Be careful if you decide to go with the majority rules concept and implement shares. By offering shares you are explcitly doing several things you may not have thought out fully.
1. Giving up some amount of control of your company. To do this at, and because of, the first major crisis is not advisable.
2. You're opening yourself up to a --huge-- new regulatory system. Especially with the amounts of money that are flowing through your company, you could easily be looked at by the FTC, SEC. You better make sure all your paperwork is in order, and that the proper corporate setup is in place. The SEC even gives large companies, with significant resources a good hard time when they mess up the paperwork.
3. This is a process that is known in legal circles, to quote a Harvard paper I'm looking at, as "complex and expensive". You have to know that if you mess this up, and try to 'just offer shares' that you're opening yourself up to some pretty decent lawsuits for mishandling things. This doesn't go away either, since you are in essence offering part ownership of your company, all your decisions from then on are open to scrutiny by shareholders.
4. What are the terms of these shares? What percentage of the company are you offering? What if any shareholder board details are there. etc etc etc.
Ok someone stole some money from your baby. ..from reading the threads on this, many people are ok with your basic repayment plan and leaving it at that. There better be a pretty solid reasoning behind making the solution more complex then that.
Also note that its almost a forgone conclusion that shares would win. Thats like offering to pay back whats owed, or pay back whats owed plus give me part ownership of something that will bring me a lot more profit in the future. ..of course any reasonable profit seeking person is going to take the 2nd option.
Topic: POLL: How to Deal with Stolen BTC on Poloniex - page 2. (Read 8884 times)
The transparency on this issue is impressive! (mtGox!!).
Tristan, I support the method that keeps the exchange running. Remember everyone, we're here specifically because these folks are NOT FDIC insured. Cryptos only survive because of the communities behind them.
Edit...name spelling...
Tristan, I support the method that keeps the exchange running. Remember everyone, we're here specifically because these folks are NOT FDIC insured. Cryptos only survive because of the communities behind them.
Edit...name spelling...
Like that we were informed and security is being fixed. I don't mind the loan as long as users get paid back what was used at the time, with possible interest. I would prefer the shares myself though.
I like Poloniex and want to see it succeed. Busoni is a rare find in this wild west of cryptos. I'm confident he will find a way to make his customers whole.
I think option #2 is the most friendly way to deal with the shortfall.
There is also option #4. Launch BusoniCoin! Use BusoniCoin as a ProtoShares style asset to issue shares of Poloniex!
If you launch it, I will mine it.
I kinda like the idea of shares as well as BusoniCoin, interesting. and yes I would mine it for a while maybe longer! I think option #2 is the most friendly way to deal with the shortfall.
There is also option #4. Launch BusoniCoin! Use BusoniCoin as a ProtoShares style asset to issue shares of Poloniex!
If you launch it, I will mine it.
I agree with this.
Launching a coin with an underlying asset of value is something I am currently working on and if you could pull this off it would be awesome, but there are quite a few technical challenges involved with creating a coin like that. It "should" be possible now or soon with either NXT, Counterparty, Mastercoin or Etherum, but I don't think it has been done successfully yet in the real world?
If it's just another Altcoin clone with no underlying value and no dividends attached to it I think there will be less interest.
One benefit of getting external investors as shareholders in your business is that there will be a lot more people rooting for your success.
You will likely get help from people with a vested in interest in your success in all sorts of ways, apart from the fact that the shareholders will help drive new customers to the exchange.
Check out the Asset table of the Counterparty decentralized exchange (DEX), a lot of user assets have already been created and are being traded:
http://blockscan.com/asset.aspx
#2, and use Counterparty to issue the shares and dividends. No more centralization than necessary.
Also, consider going to a 2-of-3 signing model where customers must cryptographically sign every movement of their coins, which results in much slower trading but prevents theft. If Poloniex could be the first exchange to do this it could actually be a boon and turn this theft into a positive thing for your company. Imagine if Poloniex became the only exchange where users would have cryptographic proof that their coins could never be stolen, except the actual amount involved in the current trade, which could of course be small-chunked to minimize risk.
I'd trade there myself, because then even with this history of being hacked it wouldn't matter in the slightest - Poloniex would be as secure as Bitcoin itself - and there is a large contingent of people who really don't care about day trading, they just want to make a few trades every couple of days or weeks as new developments arise. This is an unexplored niche and why not have it be Poloniex that pioneers it? A no-trust exchange. I'm sure many people would be happy to provide help with the coding and cryptography side of things as well.
+1Also, consider going to a 2-of-3 signing model where customers must cryptographically sign every movement of their coins, which results in much slower trading but prevents theft. If Poloniex could be the first exchange to do this it could actually be a boon and turn this theft into a positive thing for your company. Imagine if Poloniex became the only exchange where users would have cryptographic proof that their coins could never be stolen, except the actual amount involved in the current trade, which could of course be small-chunked to minimize risk.
I'd trade there myself, because then even with this history of being hacked it wouldn't matter in the slightest - Poloniex would be as secure as Bitcoin itself - and there is a large contingent of people who really don't care about day trading, they just want to make a few trades every couple of days or weeks as new developments arise. This is an unexplored niche and why not have it be Poloniex that pioneers it? A no-trust exchange. I'm sure many people would be happy to provide help with the coding and cryptography side of things as well.
#2, and use Counterparty to issue the shares and dividends. No more centralization than necessary.
Also, consider going to a 2-of-3 signing model where customers must cryptographically sign every movement of their coins, which results in much slower trading but prevents theft. If Poloniex could be the first exchange to do this it could actually be a boon and turn this theft into a positive thing for your company. Imagine if Poloniex became the only exchange where users would have cryptographic proof that their coins could never be stolen, except the actual amount involved in the current trade, which could of course be small-chunked to minimize risk.
I'd trade there myself, because then even with this history of being hacked it wouldn't matter in the slightest - Poloniex would be as secure as Bitcoin itself - and there is a large contingent of people who really don't care about day trading, they just want to make a few trades every couple of days or weeks as new developments arise. This is an unexplored niche and why not have it be Poloniex that pioneers it? A no-trust exchange. I'm sure many people would be happy to provide help with the coding and cryptography side of things as well.
+1 Also, consider going to a 2-of-3 signing model where customers must cryptographically sign every movement of their coins, which results in much slower trading but prevents theft. If Poloniex could be the first exchange to do this it could actually be a boon and turn this theft into a positive thing for your company. Imagine if Poloniex became the only exchange where users would have cryptographic proof that their coins could never be stolen, except the actual amount involved in the current trade, which could of course be small-chunked to minimize risk.
I'd trade there myself, because then even with this history of being hacked it wouldn't matter in the slightest - Poloniex would be as secure as Bitcoin itself - and there is a large contingent of people who really don't care about day trading, they just want to make a few trades every couple of days or weeks as new developments arise. This is an unexplored niche and why not have it be Poloniex that pioneers it? A no-trust exchange. I'm sure many people would be happy to provide help with the coding and cryptography side of things as well.
As much as I'd like to get shares of poloniex so we can all share in its rapid growth, you could just make it easy for yourself and consider the money taken from customers as a loan. Pay it back with a good interest rate and timely manner. First priority is to let everyone know how much was taken from their account, and then a clear accounting of how (and when) it will be paid back.
#2, and use Counterparty to issue the shares and dividends. No more centralization than necessary.
Also, consider going to a 2-of-3 signing model where customers must cryptographically sign every movement of their coins, which results in much slower trading but prevents theft. If Poloniex could be the first exchange to do this it could actually be a boon and turn this theft into a positive thing for your company. Imagine if Poloniex became the only exchange where users would have cryptographic proof that their coins could never be stolen, except the actual amount involved in the current trade, which could of course be small-chunked to minimize risk.
I'd trade there myself, because then even with this history of being hacked it wouldn't matter in the slightest - Poloniex would be as secure as Bitcoin itself - and there is a large contingent of people who really don't care about day trading, they just want to make a few trades every couple of days or weeks as new developments arise. This is an unexplored niche and why not have it be Poloniex that pioneers it? A no-trust exchange. I'm sure many people would be happy to provide help with the coding and cryptography side of things as well.
Also, consider going to a 2-of-3 signing model where customers must cryptographically sign every movement of their coins, which results in much slower trading but prevents theft. If Poloniex could be the first exchange to do this it could actually be a boon and turn this theft into a positive thing for your company. Imagine if Poloniex became the only exchange where users would have cryptographic proof that their coins could never be stolen, except the actual amount involved in the current trade, which could of course be small-chunked to minimize risk.
I'd trade there myself, because then even with this history of being hacked it wouldn't matter in the slightest - Poloniex would be as secure as Bitcoin itself - and there is a large contingent of people who really don't care about day trading, they just want to make a few trades every couple of days or weeks as new developments arise. This is an unexplored niche and why not have it be Poloniex that pioneers it? A no-trust exchange. I'm sure many people would be happy to provide help with the coding and cryptography side of things as well.
It would be nice if I can exchange my 12,3% in shares.
And another question: We can trade the shares then, right?
And another question: We can trade the shares then, right?
+1 on shares, but I'm only a small time trader so I think those that lost more might want to have more weight in the decision.
Hi Busoni,
Where is my missing XCP?
i bought 6xcp at 2014-02-18 04:25:28,
i bought another 1xcp at 2014-02-28 05:46:40
Market Type Price Amount Total Date
BTC/XCP Buy 0.0086 1 0.0086 BTC 2014-02-28 05:46:40
BTC/XCP Buy 0.00822 6 0.04932 BTC 2014-02-18 04:25:28
i withdraw 5.85XCP at XCP
5.825 1HgDX48ypZo5sFncGyCrwT4pp1BBDA8unZ 2014-02-28 06:50:49 COMPLETE: 8719daeafcee00e80f7bc37a518ac7882e2bd89fedb9dd566c778a56d661fa9b
now my balance is 0 XCP.
where is the missing 1.1xcp?
Where is my missing XCP?
i bought 6xcp at 2014-02-18 04:25:28,
i bought another 1xcp at 2014-02-28 05:46:40
Market Type Price Amount Total Date
BTC/XCP Buy 0.0086 1 0.0086 BTC 2014-02-28 05:46:40
BTC/XCP Buy 0.00822 6 0.04932 BTC 2014-02-18 04:25:28
i withdraw 5.85XCP at XCP
5.825 1HgDX48ypZo5sFncGyCrwT4pp1BBDA8unZ 2014-02-28 06:50:49 COMPLETE: 8719daeafcee00e80f7bc37a518ac7882e2bd89fedb9dd566c778a56d661fa9b
now my balance is 0 XCP.
where is the missing 1.1xcp?
Shares would have my preference by far.
Why? crypto exchanges are risk for all parties, but currently while the risks are on the users, the benefits are not.
Having shares allows sharing risks AND benefits.
Ideally a model like mcxnow where fees are spread between owner, shareholders and users would be best. This way everyone gets a portion of benefits (they already all bear a portion of the risks)
Why? crypto exchanges are risk for all parties, but currently while the risks are on the users, the benefits are not.
Having shares allows sharing risks AND benefits.
Ideally a model like mcxnow where fees are spread between owner, shareholders and users would be best. This way everyone gets a portion of benefits (they already all bear a portion of the risks)
I think you could easily sell shares by creating a company selling assets in xcp/counterparty protocol?
nice idea!
so i guess "Sell shares of Poloniex, dividends paid from exchange fees" option will be chosen!
anyone care to explain when and how exactly will we get back our btc?
thanks!
anyone care to explain when and how exactly will we get back our btc?
thanks!
It seems my btc balance has dropped by 12.3%. Could you please post somewhere on my account balances page the amount taken and like some sort of accounting function showing how much has been earned back? As of now it's just vaporized as far as i concerned. We basically need a receipt showing we loaned the site operator 12.3% of our balance.
+3 (+4 for my brother who is still sleeping).
+5
I think you could easily sell shares by creating a company selling assets in xcp/counterparty protocol?
+1+1
agree
a very good suggestion
It seems my btc balance has dropped by 12.3%. Could you please post somewhere on my account balances page the amount taken and like some sort of accounting function showing how much has been earned back? As of now it's just vaporized as far as i concerned. We basically need a receipt showing we loaned the site operator 12.3% of our balance.
+3 (+4 for my brother who is still sleeping).
I think you could easily sell shares by creating a company selling assets in xcp/counterparty protocol?
+1We would be glad to have Poloneix Shares on the XCP distributed exchange.
It seems my btc balance has dropped by 12.3%. Could you please post somewhere on my account balances page the amount taken and like some sort of accounting function showing how much has been earned back? As of now it's just vaporized as far as i concerned. We basically need a receipt showing we loaned the site operator 12.3% of our balance.
+2
I agree. I did not loose very much BTC, but I still think you should announce some kind of plan to your users. One step could be (or should be) to email the users that you have reduced their BTC balance at your site and explain why their coins are missing and what you are going to do about it. I have not yet lost confidence in your site, and I understand that you are under a lot of pressure right now and have to work hard. But I think it is in your best interest to continue to communicate with your customers. Not only trough bitcointalk, take some time to think about the situation and some time to sleep, but I still think you should email your customers with an explanation of why some of their BTC has dissapeared from their accounts, and what your future actions will be. Ill be expecting an explanation in your site or in an email within 48 hours. That sounds reasonable to me, what do you other guys think?
It seems my btc balance has dropped by 12.3%. Could you please post somewhere on my account balances page the amount taken and like some sort of accounting function showing how much has been earned back? As of now it's just vaporized as far as i concerned. We basically need a receipt showing we loaned the site operator 12.3% of our balance.
+2
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