Ponzi scheme scammer uses BTC to cover tracks - page 3.

lionheart78

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Quote from: WeThePe0ple on December 02, 2022, 05:35:18 AM

Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?

Yes, there are lots of cases where the owner of a Ponzi scheme is arrested even though they are under the guise of cryptocurrency. As long as there is complain, and enough evidence of the fraud, the person can be arrested.

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Quote from: WeThePe0ple on December 02, 2022, 05:35:18 AM

Now with BTC I think it is much harder to identify the scammer and to stop the scheme. I think it's harder for any government to prove that there is a Ponzi scheme in the first place

In fact, it is easier because Bitcoin blockchain is transparent and the transaction link can be viewed publicly.

panganib999

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Quote from: WeThePe0ple on December 02, 2022, 05:35:18 AM

I work in healthcare and one of my patients offered an investment opportunity to me.
Leaving any amount of money higher than 100 bucks untouched for 9 months, would result in a 600% return on investment.
Of course this is fraud, but I had to figure it out. It is a pyramid system in which withdrawals of people at the top, are funded by money from new "investors" at the bottom of the pyramid. My patient had made 2 previous withdrawals with success ($2500 profit and $9000 profit), and has now invested $10 000 expecting 60 000 in a few months.

When no new money enters the system, the bottom line of the pyramid loses their money and the creator of the scam takes it all.
The scammer asks to get paid in BTC, not in fiat currency.

Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?
Ponzi schemes don't last long. And historically these people are arrested because the source of the money is easily identified.
Now with BTC I think it is much harder to identify the scammer and to stop the scheme. I think it's harder for any government to prove that there is a Ponzi scheme in the first place

Unfortunately through the manner at which he requests the tithings be made, there wouldn't be any forms of lead that would direct the authorities to him, so unless you personally know the perpetrator of this scam yourself, it would be a little too hard to hold them accountable in court due to the lack of evidence. Then again there are some instances of people outing themselves as the founder of a project in its infancy, then taking the money for themselves that are eventually caught or at least put in the wanted list of the police, sometimes by the InterPol even, that being said this happens very scarcely so don't get your hopes up. The case with bitcoin's anonymity is truly a double-edged sword. It helps people be obscured for stuff and purchases they don't want revealed, at the same time causing wrong-doers to commit crimes scot-free

teosanru

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Quote from: WeThePe0ple on December 02, 2022, 05:35:18 AM

I work in healthcare and one of my patients offered an investment opportunity to me.
Leaving any amount of money higher than 100 bucks untouched for 9 months, would result in a 600% return on investment.
Of course this is fraud, but I had to figure it out. It is a pyramid system in which withdrawals of people at the top, are funded by money from new "investors" at the bottom of the pyramid. My patient had made 2 previous withdrawals with success ($2500 profit and $9000 profit), and has now invested $10 000 expecting 60 000 in a few months.

When no new money enters the system, the bottom line of the pyramid loses their money and the creator of the scam takes it all.
The scammer asks to get paid in BTC, not in fiat currency.

Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?
Ponzi schemes don't last long. And historically these people are arrested because the source of the money is easily identified.
Now with BTC I think it is much harder to identify the scammer and to stop the scheme. I think it's harder for any government to prove that there is a Ponzi scheme in the first place

It's difficult but possible. I mean if it's a pyramid scheme then eventually the root account can be identified based on the first transaction made to that wallet and that wallet might have had some fiat withdrawal or some sort of deposit which would have had KYC. I mean it's difficult and is more like searching in the dark but it's not entirely impossible if you ask me. With sophisticated computers this shouldn't be a long task but yes if he erases his websites and user databases then it will become very tricky.

uneng

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Try tracking the bitcoin address your friend made the deposit, so you will find the final destination of the money. If the scammer uses mixing crypto services, there is still hope. You can denounce the website or app to the police and their intelligence service can track the origins of the site owner, IP and every other details which can lead to the real identity of the scammer.

If the ponzi has social medias and other kinds of advertisements it's better yet. Without any doubts he must have left a gap on any of his accounts that could help authorities to reach "the pharaoh".

Ojima-ojo

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The ultimate question is, will law enforcement agencies do the work to arrest and persecute such scammer where we have CEO of exchange and other investment platform who file false bankruptcy order and walking away with investors, funds.

Not to mention how hard decentralization made is to discover the identity of wallet users and also if the scammer use Bitcoin mixing services it may become hard for the bitcoin to be trace.

Similar thing happens even in centralized banking system were their perform their scam-operating Ponzi scheme through the banking system and some time I can't stop but to wonder if scam collaboration exit between the bank, scammer, and law enforcement agencies.

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Quote from: Bitstar_coin on December 02, 2022, 09:51:53 AM

I really feel sorry for your friend for not stopping when he had the opportunity to do so. The first and second withdrawal was a golden opportunity to walk away with his money but greed has a way of taking over.
It is a bit surprising to know till now people still fall for ponzi scheme. No legit business will offer such a high %apy and able to survive.
Greed is a terrible thing and often result to a great loss. If he can get the right authorities involved, there is a high possibility their identity will be revealed and apprehended.

Sometimes they are not lured into these scams but voluntarily participate because they cannot control their greed. Many people think that they will be smarter than others, meaning they will invest and will quickly withdraw before the project collapses but unfortunately when they join, they are blinded by profits until they really lose everything, then they remember their original purpose. It is not possible to give advice to such people, the only way is to let them experience and draw lessons for themselves, even though it will be the most expensive lesson they have ever learned.

Bitstar_coin

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I really feel sorry for your friend for not stopping when he had the opportunity to do so. The first and second withdrawal was a golden opportunity to walk away with his money but greed has a way of taking over.
It is a bit surprising to know till now people still fall for ponzi scheme. No legit business will offer such a high %apy and able to survive.
Greed is a terrible thing and often result to a great loss. If he can get the right authorities involved, there is a high possibility their identity will be revealed and apprehended.

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Quote from: WeThePe0ple on December 02, 2022, 05:59:22 AM

~snip~

There is no justification for Ponzi schemes, regardless of who such information comes from, good friends or just acquaintances - the fact is that a lot of people will lose a lot of money in that story, and anyone who promotes it in any way is complicit in the final outcome. Not only will people lose money, but they can become victims of identity theft - and that's a much bigger problem than losing a few hundred or thousands of dollars.

@WeThePe0ple

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BlackHatCoiner

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Quote from: WeThePe0ple on December 02, 2022, 09:05:46 AM

The main one being that governments will find a way to fight against it.

Every single entity that is threatened by it is attacking it years now. Yet, against all odds, bitcoin somehow continues operating in a transparent, censorship-resistant manner, serving individuals with peer-to-peer transactions every 10 minutes. Apparently, humans always find a way to step closer to freedom.

Quote from: ?? on ??

And if you are high up in the pyramid, you might be able to have 2 successful withdrawals near the 10k range before the whole pyramid collapses from below.

The bet is greed. Very few are going to stop at 2 withdrawals if they see their balance going upwards.

WeThePe0ple

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Quote from: Zlantann on December 02, 2022, 06:44:40 AM

I hate when Bitcoin is associated with crime because it gives some anti-Bitcoin forces the privilege to make such news a newspaper headline. I have never invested in any Ponzi scheme and I would never do that.

I agree. And I have not invested in BTC (yet?) for various reasons. The main one being that governments will find a way to fight against it. And the excuse will be to associate it with crime. Although BTC is legitimate, its privacy allows for scammers to stay under the radar. And that is a pretty valid argument for governments and banks to go after BTC.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on December 02, 2022, 08:57:56 AM

We had a similar scheme in our country too. It only accepted cryptocurrencies and gave about that kind of percentages (I presume mostly to those on top). It burst after about a month. If it hasn't happened yet, be sure that it will.

But the scammer knows that nobody will invest large amounts of money if he does not allow them to withdraw substantial amounts of money (under 10k) at least once. And if you are high up in the pyramid, you might be able to have 2 successful withdrawals near the 10k range before the whole pyramid collapses from below.
The thing is that nobody knows where in the pyramid they are.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: WeThePe0ple on December 02, 2022, 05:35:18 AM

Leaving any amount of money higher than 100 bucks untouched for 9 months, would result in a 600% return on investment.

We had a similar scheme in our country too. It only accepted cryptocurrencies and gave about that kind of percentages (I presume mostly to those on top). It burst after about a month. If it hasn't happened yet, be sure that it will.

Quote from: WeThePe0ple on December 02, 2022, 05:35:18 AM

Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?

Yes, but bitcoin is cash and that's how you should treat it. The scammer shouldn't be considered dumb. He's likely going to use mixing and, just as cash, become untraceable.

pawanjain

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Nothing lasts forever

Bitcoin is pseudonymous which basically means it is no completely anonymous as it seems.
If the powerful agencies want to track the user they can still do it but that's not possible if a common man like us wants to track the user down.
At some point the scammer will use the money for something or will try to withdraw the money which is when the scammer is tracked down.
Although its not easy it is not impossible.

zasad@

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Quote from: WeThePe0ple on December 02, 2022, 05:35:18 AM

I work in healthcare and one of my patients offered an investment opportunity to me.
Leaving any amount of money higher than 100 bucks untouched for 9 months, would result in a 600% return on investment.
Of course this is fraud, but I had to figure it out. It is a pyramid system in which withdrawals of people at the top, are funded by money from new "investors" at the bottom of the pyramid. My patient had made 2 previous withdrawals with success ($2500 profit and $9000 profit), and has now invested $10 000 expecting 60 000 in a few months.

When no new money enters the system, the bottom line of the pyramid loses their money and the creator of the scam takes it all.
The scammer asks to get paid in BTC, not in fiat currency.

Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?
Ponzi schemes don't last long. And historically these people are arrested because the source of the money is easily identified.
Now with BTC I think it is much harder to identify the scammer and to stop the scheme. I think it's harder for any government to prove that there is a Ponzi scheme in the first place

There is a lot of such fraud in my country, but a very important point for a new participant to receive money is to attract new investors to this financial pyramid. If you do not bring new participants, then the organizers of the financial pyramid will not allow you to withdraw a lot of money. Therefore, the participants of the financial paramid are actively engaged in attracting new participants.

livingfree

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You're right with the description of these pyramiding scams and ponzi's. They're just getting the profit of the existing members from the new members and there goes the cycle.

As for tracking the btc address, it's very possible but it's harder than to be expected because it can sent through a mixer and switched or converted to privacy coins and other coins for them to be more harder to be tracked.

DdmrDdmr

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Quote from: WeThePe0ple on December 02, 2022, 05:59:22 AM

<…>

Although it is certainly going to turn out to be a scam, you could state what the website url so people can look into it further (i.e. place the url in a code structure so nobody clicks is inadvertently, or something like this: www[dot]domain[dot]extension).

Using as bait a x6 for locking bitcoin during 9 months is bound to get some people to fall for it, and a few may actually see some returns in order to get people to invest more, or to get some positive word-of-mouth spreading around.

What surprises me though is that, if your patient has already been able to make a withdrawal, then the scheme has been running at least for 9 months as per de conditions stated in the OP. That’s a pretty long time for a scheme of the sort, and perhaps the scammer’s strategy is based on a cultivated word-of-mouth promotion, rather that the classical quick email/social network procedure plus a pop-up site.

seoincorporation

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I don't think the ponzi owner is smart enough to cover his track, in some point he will need to use an exchange to conver the coins into real money, and there is where he can get tracked.

The best option is to report the address to the police and give all information you have to them, like the Ponzi website, phone number, or even some names. That would help the police to find who is behind that scam.

BTC can't be used to cover tracks, for that we have Monero Tongue

rat03gopoh

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Quote from: WeThePe0ple on December 02, 2022, 05:59:22 AM

I considered entering the scheme because the scammer is likely to let people take out profits under 10k.

What if they later change it to just under $100?

Quote

But I do have to register with my passport, and I don't feel comfortable uploading this to a scammer's website

At this point, you've lost.

It seems that you're really ambitious with that profit even though there is no guarantee at all that the next 9 months the capital you put in can even be returned intact. I think you better go to the casino site.

Zlantann

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Immediately anyone introduces a business or an investment scheme to me, the first question I asked is: How would the company make a profit after giving me all these large profits? Anyone can easily identify them with their enticing profits and benefits but greed and lack of contentment will always make people fall victim.

I hate when Bitcoin is associated with crime because it gives some anti-Bitcoin forces the privilege to make such news a newspaper headline. I have never invested in any Ponzi scheme and I would never do that.

so98nn

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You should search for this term on the Google “QNET”.

You will see stories of peeps around the globe who got scammed in millions of dollars and nobody knew how to recover the same. Though there is proper channel, valid registration of companies and if you go and complain about it to the authorities they will have answers to every steps that you took at the time of investing money and why you lost it.

When you register for the schemes they will add you to the down line and they will gift you holiday packages and take you to big 7 star hotels overseas and have meet ups.

They will literally brain wash you with all those pleasures and leisure trips and you will find yourself at a spot where it feels like dreamy and you can’t get out of it.

If you lodge complain about their fraud then they will simply tell court that they spent money on your trips, present all your photos and videos and airplane tickets and stuff.

They will cover A to Z trails and that’s why they are running smoothly till date.

The only difference is, it was used to be in fiat currency and now BITCOIN is way to make it more private and easy to convince.

pooya87

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Quote from: WeThePe0ple on December 02, 2022, 05:35:18 AM

would result in a 600% return on investment.

This type of scam is too obvious because it is pretty simple to debunk them. If there existed a method of investment that could give such a massive return they would never accept YOU as an investor! They would simply invest their own money and become billionaires in a short time...

Quote

Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?
Now with BTC I think it is much harder to identify the scammer and to stop the scheme. I think it's harder for any government to prove that there is a Ponzi scheme in the first place

It is both easy to find the scammer and arrest them and to prove this whole operation is a scam.
The real problem is whether the law enforcement going to do anything about it. Someone has to file a complaint and go through all the legal work to bring them down. In Ponzi schemes people don't do that until it is too late and the scammer has already ran away with their money.

Topic: Ponzi scheme scammer uses BTC to cover tracks - page 3. (Read 564 times)