Policing Bitcoin brought to you by Gavin Andresen

yayayo

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Quote from: BruceFenton on November 04, 2015, 10:28:09 PM

These words from Gavin originally were in response to a note I wrote criticizing the Blockchain Alliance (with FBI, DHS, ICE etc.)

I completely believe that Gavin wishes what is best for Bitcoin and has no bad intent. I don't think he should be criticized for this -- we should all work to increase understanding and share ideas about the best ways to do so.

Bruce

Whether his intentions are bad or not is irrelevant: His actions are a hazard for Bitcoin and deserve criticism.

He has become a burden to Bitcoin. Sadly, many people are blinded by his media presence, perceiving him as the most important developer, while he has barely contributed since over a year and most important work was/is done by others.

The sooner Gavin leaves Bitcoin alone the better.

ya.ya.yo!

yayayo

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Quote from: MbitSport on November 04, 2015, 10:02:41 PM

I think it would be too hard for them to force people to declare their amount bitcoin, i do belive they'll try, don't get me wrong, but no way they could keep track of everyone's wallets, yeah maybe some will, but even those will probably only declare ONE of many wallets lol no chance in hell they'll manage (hope im not eating my words in 20 years time)

I think you did not think it through. It's very easy to exert factual control over the vast majority of Bitcoin users if you implement blacklisting and use data analysis to track relations between all wallets combined with IP-addresses and information from external sources (identities, businesses etc.).

Governmental control will be greatly facilitated if Bitcoin's privacy features remain weak and node centralization occurs. (Gavin is openly denying the importance of these points.)

ya.ya.yo!

RawDog

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Quote from: neurotypical on October 24, 2015, 08:51:28 AM

I just don't get the concept of trying to regulate Bitcoin to be honest. Do they regulate TCP/IP?

The Fed certainly does regulate TCP/IP. Well, not the protocol but activity done on it. Same for Bitcoin, they don't want to regulate the protocol - the protocol is in the wild and the Fed doesn't want to change it at all. However, when child pornographers use TCP/IP to transmit kiddie porn, the regulators slam down the hammer. Don't think you will be able to use the bitcoin protocol for illegal purposes, they will slam down the hammer on you. They are trying to regulate the protocol - just the assholes who use it to advance their crimes.

Envrin

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Gavin and Mike can sit and spin.

XT is going nowhere anyway... miners have already voted, and they're not willing to adopt it, so Mike and Gavin might as well just talk to a cement wall.

BruceFenton

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These words from Gavin originally were in response to a note I wrote criticizing the Blockchain Alliance (with FBI, DHS, ICE etc.)

I completely believe that Gavin wishes what is best for Bitcoin and has no bad intent. I don't think he should be criticized for this -- we should all work to increase understanding and share ideas about the best ways to do so.

Bruce

brg444

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Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: yayayo on November 04, 2015, 08:57:49 PM

Quote from: coinpr0n on October 26, 2015, 04:39:36 AM

I'm not much for regulation myself but I also don't subscribe to the Gavin Conspiracy Theory. I think he is doing what he feels is right and everyone is allowed to make their own decisions.

What conspiracy theory?

Fact #1: Gavin was invited by the CIA and accepted invitation.

Fact #2: Gavin founded the now mostly defunct Bitcoin Foundation.

Fact #3: Gavin together with Mike Hearn tried to initiate a non-consensus hardfork with a previously rejected XT-client that implements blacklisting.

Fact #4: Gavin again proves as a perfect servant of the establishment by supporting the blockchain alliance.

Fact #5: Gavin constantly tries to exert political influence on Core development via frequent media appearances.

Regardless if he is evil or hopelessly naive. His actions are damaging Bitcoin and couldn't be further from Satoshi's vision as engraved in the Genesis block.

ya.ya.yo!

Couldn't have said it better.

And people say it's the guys over at Blockstream we should be concerned about Roll Eyes

MbitSport

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Quote from: AdopterOfCoin on October 26, 2015, 04:28:54 AM

Quote from: brg444 on October 26, 2015, 03:23:08 AM

Quote from: medUSA on October 26, 2015, 03:02:37 AM

Bitcoin will be regulated whether we like it or not. It is difficult to regulate our addresses and bitcoin wallets, it will be easy to regulate our bitcoin spending: when we buy physical goods from website, when we exchange for other crypto or fiat. Governments can force us to declare bitcoin ownership on our tax returns. I believe it is better to interact with regulators, to educate them that bitcoin is not an "evil" technology.

Yeah that worked splendidly well with Lawsky heh Roll Eyes

And no, government will never force me to declare and report whatever amount of Bitcoin I possess. It is none of their business.

If the government treat bitcoin as money or property, you have to declare it.

I think it would be too hard for them to force people to declare their amount bitcoin, i do belive they'll try, don't get me wrong, but no way they could keep track of everyone's wallets, yeah maybe some will, but even those will probably only declare ONE of many wallets lol no chance in hell they'll manage (hope im not eating my words in 20 years time)

yayayo

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Quote from: coinpr0n on October 26, 2015, 04:39:36 AM

I'm not much for regulation myself but I also don't subscribe to the Gavin Conspiracy Theory. I think he is doing what he feels is right and everyone is allowed to make their own decisions.

What conspiracy theory?

Fact #1: Gavin was invited by the CIA and accepted invitation.

Fact #2: Gavin founded the now mostly defunct Bitcoin Foundation.

Fact #3: Gavin together with Mike Hearn tried to initiate a non-consensus hardfork with a previously rejected XT-client that implements blacklisting.

Fact #4: Gavin again proves as a perfect servant of the establishment by supporting the blockchain alliance.

Fact #5: Gavin constantly tries to exert political influence on Core development via frequent media appearances.

Regardless if he is evil or hopelessly naive. His actions are damaging Bitcoin and couldn't be further from Satoshi's vision as engraved in the Genesis block.

ya.ya.yo!

DooMAD

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Leave no FUD unchallenged

Quote from: coinpr0n on October 26, 2015, 04:39:36 AM

I'm not much for regulation myself but I also don't subscribe to the Gavin Conspiracy Theory. I think he is doing what he feels is right and everyone is allowed to make their own decisions.

Absolutely. It might sound a bit cornball, but Bitcoin can be all things to all people. We know that the protocol itself can't be universally regulated by a single authority, so that's a non-issue. Services can easily be regulated, but it's still ultimately the users' choice as to whether they opt to use a regulated service or an unregulated one. It's a bit like the choice between Netflix and Bittorent. There's room in this diverse world for both to thrive and, as you say, everyone is allowed to make their own decisions.

coinpr0n

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I'm not much for regulation myself but I also don't subscribe to the Gavin Conspiracy Theory. I think he is doing what he feels is right and everyone is allowed to make their own decisions.

AdopterOfCoin

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Quote from: brg444 on October 26, 2015, 03:23:08 AM

Quote from: medUSA on October 26, 2015, 03:02:37 AM

Bitcoin will be regulated whether we like it or not. It is difficult to regulate our addresses and bitcoin wallets, it will be easy to regulate our bitcoin spending: when we buy physical goods from website, when we exchange for other crypto or fiat. Governments can force us to declare bitcoin ownership on our tax returns. I believe it is better to interact with regulators, to educate them that bitcoin is not an "evil" technology.

Yeah that worked splendidly well with Lawsky heh Roll Eyes

And no, government will never force me to declare and report whatever amount of Bitcoin I possess. It is none of their business.

If the government treat bitcoin as money or property, you have to declare it.

brg444

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 504

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: medUSA on October 26, 2015, 03:02:37 AM

Bitcoin will be regulated whether we like it or not. It is difficult to regulate our addresses and bitcoin wallets, it will be easy to regulate our bitcoin spending: when we buy physical goods from website, when we exchange for other crypto or fiat. Governments can force us to declare bitcoin ownership on our tax returns. I believe it is better to interact with regulators, to educate them that bitcoin is not an "evil" technology.

Yeah that worked splendidly well with Lawsky heh Roll Eyes

And no, government will never force me to declare and report whatever amount of Bitcoin I possess. It is none of their business.

brg444

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 504

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: rebuilder on October 26, 2015, 02:51:03 AM

So we should aim to educate people om what Bitcoin is and can do, as long as they're in no way associated with the government?

Are we suppose to believe LAE are somehow stupid and can't figure out Bitcoin by themselves?

They seemed to do a good enough job in DPR's case.

I'll personally make sure to stay as far away as possible from any company involved in this "Bitcoin Alliance"

medUSA

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--Signature Designs-- http://bit.ly/1Pjbx77

Bitcoin will be regulated whether we like it or not. It is difficult to regulate our addresses and bitcoin wallets, it will be easy to regulate our bitcoin spending: when we buy physical goods from website, when we exchange for other crypto or fiat. Governments can force us to declare bitcoin ownership on our tax returns. I believe it is better to interact with regulators, to educate them that bitcoin is not an "evil" technology.

rebuilder

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So we should aim to educate people om what Bitcoin is and can do, as long as they're in no way associated with the government?

cjmoles

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I don't know...I don't think the FBI would have oversight...it would be the CIA because bitcoin encompasses the world. The CIA have already demonstrated that they lie, cheat, steal, snoop, kill, and various other illegal things. Why trust them to stick their noses in our wallets?

yayayo

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Quote from: odolvlobo on October 24, 2015, 05:54:39 PM

Quote from: yayayo on October 24, 2015, 08:07:05 AM

Listen up, law-abiding citizen, what your honorable CIA-fellow and altcoin developer Gavin Andresen is doing for your safety:
https://forum.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-discussion/announcing-the-blockchain-alliance-t1601.html#p3635

Gavin is saying that it is a good idea to educate the people with the guns and cages so that they don't overreact and start using those guns and cages on you. I see nothing wrong with that. You can stick your head in the sand, but blinding yourself won't make those people leave you alone.

Maybe you think that Gavin is our "leader", or you think that the Bitcoin Alliance and the Bitcoin Foundation are in charge, and you are afraid that they are going to negotiate and capitulate. If that is what you think, then perhaps you should rethink the "leader" and "who is in charge" nonsense.

I definitely do not think that Gavin is "our" "leader". He is just trying hard to push for governmental control through node centralization, blacklisting, and all the other fine things governmental control freaks use to take away your freedom.

To prevent that Bitcoin becomes government controlled slave-money improved privacy features like confidential transactions are urgently needed.

Quote from: johnyj on October 24, 2015, 09:56:11 PM

I don't have a bad impression of law enforcement. I guess federal agents are much more experienced than Gavin security wise, they have sophisticated models to handle unknown threat, no need to educate them, they will get the essential of bitcoin pretty quick

Like shoot first, verify suspicion later? Authorities' prime obligation is to consolidate the power of the government muppets in charge. People that think talking to authorities will advance freedom score 100% on the double-think indoctrination scale.

ya.ya.yo!

cjmoles

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Well, I certainly see Gavins point about some sort of regulations. If it allows for a smoother transfer between USD to BTC that would be a good thing. However, the thought of negotiating with an agency of whom we already know is doing underhanded things (Edward Snowden revelations) seems a little sketchy. The government in the USA already tells its citizens what they can and cannot spend their hard earned money on....which s exactly why many use bitcoin in the first place....Hmmm.

johnyj

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Beyond Imagination

I don't have a bad impression of law enforcement. I guess federal agents are much more experienced than Gavin security wise, they have sophisticated models to handle unknown threat, no need to educate them, they will get the essential of bitcoin pretty quick

But what those organization need to get educated is monetary knowledge. Once they fully understand that modern fiat money is a Ponzi scam, they will consider bitcoin more positively: comparing with the large scale scam of fiat money which is counted in trillions, bitcoin's illicit usage is nothing

odolvlobo

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Quote from: yayayo on October 24, 2015, 08:07:05 AM

Listen up, law-abiding citizen, what your honorable CIA-fellow and altcoin developer Gavin Andresen is doing for your safety:
https://forum.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-discussion/announcing-the-blockchain-alliance-t1601.html#p3635

Gavin is saying that it is a good idea to educate the people with the guns and cages so that they don't overreact and start using those guns and cages on you. I see nothing wrong with that. You can stick your head in the sand, but blinding yourself won't make those people leave you alone.

Maybe you think that Gavin is our "leader", or you think that the Bitcoin Alliance and the Bitcoin Foundation are in charge, and you are afraid that they are going to negotiate and capitulate. If that is what you think, then perhaps you should rethink the "leader" and "who is in charge" nonsense.

Topic: Policing Bitcoin brought to you by Gavin Andresen (Read 1801 times)