[PPC] Peercoin - Indicium Logo & PeerAssets Diagram Released - page 11.

porcupine87

hero member

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hm

Quote from: masterOfDisaster on September 24, 2014, 03:57:00 AM

Quote from: Chillin_with_beer on September 24, 2014, 03:43:28 AM

What makes sure that the custodians keep behaving well? It might pay off to get elected as a custodian, and then park all your nubits instead of selling them for $1. Or keep the dollars after selling a big amount. Did I miss something?

From the white paper:
"It is likely custodians will demonstrate they hold a substantial quantity of NuShares so that shareholders know custodians' interests align with their own. It is likely that at some point a custodian will disappoint shareholders, but the damage they can cause is limited to the value of the grant they have already received."
It's like in the real world: if you delegate power, try to be sure to grant it to the right person.

Parking needs voting from holders of NuShares as far as I got it.

As far as I understand just the interest rate gets voted for. The higher the interest rate the more people will park.
And I think there are custodians which build up a reputation or proof that they have an interest in doing like they are told (like having a big stake in nushares).

porcupine87

hero member

Activity: 546

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hm

Quote from: Wekkel on September 24, 2014, 01:51:23 AM

From my perspective, this NuBits thing is simply too complicated and 'blessed' with the need for human interference. I wish them best.

hm, and Bitcoin is not complicated?

masterOfDisaster

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Quote from: Chillin_with_beer on September 24, 2014, 03:43:28 AM

What makes sure that the custodians keep behaving well? It might pay off to get elected as a custodian, and then park all your nubits instead of selling them for $1. Or keep the dollars after selling a big amount. Did I miss something?

From the white paper:
"It is likely custodians will demonstrate they hold a substantial quantity of NuShares so that shareholders know custodians' interests align with their own. It is likely that at some point a custodian will disappoint shareholders, but the damage they can cause is limited to the value of the grant they have already received."
It's like in the real world: if you delegate power, try to be sure to grant it to the right person.

Parking needs voting from holders of NuShares as far as I got it.

Chillin_with_beer

newbie

Activity: 43

Merit: 0

What makes sure that the custodians keep behaving well? It might pay off to get elected as a custodian, and then park all your nubits instead of selling them for $1. Or keep the dollars after selling a big amount. Did I miss something?

stdset

hero member

Activity: 572

Merit: 506

Quote from: Yurizhai on September 24, 2014, 02:47:03 AM

Quote

And nubits never get destroyed.

NuBits are destroyed in every transaction, just like Peercoin.

Quote

So amount of nubits is going to grow monotonically. This will inevitably lead to nubits collapse, as even interest alone (if it doesn't change over time) provide exponential growth of nubits amount.
How long this system will last depends on amount of trust. Why would someone park nubits to get more nubits? Ony if he's sure that he can always cash them out to USD at exchange rate close to 1.0. If that trust is alredy undermined some users will cash out, and the system will have to increase interest rate more and more to maintain bid walls, but the more interest the system pays the more nubits will go to sell side next time. Collapse is inevitable.
Am I wrong?

Interest will be 0 in times of high demand, and a fair amount in times of low. I do not believe this leads to exponential increases. Many people will choose to park NBT just for the interest paid.

It's always easy to do your business when demand for your product is high. By the way, when demand is high, amount of nubits in existence may grow much faster than even an exponent.
So basically transaction fees are your only hope. If your system enteres low demand mode, you need to destroy more nubits in transactions than you create when you pay interests. If there are not enough tps, you need to increase transaction fees, what makes your system even less popular, the system is now doomed anyway.

All in all, much simpler CoinoUSD seems to be much more viable to me.

Yurizhai

hero member

Activity: 764

Merit: 500

Quote

And nubits never get destroyed.

NuBits are destroyed in every transaction, just like Peercoin.

Quote

So amount of nubits is going to grow monotonically. This will inevitably lead to nubits collapse, as even interest alone (if it doesn't change over time) provide exponential growth of nubits amount.
How long this system will last depends on amount of trust. Why would someone park nubits to get more nubits? Ony if he's sure that he can always cash them out to USD at exchange rate close to 1.0. If that trust is alredy undermined some users will cash out, and the system will have to increase interest rate more and more to maintain bid walls, but the more interest the system pays the more nubits will go to sell side next time. Collapse is inevitable.
Am I wrong?

Interest will be 0 in times of high demand, and a fair amount in times of low. I do not believe this leads to exponential increases. Many people will choose to park NBT just for the interest paid.

stdset

hero member

Activity: 572

Merit: 506

As far as I understand, nubits are created in two ways:
1) To maintain ask walls.
2) As interest to those, who park their nubits when it's necessary to reduce amount in circulation.
And nubits never get destroyed. So amount of nubits is going to grow monotonically. This will inevitably lead to nubits collapse, as even interest alone (if it doesn't change over time) provide exponential growth of nubits amount.
How long this system will last depends on amount of trust. Why would someone park nubits to get more nubits? Ony if he's sure that he can always cash them out to USD at exchange rate close to 1.0. If that trust is alredy undermined some users will cash out, and the system will have to increase interest rate more and more to maintain bid walls, but the more interest the system pays the more nubits will go to sell side next time. Collapse is inevitable.
Am I wrong?

masterOfDisaster

sr. member

Activity: 321

Merit: 250

Quote from: ?? on ??

Nubits looks like a centralised coin to me. 1$ each? Without mining? Just so? Where these money go?
The only stable thing is the income of the 'custodians'.
Newbiets, the coin for newbies: that should be the name.

NuBits is the coin emitted by the "Nu bank", which is represented by the holders of NuShares. And because the NuShares are distributed (one might call it a "Distributed Anonymous Bank", DAB) you can't call it centralized.
If the bank that emits a currency is not centralized, the currency isn't, either.
And for sure the NuBits are created out of thin air - from where else without paying a "price" for their creation? If the bank had to pay for creating NuBits, it couldn't afford to buy and sell tham at an exact rate of 1 USD.

Wekkel

legendary

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Merit: 1538

yes

From my perspective, this NuBits thing is simply too complicated and 'blessed' with the need for human interference. I wish them best.

Yurizhai

hero member

Activity: 764

Merit: 500

Quote from: porcupine87 on September 24, 2014, 01:38:05 AM

Quote from: chryspano on September 24, 2014, 12:15:49 AM

I might got it wrong but your tools to stabilize prize is by auto selling in centralized exchanges and by offering high interest rates when the prize is too low?

EDIT
It seems I got it right...https://nubits.com/about/price-stability

Probably this explains the -25% peercoin price so far

Why is it centralized? There is not just one exchange. This gets elected by the network. AFAIN there are custodians which apply for a specific task. This could be developing an app or creating a sell wall at exchange Bter.com for a specific time. I have know idea if there is a mechanism to avoid cheating (why does the custodian not just run away?) neither do I know what profit they make for their effort.

The custodian will likely prove that they are a major stake holder in NuShares, so that their objectives are aligned with the rest of the shareholders.

porcupine87

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

hm

Quote from: chryspano on September 24, 2014, 12:15:49 AM

I might got it wrong but your tools to stabilize prize is by auto selling in centralized exchanges and by offering high interest rates when the prize is too low?

EDIT
It seems I got it right...https://nubits.com/about/price-stability

Probably this explains the -25% peercoin price so far

Why is it centralized? There is not just one exchange. This gets elected by the network. AFAIN there are custodians which apply for a specific task. This could be developing an app or creating a sell wall at exchange Bter.com for a specific time. I have know idea if there is a mechanism to avoid cheating (why does the custodian not just run away?) neither do I know what profit they make for their effort.

Yurizhai

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Activity: 764

Merit: 500

The objective is to lower the supply when demand is low, and increase when demand is high.

chryspano

legendary

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Merit: 1000

I might got it wrong but your tools to stabilize prize is by auto selling in centralized exchanges and by offering high interest rates when the prize is too low?

EDIT
It seems I got it right...https://nubits.com/about/price-stability

Probably this explains the -25% peercoin price so far

romerun

legendary

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1002

Bitcoin is new, makes sense to hodl.

How does NuBits compare with BitUsd ? They both try to peg USD if I have it right.

SpaceCadet

full member

Activity: 165

Merit: 100

Just mining my own business...

It's nice to see some real innovation being made instead of just another copy coin like you see in Altcoins! PPC itself was a major leap ahead, so this new idea has a heritage to live up to Cheesy

Sentinelrv

sr. member

Activity: 650

Merit: 318

Quote from: biophil on September 23, 2014, 01:00:06 PM

Nu is a clever system, but as soon as its details were revealed, it was obvious that it isn't going to have any direct impact on the PPC price. Sure, it will pay dividends in PPC, but that's not a net buying pressure. It could indirectly help PPC price by bringing new people into the ecosystem, etc, but paying dividends in PPC creates selling pressure (people cashing their dividends out) which exactly cancels out the buying pressure that comes from the Nu system acquiring the PPC in the first place.

I don't see why this would be the case. I think it's inevitable that many NuShareholders are also going to be Peercoin holders. Why would they sell? I know I wouldn't at least. And besides buying pressure, this relationship between the coins will help Peercoin in other ways. This quote is from a NuBits developer on our subreddit...

Quote

Peercoin holds a very important role in the design of NuBits. It is the incentive to build a better and stronger Nu Network. If Peercoin is not doing well then NuShare holders will lose out on their own incentive.

This will in time prove to be a beneficial symbiotic relationship between the coins. Improving the usability and utility of Peercoin is good for the NuShares holders as well.

Crestington

legendary

Activity: 882

Merit: 1024

It has defiantly caused a huge stir in the markets, the blowoff went for the most part went back into BTC, the volitility is wild.

thExit

newbie

Activity: 58

Merit: 0

NuBits, NuShares and the cryptosystem they create should have a positive effect on PPC, as stated earlier, not all of the shareholders will cash out of PPC paid through dividends. Besides, NuBits have the ability to absorb massive amounts of USD, if they can partially take over the role of USD in internet-related payments, the combined capital of NuBits and NuShares can overwhelm the capital of PPC itself.

It yet remains to be seen to what extent the capitalization of NuShares will grow and what kind of yield will they generate, but I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple of years the dividends paid to NuShareholders would constitute a significant % of the total PPC supply.

How much of USD will go into NuBits? A kind of reference might be the CoinDesk State of Bitcoin Q2 2014 report, pages 15 and 16, where it is mentioned what kind of services can be impacted by crypto-currency adoption. The numbers are astonishing.

Crestington

legendary

Activity: 882

Merit: 1024

What an epic crash for ppc, 385 down to 230 in a matter of 5 hours, more than 1 million USD in ppc sold on the market. I'm not sure it was such a good move to go with such secrecy and the countdown considering nubits has little to do with the ppc price and may cause a fair bit of downward pressure.

masterOfDisaster

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Activity: 321

Merit: 250

Quote from: Yurizhai on September 23, 2014, 01:05:00 PM

Quote from: biophil on September 23, 2014, 01:00:06 PM

Nu is a clever system, but as soon as its details were revealed, it was obvious that it isn't going to have any direct impact on the PPC price. Sure, it will pay dividends in PPC, but that's not a net buying pressure. It could indirectly help PPC price by bringing new people into the ecosystem, etc, but paying dividends in PPC creates selling pressure (people cashing their dividends out) which exactly cancels out the buying pressure that comes from the Nu system acquiring the PPC in the first place.

Only if literally every single person sells 100% of their dividends, which is unlikely to happen. Especially if NuBits is showing success and the system is growing.

If _all_ people cash their dividends out, it will cancel out the demand for having bought the dividend PPC.

But if only a fraction of people tend to keep their PPC this will lead to an increasing PPC price level.
Do you really expect all NuShare holders to do that, to cash out at instant?

I expect some people not to cash out, because NuShares might also attract people who already own Peercoins.
...and they have Peercoins, because they did not cash those Peercoins out yet Wink

Topic: [PPC] Peercoin - Indicium Logo & PeerAssets Diagram Released - page 11. (Read 50060 times)