Poloniex's taking money from its customers to cover its loss - page 5.

arewethereyet?

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Quote from: countryfree on July 15, 2019, 05:07:32 AM

It sounds good but who can trust a company which doesn't care about its clients, allowing huge margin trading which are doomed to fail, and doesn't hesitate to take money from its loyal customers to pay for its negligence?

+ put a gun to your head for your ID, before your tokens will be yours again. Thieves.

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

Quote from: countryfree on July 15, 2019, 05:07:32 AM

Poloniex has added new services.

It's now possible to buy BTC with a credit card, and you can also buy or sell via your bank account. It sounds good but who can trust a company which doesn't care about its clients, allowing huge margin trading which are doomed to fail, and doesn't hesitate to take money from its loyal customers to pay for its negligence?

I wonder what their game plan is. It's clear the public has little intention of coming back.

I presumed buying Poloniex was something to do with their grand plans to tokenise everything and Poloniex would be the portal to trade them but it seems a vague plan at best. If they ever get around to it no one's going to be there any more.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Poloniex has added new services.

It's now possible to buy BTC with a credit card, and you can also buy or sell via your bank account. It sounds good but who can trust a company which doesn't care about its clients, allowing huge margin trading which are doomed to fail, and doesn't hesitate to take money from its loyal customers to pay for its negligence?

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Quote from: DonQuijote on July 11, 2019, 10:01:22 PM

what percentage have they stolen? When will they return the money?

1,800 BTC have been seized, about 10% have been returned so far, we don't know what's next...

DonQuijote

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♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ < ♛♚&#

what percentage have they stolen? When will they return the money?

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Quote from: AdolfinWolf on July 10, 2019, 04:16:13 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I will do it for sure. People must know their heroes.

Thanks, everybody should it. It only takes a few minutes, and it will make the crypto world safer, by telling real facts about the Poloniex exchange.

There's 2k reviews in the app store.

A couple grumpy reviews, especially if they look targeted (which this does.) will change nothing, and perhaps even be removed by google/apple for being fake.

Well, if you have a better idea, don't keep it to yourself.

Poloniex was the only exchange allowing huge margin trading on a sh*tcoin like CLAM, so that was a mistake we can talk about on a review. I guess we published 10 negative reviews so far. We need many more!

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: AdolfinWolf on July 10, 2019, 04:16:13 PM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on July 06, 2019, 03:51:53 PM

I don’t know how their accounts are setup. I don’t believe they have bank accounts with customer money. If they do go bankrupt, the argument will likely be made that account holders have a lien against crypto assets in the amount of their various balances. Someone who has a 1 btc deposit will have a lien on 1 btc worth of their bitcoin and someone with a 1 ltc deposit has a lien on 1 ltc worth of litecoin.

Yeah, i also think they just store their customer's assets in a cold-storage somewhere. I'm kind of interested to know what the rules and regulations on that are, and to who these funds belong in the end.
Really curious actually.

I just know a couple other exchanges who do have custodial bank accounts, but knowing poloniex i wouldn't expect too much from them, much less so in a bankruptcy case, when i can't even under normal circumstances get my money out.

I don't believe poloniex has any customer money in bank accounts because they only trade crypto, and stablecoins.

Gemini for example has customer USD deposits in custodial bank accounts, however the purpose of this is so FDIC insurance gets passed along to customers in case the bank the deposits are being held in fails. My understanding is if an exchange were to hold customer deposits in an account titled in their corporate name, the corporation would have their deposits insured for only the first $250k of deposits, however an exchange holding USD deposits in a custodial account, each customer of the exchange has their USD deposit insured by FDIC insurance limits.

I don't believe the topic has been litigated in the courts, but I believe poloniex owns all coin in their cold/hot wallets and has a liability in the amount of customer deposits. When a customer deposits 1 BTC, both the assets and liabilities of poloniex will increase by the same amount. The important question is if customer deposits amount to an unsecured liability, or if customers have a generalized lien on poloniex's crypto holdings in the amount of their deposits.

AdolfinWolf

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I will do it for sure. People must know their heroes.

Thanks, everybody should it. It only takes a few minutes, and it will make the crypto world safer, by telling real facts about the Poloniex exchange.

There's 2k reviews in the app store.

A couple grumpy reviews, especially if they look targeted (which this does.) will change nothing, and perhaps even be removed by google/apple for being fake.

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on July 06, 2019, 03:51:53 PM

I don’t know how their accounts are setup. I don’t believe they have bank accounts with customer money. If they do go bankrupt, the argument will likely be made that account holders have a lien against crypto assets in the amount of their various balances. Someone who has a 1 btc deposit will have a lien on 1 btc worth of their bitcoin and someone with a 1 ltc deposit has a lien on 1 ltc worth of litecoin.

Yeah, i also think they just store their customer's assets in a cold-storage somewhere. I'm kind of interested to know what the rules and regulations on that are, and to who these funds belong in the end.
Really curious actually.

I just know a couple other exchanges who do have custodial bank accounts, but knowing poloniex i wouldn't expect too much from them, much less so in a bankruptcy case, when i can't even under normal circumstances get my money out.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on July 06, 2019, 03:51:53 PM

I removed their email addresses, however they appear on every article they have written or contributed to.

I guess they don't mind getting an awful lot of spam...

Now, something important!

I guess we all agree here that Poloniex has been doing a bad thing, here, but everybody can act to tell the world about it.

All you need is a smartphone (Android or Iphone). Just download the Poloniex app, and give them the lowest rating with a comment explaining you cannot trust an exchange which socializes loss among its users. Please do it! It's important that the world knows about it, and it's important that Poloniex (and Circle behind it) sees it's under pressure, so that it must give us our money back.

Thanks in advance to anyone who will help spreading the truth.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: AdolfinWolf on July 04, 2019, 10:20:08 AM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on July 04, 2019, 02:18:08 AM

Quote from: countryfree on July 01, 2019, 04:10:53 PM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on July 01, 2019, 01:20:15 AM

Poloniex declaring bankruptcy.

What's wrong with that? It would still be better than keeping the business running as usual as it is. At last, the world would be sure this won't happen again.

There is nothing wrong with this per se, but I would repeat that I do not believe this is a winning case. I would also repeat that I believe the right thing to do is Poloniex to cover the losses, I do not believe they are legally required to do so.

If you did bankrupt Poloniex, I believe you would spend a lot of money out of your own pocket doing so, and any money you do recover would probably not cover any legal expenses you incur.

That depends on how Poloniex is set up. If the money of customers' is in custodial accounts, (which i think might be required by law?) then in the case of a bankruptcy, those funds won't/can't be collected, and will be returned to the account holders.

I don’t know how their accounts are setup. I don’t believe they have bank accounts with customer money. If they do go bankrupt, the argument will likely be made that account holders have a lien against crypto assets in the amount of their various balances. Someone who has a 1 btc deposit will have a lien on 1 btc worth of their bitcoin and someone with a 1 ltc deposit has a lien on 1 ltc worth of litecoin.

Quote from: countryfree on July 05, 2019, 03:03:57 PM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on July 04, 2019, 02:18:08 AM

Quote from: countryfree on July 02, 2019, 03:13:58 PM

Does anyone here is a regular poster on Wikipedia, or knows a journalists?
Thanks.

Both Paul Vigna and Steven Russolillo have covered bitcoin recently:

Thanks a lot, but I suggest you edit your post and remove addresses. I noted them. I would not like to have my address on a public forum.

I removed their email addresses, however they appear on every article they have written or contributed to.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 link=topic=5151636.msg51702021#msg51702021 date=1562221088

[quote author=countryfree link=topic=5151636.msg51685869#msg51685869 date=1562094838

Does anyone here is a regular poster on Wikipedia, or knows a journalists?
Thanks.

Both Paul Vigna and Steven Russolillo have covered bitcoin recently:

[/quote]

Thanks a lot, but I suggest you edit your post and remove addresses. I noted them. I would not like to have my address on a public forum.

arewethereyet?

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Quote from: gentlemand on June 08, 2019, 08:15:52 AM

In a space filled with utter waste $400 million for this looks like one of the biggest cash bonfires of all.

I visualise Tristan giggling to himself, every morning of every day.....

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Quote from: squatter on July 03, 2019, 02:38:39 PM

Quote from: countryfree on July 03, 2019, 02:32:34 PM

hmm, lending rates are directly linked to demand from margin trading. I don't want another sh*tcoin collapse...

Besides, I've removed most of my coins. I only have about 0.1 BTC left at Poloniex. I just don't trust it anymore, and who can?

Has this scandal had a material effect on P2P lending liquidity, or are lenders generally just eating the loss and continuing on as normal? Where can we view statistics about outstanding P2P loans and interest rates? I'd have thought lenders would withdraw funds en masse and this would naturally drive interest rates up.

A 1,800 BTC loss, I've lost myself more than 1 BTC, and I just can't eat it. This is no business as usual. I don't think there are stats available. I guess Poloniex have some, but they're hiding it. We still don't know how many people were affected...

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on July 04, 2019, 02:18:08 AM

If you did bankrupt Poloniex, I believe you would spend a lot of money out of your own pocket doing so, and any money you do recover would probably not cover any legal expenses you incur.

No, I would not have to pay any legal fee. I've found a lawyer who doesn't ask for any money up front. He just want a share of whatever he may get from Poloniex, but it's a huge share, with a substantial fixed minimum.

AdolfinWolf

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on July 04, 2019, 02:18:08 AM

Quote from: countryfree on July 01, 2019, 04:10:53 PM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on July 01, 2019, 01:20:15 AM

Poloniex declaring bankruptcy.

What's wrong with that? It would still be better than keeping the business running as usual as it is. At last, the world would be sure this won't happen again.

There is nothing wrong with this per se, but I would repeat that I do not believe this is a winning case. I would also repeat that I believe the right thing to do is Poloniex to cover the losses, I do not believe they are legally required to do so.

If you did bankrupt Poloniex, I believe you would spend a lot of money out of your own pocket doing so, and any money you do recover would probably not cover any legal expenses you incur.

That depends on how Poloniex is set up. If the money of customers' is in custodial accounts, (which i think might be required by law?) then in the case of a bankruptcy, those funds won't/can't be collected, and will be returned to the account holders.

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on July 01, 2019, 01:20:15 AM

I am curious to know why you believe "haircutting balances with a generalized loss" is illegal in the US. I think this is exactly what happens to depositholders at banks whose deposits exceed FDIC insurance limits when they fail.

Hmm. It was only socialized between other margin traders right?
Still, scum behaviour.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: countryfree on July 01, 2019, 04:10:53 PM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on July 01, 2019, 01:20:15 AM

Poloniex declaring bankruptcy.

What's wrong with that? It would still be better than keeping the business running as usual as it is. At last, the world would be sure this won't happen again.

There is nothing wrong with this per se, but I would repeat that I do not believe this is a winning case. I would also repeat that I believe the right thing to do is Poloniex to cover the losses, I do not believe they are legally required to do so.

If you did bankrupt Poloniex, I believe you would spend a lot of money out of your own pocket doing so, and any money you do recover would probably not cover any legal expenses you incur.

Quote from: countryfree on July 02, 2019, 03:13:58 PM

Does anyone here is a regular poster on Wikipedia, or knows a journalists?
Thanks.

Both Paul Vigna and Steven Russolillo have covered bitcoin recently:

ETA/removed email addresses

There are some writers at Forbes also, but IMO they lack credibility. I don't know any of these people personally.

squatter

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STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: countryfree on July 03, 2019, 02:32:34 PM

hmm, lending rates are directly linked to demand from margin trading. I don't want another sh*tcoin collapse...

Besides, I've removed most of my coins. I only have about 0.1 BTC left at Poloniex. I just don't trust it anymore, and who can?

Has this scandal had a material effect on P2P lending liquidity, or are lenders generally just eating the loss and continuing on as normal? Where can we view statistics about outstanding P2P loans and interest rates? I'd have thought lenders would withdraw funds en masse and this would naturally drive interest rates up.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Quote from: stormos on July 03, 2019, 05:50:50 AM

maybe we should push poloniex to increase minimum rates to 20% apr? It's pretty still low for traders. Exchange fee goes up 10 times and some of this increase can be directed to covering our losses.

hmm, lending rates are directly linked to demand from margin trading. I don't want another sh*tcoin collapse...

Besides, I've removed most of my coins. I only have about 0.1 BTC left at Poloniex. I just don't trust it anymore, and who can?

Bodmas785

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Roughly $13.5 million USD is lost and we have to count cost for that.
I think now it's time to give a concern at margin trading, need to remove margin trading which have poor liquidity like BTC, CLAM.
Not only poloniex, I want to say it is a lesson for all, All exchange should be concern about margin market otherwise user faith will certainly be lost.

stormos

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maybe we should push poloniex to increase minimum rates to 20% apr? It's pretty still low for traders. Exchange fee goes up 10 times and some of this increase can be directed to covering our losses.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Does anyone here is a regular poster on Wikipedia, or knows a journalists?
Thanks.

Topic: Poloniex's taking money from its customers to cover its loss - page 5. (Read 2381 times)