere around the world?
Well, Bitcoin can be cashed out anywhere around the world, as long as you’re using a peer to peer. Even in countries where Bitcoin is not allowed, people has always continued to buy and sell Bitcoin by making use of decentralized/peer to peer means and they having no issues with it at all. And for countries where it is allowed, you can make use of any of those wallets that offers a MasterCard and Visa, so that you can withdraw from the ATM without stress.
Well, Bitcoin can be cashed out anywhere around the world, as long as you’re using a peer to peer. Even in countries where Bitcoin is not allowed, people has always continued to buy and sell Bitcoin by making use of decentralized/peer to peer means and they having no issues with it at all. And for countries where it is allowed, you can make use of any of those wallets that offers a MasterCard and Visa, so that you can withdraw from the ATM without stress.
And you have provided the answer to your own question. Well, the P2P alternative could be too, I haven't even done it yet because it's still a dream. Why am I so sure? because basically, we can access the exchanges wherever they are and then withdraw them through an account with that country's fiat. I think this analogy is simpler and easier to understand
March 08, 2022, 06:59:46 PM
I agree with bitmover, mixing your passphrases will make you safe
By passphrase, you mean seed phrase. Right? Note that seed phrase is different from passphrase.Seed phrase is a series of words (usually 12 words).
Passphrase is a combination of words or letters added to your seed phrase for more security.
but I am much worried about forcing people to open their bitcoin wallet.
Add a passphrase to your seed phrase.No one can know there's a passphrase added to your seed phrase. Even if someone forces you to open your wallet, you can use your seed phrase without the passphrase to generate completely different addresses.
As suggested by pooya87, you can even send a little amount of bitcoin to the wallet created without the passphrase.
March 08, 2022, 06:52:46 PM
Meanwhile bitcoin doesn't take up any space, it can be 12 words that you memorize or write down in a book spread among pages without anybody knowing what it is and can not be confiscated. All one's net-worth could be carried around like this.
I would not suggest memorizing your seed phrase as an option if you want to recover your wallet address after crossing the border, we can memorize lots of information, but trusting your brain to store your seed phrase and remember it accurately is very risky, especially as your crossing could be delayed for whatever reason and now you have to store it for longer.It could be more effective if you will write the seed phrase on the books and spread them all on every page and only pages you need to memorize where you wrote the seed phrase. But of course, not only books, just spread all your books 5-10 books the same pages much better and no one probably notices a single word per page.
This is why Bitcoin is always safe to store not only a value, for privacy purposes too.
March 08, 2022, 06:33:28 PM
I agree with bitmover, mixing your passphrases will make you safe but I am much worried about forcing people to open their bitcoin wallet and make them send actual their Bitcoin if ever they will see these such passphrases or some Bitcoin-related stuff. It's like they are being hold-up or actually stealing their Bitcoins and they will send it to a particular address. But yeah, bitmover idea is still good, you can mix them on multiple wallets in case.
March 08, 2022, 06:08:55 PM
If your context is the current war between Russia and Ukraine, then have a look at the news below,
https://www.thelocal.dk/20220303/danish-government-likely-to-exempt-ukrainians-from-controversial-refugee-jewellery-law/
What you have suggested is definitely helpful for people who don't want to fall prey to such a demonic and inhuman legal provisions. Cryptos can certainly help here!
Good to look at that there is some exemptions which is really that understandable specially on the current situation that they are facing on which is something humanitarian kind of act.https://www.thelocal.dk/20220303/danish-government-likely-to-exempt-ukrainians-from-controversial-refugee-jewellery-law/
What you have suggested is definitely helpful for people who don't want to fall prey to such a demonic and inhuman legal provisions. Cryptos can certainly help here!
Speaking about confiscation due to those kind of laws then crypto would really be a big help on times like this.
March 08, 2022, 05:52:14 PM
But I think times are starting to change when it comes to the awareness of people working at border crossings, airports, or the financial police - they are now being educated to look for just such things, words on paper or devices like hardware wallets that look like USB sticks. Of course, anyone can try to remember their backup in their head, or at least cleverly hide it (but not in luggage that gets lost easily). It is always good to remember that Bitcoin (seed&private keys) can be easily and quite imperceptibly transferred, but also lost or stolen in the moment of our carelessness.
I think it is so easy to hide those 12 words in such a situation.
For example, you can just have a bunch of piece of papers and spread the seed around a few and just make some drawing and put some other words around it.
Certainly hardware wallets are not a good way to carry your money around, as they are easily recognized. One should only use it in such situations if you can use a double PIN (the hidden wallet in the second one)
Anyway, if I were a refugee I would just mix all money funds and hold them in a paper wallet. I would keep jsut a few hundred dollars in my HW. I would move them back when the situation come back to normal.
To be honest, I can't imagine a situation where police at the airport search the seed phrase at the passenger.
How to make it happen at all to suspect someone of "carrying bitcoin" with them? I mean, police dogs can't smell it, can they?
March 08, 2022, 05:39:37 PM
Memorizing seed would be the much-preferred way to be safe than writing it on paper. Checkpoints and border patrols are very curious about what you have in your belongings upon crossing. If they find anything of value like a hardware wallet that is something to keep. If it's a piece of paper, they will likely confiscate it and keep it for a while, complaining to get it back will make them more curious as to what's in it.
I've got some simple technique, but this too could get caught. In a Bible or Quran marking letters of the seed could be a possible solution for one who isn't able to memorize the seed.
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