Topic: 🌟🚀 [Pre-ANN] AZULIK: adding privacy to DAG fee-less instant transactions 🌟🚀 - page 11. (Read 7245 times)
January 22, 2018, 05:18:24 AM
Is this your first ever crypto project or do you bring any experience in blockchain development to the table? Copying something like RaiBlocks and improving it isn't an easy task to do.
January 22, 2018, 05:03:41 AM
Diassapointed, for sure.
On the other hand, that's one hell of a report. Where can I buy Airforce Research Labratory Coin?
On the other hand, that's one hell of a report. Where can I buy Airforce Research Labratory Coin?
Hello,
First of all our whitepaper is not currently up to date and will be updated and finished in the coming weeks.
We mentioned that we have several candidate for the privacy protocol and yes one of them is a military protocol used by the US air force and declassified less than 10 years ago.
We have tested these approaches and exposed the results, we believe it would be more interesting to discuss these results as well as our global way to handle privacy as described here:
The TRON defense
January 22, 2018, 02:36:38 AM
As for practical aspects:
1. Do you expect to implement light node/wallet (this is on raiblock list) so some reuse may happen.
2. Even with zkSNARKS/etc there's still risk of leaking IP. Monero will be using Kovri for this (and they have explanation why TOR wont work), will you add this to your roadmap?
3. Distribution is still not clear, I Want to get some, either through whatever mechanism is used or through donation - can you make donation percentage allocation clear at some point soon?
Also:
How can I help? I am a SWE in one of the FANG companies with good opensource experience. I find less and less free time after working on my side project, but this looks sufficiently interesting to pause them.
Azulik people, can you please comment on this?
Hello, that is very interresting questions:
1- Light node/wallet will be our top priority, a new version of the synch system has recently been proposed on Github :
Quote
This patchset adds a new message type "bulk_pull_blocks" (0x09) which allows one to request from a
node a range of blocks (min_hash to max_hash). Alternatively, the checksum for a range of blocks can
be requested to determine if it is likely that there are new blocks in that range that need to be pulled.
Further, a limited number of blocks can be requested by specifying a non-zero "max_count" argument.
The advantage over the existing bulk_pull (I assume you meant bulk_pull, and not block_pull ?) is that bulk_pull accepts an account as a start and a block as an end, so to use it to synchronize the bootstrap database requires a lot of request-reply cycles, especially for accounts that have few transactions. bulk_pull_blocks accepts a range of blocks, so you can pull in just a set of blocks, alternatively requesting a checksum before doing the transfer to see if the transfer is likely to be needed. This mechanism brings a full sync down to under 5 minutes
node a range of blocks (min_hash to max_hash). Alternatively, the checksum for a range of blocks can
be requested to determine if it is likely that there are new blocks in that range that need to be pulled.
Further, a limited number of blocks can be requested by specifying a non-zero "max_count" argument.
The advantage over the existing bulk_pull (I assume you meant bulk_pull, and not block_pull ?) is that bulk_pull accepts an account as a start and a block as an end, so to use it to synchronize the bootstrap database requires a lot of request-reply cycles, especially for accounts that have few transactions. bulk_pull_blocks accepts a range of blocks, so you can pull in just a set of blocks, alternatively requesting a checksum before doing the transfer to see if the transfer is likely to be needed. This mechanism brings a full sync down to under 5 minutes
We think it will really help to make very efficient light wallet and we will apply the bulk_pull.
2- It's not currently in our roadmap, for us the privacy is something very important for mass adoption. The main priority is to hide wallet balance and transaction if we want people to use Azulik in the real life. What you mentioned could be added in the future but isn't currently our priority.
3- We have updated the first page which should be more clear now about the distribution.
Regarding the help you offer, it's very interesting thank you for that we will discuss together and contact you through private message to check with you.
January 22, 2018, 02:27:05 AM
Diassapointed, for sure.
On the other hand, that's one hell of a report. Where can I buy Airforce Research Labratory Coin?
On the other hand, that's one hell of a report. Where can I buy Airforce Research Labratory Coin?
Hello,
First of all our whitepaper is not currently up to date and will be updated and finished in the coming weeks.
We mentioned that we have several candidate for the privacy protocol and yes one of them is a military protocol used by the US air force and declassified less than 10 years ago.
We have tested these approaches and exposed the results, we believe it would be more interesting to discuss these results as well as our global way to handle privacy as described here:
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/7/1516527377-azulikproject.jpg
January 21, 2018, 10:53:07 PM
I almost fell for Stone, watching Manta closely, and adding Azulik to the list.
Wanted to write why i think byteballs black bytes are not the best way to implement this:
1. It's peer to peer and not stored on the graph, and needs to be exchanged later.
2. To keep them 'yours', you need to either back them up or use multisig wallet to keep them synced.
Neither is ideal.
In one of the messages you mentioned 1. instant transactions OR privacy.
Privacy must be default - this is monero's approach. I concur. IN the end state, if cryptos become the default way of doing payments, not many people will enable privacy, and those that will will be under scrutiny.
Zcash does zkSNARKS but your claim is it's not easy to apply it to DAG (i am not sure, didn't think deeply, and haven't yet read the paper fully). With Zcash there are t- and z- wallets, which are kind of interesting to work with. Didn't look ideal after getting used to monero.
You mentioned privacy would reduce throughput and increae transaction time significantly, by how much?
As for practical aspects:
1. Do you expect to implement light node/wallet (this is on raiblock list) so some reuse may happen.
2. Even with zkSNARKS/etc there's still risk of leaking IP. Monero will be using Kovri for this (and they have explanation why TOR wont work), will you add this to your roadmap?
3. Distribution is still not clear, I Want to get some, either through whatever mechanism is used or through donation - can you make donation percentage allocation clear at some point soon?
Also:
How can I help? I am a SWE in one of the FANG companies with good opensource experience. I find less and less free time after working on my side project, but this looks sufficiently interesting to pause them.
Wanted to write why i think byteballs black bytes are not the best way to implement this:
1. It's peer to peer and not stored on the graph, and needs to be exchanged later.
2. To keep them 'yours', you need to either back them up or use multisig wallet to keep them synced.
Neither is ideal.
In one of the messages you mentioned 1. instant transactions OR privacy.
Privacy must be default - this is monero's approach. I concur. IN the end state, if cryptos become the default way of doing payments, not many people will enable privacy, and those that will will be under scrutiny.
Zcash does zkSNARKS but your claim is it's not easy to apply it to DAG (i am not sure, didn't think deeply, and haven't yet read the paper fully). With Zcash there are t- and z- wallets, which are kind of interesting to work with. Didn't look ideal after getting used to monero.
You mentioned privacy would reduce throughput and increae transaction time significantly, by how much?
As for practical aspects:
1. Do you expect to implement light node/wallet (this is on raiblock list) so some reuse may happen.
2. Even with zkSNARKS/etc there's still risk of leaking IP. Monero will be using Kovri for this (and they have explanation why TOR wont work), will you add this to your roadmap?
3. Distribution is still not clear, I Want to get some, either through whatever mechanism is used or through donation - can you make donation percentage allocation clear at some point soon?
Also:
How can I help? I am a SWE in one of the FANG companies with good opensource experience. I find less and less free time after working on my side project, but this looks sufficiently interesting to pause them.
Azulik people, can you please comment on this?
January 21, 2018, 07:59:05 PM
Diassapointed, for sure.
On the other hand, that's one hell of a report. Where can I buy Airforce Research Labratory Coin?
On the other hand, that's one hell of a report. Where can I buy Airforce Research Labratory Coin?
January 21, 2018, 07:44:34 PM
Looks like some parts of the whitepaper are copied from this: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a540835.pdf
In particular, Figure 2 of the whitepaper is Figure 8 of the paper I linked. And much of section 4 whitepaper are directly copied. For instance, these sentences appear in both documents:
"The prover (P) chooses randomly an isomorphism PI to permute the G and then sends a commitment to this new graph PI(G)..."
"The permutations used by the prover are unnecessary information for the verifier, as checking that the edges revealed form a path is a simple task
without the knowledge of the permutations"
This is pretty disappointing.
In particular, Figure 2 of the whitepaper is Figure 8 of the paper I linked. And much of section 4 whitepaper are directly copied. For instance, these sentences appear in both documents:
"The prover (P) chooses randomly an isomorphism PI to permute the G and then sends a commitment to this new graph PI(G)..."
"The permutations used by the prover are unnecessary information for the verifier, as checking that the edges revealed form a path is a simple task
without the knowledge of the permutations"
This is pretty disappointing.
January 21, 2018, 04:58:47 PM
Hi,
It will be valued at the rate of the day we stop the donation.
It will be valued at the rate of the day we stop the donation.
January 21, 2018, 03:35:23 PM
Great to see your progress and will be following your project regularly. Hope it becomes a success.
I have a question. Will the donations be valued at rate at the time of donation for distributing 30% of supply of Azulik coins?
I have a question. Will the donations be valued at rate at the time of donation for distributing 30% of supply of Azulik coins?
January 21, 2018, 03:12:34 PM
We have updated all our results, and the front page.
Thanks for all your donations, we continue the hard work for all the weekend.
Thanks for all your donations, we continue the hard work for all the weekend.
January 21, 2018, 12:34:56 PM
That's a very impressive work you have done.
Great idea, great project and the team deliver as promised.
Great idea, great project and the team deliver as promised.
January 21, 2018, 12:30:33 PM
Is this another project without any GitHub?
January 21, 2018, 12:00:20 PM
Dag is getting popular now, adding privacy plus less fees and fast tx is a great idea. Many will support this project as I do.
January 21, 2018, 07:12:35 AM
First of all, thank you for all of your messages. They are really documented and very interesting. We will give further details below:
Here are the main results of our simulations. We will try to keep it clear and easy for everyone. Please feel free to ask for further details. The idea here is to test three approaches: ZK-Snarks, recursive-ZK-Snakrs (linearisation), and WPI.
As a benchmark, we used a simple DAG. We then simulated transactions/nodes and calculated the time needed.
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/6/1516471445-finalresultsazulik.jpg
On the left, you can see that (among the three approaches) one allows to have transaction time really close to the simple DAG (without privacy). We can confirm these results with the figure on the right where we plotted the difference against the benchmark.
So, here we are, we have selected the Privacy protocol we will apply. We still have some analysis to do, but we are very confident with this approach.
Azulik will be the first Freemium cryptocurrency.
You’ll be able to realise instant, fee-less transactions, and adding privacy will only requiere a very small fee. Read below because what we have to show you is amazing.
First, we need to understand the issue, Raiblocks uses DPOS (delegated proof of stake), hence having complete privacy would hide users’ balances and break the whole DPOS system. The idea is to have two wallets: one public and one private.
So, you are wondering: If I have the choice, I could put all my Azulik in the private wallet and the DPOS wouldn’t work anymore .
Yes, you are right and that’s why we need an intencive to make people stay in the public wallet and participate in the DPOS. All the fees collected through private transactions will be sent back to the user depending on their Azulik balance.
It means that keeping your Azulik in your public wallet, even if you don’t do transactions, will return you a percentage of the daily fees spent on the private network. One percent of the transaction fees will be split between the nodes, hence you will get paid to run the node. The other 99% will be redistributed to the network. Assuming that the portfolio weight is distributed like a Gaussian law and that the number of transactions is equal or higher to the number of users, we can say that, on average, you’ll get 99% of your fees back.
So even if the fee is very low (and probably dynamic depending on the number of nodes on the network), you’ll get back a lot of the fees you pay for you private transactions. Remember, it’s still free and instant to send or receive Azulik with your public wallet.
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/7/1516527377-azulikproject.jpg
The main upside is that we will have a natural anti-spam protocol for private transactions, hence we can remove the POW to sending or receiving. It also means that it will make transactions even faster so they can be used in the mobile wallet.
Let’s take an example: You reveive your salary in your public wallet, then you send a part of your salary to your private wallet that you call Shopping Wallet.
Usually with Raiblocks, when you pay for a coffee, the bar can check your balance, where the money came from, and so on. Here, you can use you private wallet to pay and nothing will appear. Your transaction will be shown on the public wallet, but there is no link between the public and private wallet so it’s impossible to know who owns any given public wallet.
We believe this is the most elegant way to apply privacy on a DAG DPOS protocol
Do not hesitate to ask all the questions or concerns you may have, we would be happy to provide further details.
To summarise:
- We have designed and tested our privacy protocol
- Azulik will be more decentralized than Raiblocks
- It will be as fast as raiblocks for both private and public transactions
- Engage loyal users with daily rewards
- Very small fee for private transactions
- On average: private transactions are almost free
What next:
Here, you have everything you need to understand Azulik. We know you want a proper whitepaper and to see some code.
We can say that we will be able to deliver a proper whitepaper in about a month. Regarding the code, we will have to find a secure way to show you. As you know, there are other projects aiming to do the same thing and, in months, they proposed/delivered nothing new besides "We will merge Zk-Snarks and Raiblocks.” We like open source projects but we don't want our hard work to be stolen. So, in a bit of time, I think we will have a clearer picture about these two other projects and we will be able to deliver code. However, on our side, we will start implementing Azulik. To be honest, we can't expect the first test to be done before two or three months.
The idea is great, solving 3 problems easily, I'll be waiting for your commit in github to test!Here are the main results of our simulations. We will try to keep it clear and easy for everyone. Please feel free to ask for further details. The idea here is to test three approaches: ZK-Snarks, recursive-ZK-Snakrs (linearisation), and WPI.
As a benchmark, we used a simple DAG. We then simulated transactions/nodes and calculated the time needed.
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/6/1516471445-finalresultsazulik.jpg
On the left, you can see that (among the three approaches) one allows to have transaction time really close to the simple DAG (without privacy). We can confirm these results with the figure on the right where we plotted the difference against the benchmark.
So, here we are, we have selected the Privacy protocol we will apply. We still have some analysis to do, but we are very confident with this approach.
Azulik will be the first Freemium cryptocurrency.
You’ll be able to realise instant, fee-less transactions, and adding privacy will only requiere a very small fee. Read below because what we have to show you is amazing.
First, we need to understand the issue, Raiblocks uses DPOS (delegated proof of stake), hence having complete privacy would hide users’ balances and break the whole DPOS system. The idea is to have two wallets: one public and one private.
So, you are wondering: If I have the choice, I could put all my Azulik in the private wallet and the DPOS wouldn’t work anymore .
Yes, you are right and that’s why we need an intencive to make people stay in the public wallet and participate in the DPOS. All the fees collected through private transactions will be sent back to the user depending on their Azulik balance.
It means that keeping your Azulik in your public wallet, even if you don’t do transactions, will return you a percentage of the daily fees spent on the private network. One percent of the transaction fees will be split between the nodes, hence you will get paid to run the node. The other 99% will be redistributed to the network. Assuming that the portfolio weight is distributed like a Gaussian law and that the number of transactions is equal or higher to the number of users, we can say that, on average, you’ll get 99% of your fees back.
So even if the fee is very low (and probably dynamic depending on the number of nodes on the network), you’ll get back a lot of the fees you pay for you private transactions. Remember, it’s still free and instant to send or receive Azulik with your public wallet.
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/7/1516527377-azulikproject.jpg
The main upside is that we will have a natural anti-spam protocol for private transactions, hence we can remove the POW to sending or receiving. It also means that it will make transactions even faster so they can be used in the mobile wallet.
Let’s take an example: You reveive your salary in your public wallet, then you send a part of your salary to your private wallet that you call Shopping Wallet.
Usually with Raiblocks, when you pay for a coffee, the bar can check your balance, where the money came from, and so on. Here, you can use you private wallet to pay and nothing will appear. Your transaction will be shown on the public wallet, but there is no link between the public and private wallet so it’s impossible to know who owns any given public wallet.
We believe this is the most elegant way to apply privacy on a DAG DPOS protocol
Do not hesitate to ask all the questions or concerns you may have, we would be happy to provide further details.
To summarise:
- We have designed and tested our privacy protocol
- Azulik will be more decentralized than Raiblocks
- It will be as fast as raiblocks for both private and public transactions
- Engage loyal users with daily rewards
- Very small fee for private transactions
- On average: private transactions are almost free
What next:
Here, you have everything you need to understand Azulik. We know you want a proper whitepaper and to see some code.
We can say that we will be able to deliver a proper whitepaper in about a month. Regarding the code, we will have to find a secure way to show you. As you know, there are other projects aiming to do the same thing and, in months, they proposed/delivered nothing new besides "We will merge Zk-Snarks and Raiblocks.” We like open source projects but we don't want our hard work to be stolen. So, in a bit of time, I think we will have a clearer picture about these two other projects and we will be able to deliver code. However, on our side, we will start implementing Azulik. To be honest, we can't expect the first test to be done before two or three months.
Now you have an idea how to solve the problem of the distribution of the coins
? January 21, 2018, 05:20:16 AM
You're starting to show nice results !
Even if it's optionnal Privacy, the way you seems to find can really work.
I'll be able to help for the French translation, when you will need
Even if it's optionnal Privacy, the way you seems to find can really work.
I'll be able to help for the French translation, when you will need
Thank you for your help Yodax, we know you previously suggested it must be a full privacy protocol, however, it wouldn't be possible to apply a full privacy on a DPOS. So we think our approach is well balanced between keeping Raiblocks philosophy and adding privacy.
January 21, 2018, 05:15:49 AM
First of all, thank you for all of your messages. They are really documented and very interesting. We will give further details below:
Here are the main results of our simulations. We will try to keep it clear and easy for everyone. Please feel free to ask for further details. The idea here is to test three approaches: ZK-Snarks, recursive-ZK-Snakrs (linearisation), and WPI.
As a benchmark, we used a simple DAG. We then simulated transactions/nodes and calculated the time needed.
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/6/1516471445-finalresultsazulik.jpg
On the left, you can see that (among the three approaches) one allows to have transaction time really close to the simple DAG (without privacy). We can confirm these results with the figure on the right where we plotted the difference against the benchmark.
So, here we are, we have selected the Privacy protocol we will apply. We still have some analysis to do, but we are very confident with this approach.
Azulik will be the first Freemium cryptocurrency.
You’ll be able to realise instant, fee-less transactions, and adding privacy will only requiere a very small fee. Read below because what we have to show you is amazing.
First, we need to understand the issue, Raiblocks uses DPOS (delegated proof of stake), hence having complete privacy would hide users’ balances and break the whole DPOS system. The idea is to have two wallets: one public and one private.
So, you are wondering: If I have the choice, I could put all my Azulik in the private wallet and the DPOS wouldn’t work anymore .
Yes, you are right and that’s why we need an intencive to make people stay in the public wallet and participate in the DPOS. All the fees collected through private transactions will be sent back to the user depending on their Azulik balance.
It means that keeping your Azulik in your public wallet, even if you don’t do transactions, will return you a percentage of the daily fees spent on the private network. One percent of the transaction fees will be split between the nodes, hence you will get paid to run the node. The other 99% will be redistributed to the network. Assuming that the portfolio weight is distributed like a Gaussian law and that the number of transactions is equal or higher to the number of users, we can say that, on average, you’ll get 99% of your fees back.
So even if the fee is very low (and probably dynamic depending on the number of nodes on the network), you’ll get back a lot of the fees you pay for you private transactions. Remember, it’s still free and instant to send or receive Azulik with your public wallet.
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/7/1516527377-azulikproject.jpg
The main upside is that we will have a natural anti-spam protocol for private transactions, hence we can remove the POW to sending or receiving. It also means that it will make transactions even faster so they can be used in the mobile wallet.
Let’s take an example: You reveive your salary in your public wallet, then you send a part of your salary to your private wallet that you call Shopping Wallet.
Usually with Raiblocks, when you pay for a coffee, the bar can check your balance, where the money came from, and so on. Here, you can use you private wallet to pay and nothing will appear. Your transaction will be shown on the public wallet, but there is no link between the public and private wallet so it’s impossible to know who owns any given public wallet.
We believe this is the most elegant way to apply privacy on a DAG DPOS protocol
Do not hesitate to ask all the questions or concerns you may have, we would be happy to provide further details.
To summarise:
- We have designed and tested our privacy protocol
- Azulik will be more decentralized than Raiblocks
- It will be as fast as raiblocks for both private and public transactions
- Engage loyal users with daily rewards
- Very small fee for private transactions
- On average: private transactions are almost free
What next:
Here, you have everything you need to understand Azulik. We know you want a proper whitepaper and to see some code.
We can say that we will be able to deliver a proper whitepaper in about a month. Regarding the code, we will have to find a secure way to show you. As you know, there are other projects aiming to do the same thing and, in months, they proposed/delivered nothing new besides "We will merge Zk-Snarks and Raiblocks.” We like open source projects but we don't want our hard work to be stolen. So, in a bit of time, I think we will have a clearer picture about these two other projects and we will be able to deliver code. However, on our side, we will start implementing Azulik. To be honest, we can't expect the first test to be done before two or three months.
Here are the main results of our simulations. We will try to keep it clear and easy for everyone. Please feel free to ask for further details. The idea here is to test three approaches: ZK-Snarks, recursive-ZK-Snakrs (linearisation), and WPI.
As a benchmark, we used a simple DAG. We then simulated transactions/nodes and calculated the time needed.
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/6/1516471445-finalresultsazulik.jpg
On the left, you can see that (among the three approaches) one allows to have transaction time really close to the simple DAG (without privacy). We can confirm these results with the figure on the right where we plotted the difference against the benchmark.
So, here we are, we have selected the Privacy protocol we will apply. We still have some analysis to do, but we are very confident with this approach.
Azulik will be the first Freemium cryptocurrency.
You’ll be able to realise instant, fee-less transactions, and adding privacy will only requiere a very small fee. Read below because what we have to show you is amazing.
First, we need to understand the issue, Raiblocks uses DPOS (delegated proof of stake), hence having complete privacy would hide users’ balances and break the whole DPOS system. The idea is to have two wallets: one public and one private.
So, you are wondering: If I have the choice, I could put all my Azulik in the private wallet and the DPOS wouldn’t work anymore .
Yes, you are right and that’s why we need an intencive to make people stay in the public wallet and participate in the DPOS. All the fees collected through private transactions will be sent back to the user depending on their Azulik balance.
It means that keeping your Azulik in your public wallet, even if you don’t do transactions, will return you a percentage of the daily fees spent on the private network. One percent of the transaction fees will be split between the nodes, hence you will get paid to run the node. The other 99% will be redistributed to the network. Assuming that the portfolio weight is distributed like a Gaussian law and that the number of transactions is equal or higher to the number of users, we can say that, on average, you’ll get 99% of your fees back.
So even if the fee is very low (and probably dynamic depending on the number of nodes on the network), you’ll get back a lot of the fees you pay for you private transactions. Remember, it’s still free and instant to send or receive Azulik with your public wallet.
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/7/1516527377-azulikproject.jpg
The main upside is that we will have a natural anti-spam protocol for private transactions, hence we can remove the POW to sending or receiving. It also means that it will make transactions even faster so they can be used in the mobile wallet.
Let’s take an example: You reveive your salary in your public wallet, then you send a part of your salary to your private wallet that you call Shopping Wallet.
Usually with Raiblocks, when you pay for a coffee, the bar can check your balance, where the money came from, and so on. Here, you can use you private wallet to pay and nothing will appear. Your transaction will be shown on the public wallet, but there is no link between the public and private wallet so it’s impossible to know who owns any given public wallet.
We believe this is the most elegant way to apply privacy on a DAG DPOS protocol
Do not hesitate to ask all the questions or concerns you may have, we would be happy to provide further details.
To summarise:
- We have designed and tested our privacy protocol
- Azulik will be more decentralized than Raiblocks
- It will be as fast as raiblocks for both private and public transactions
- Engage loyal users with daily rewards
- Very small fee for private transactions
- On average: private transactions are almost free
What next:
Here, you have everything you need to understand Azulik. We know you want a proper whitepaper and to see some code.
We can say that we will be able to deliver a proper whitepaper in about a month. Regarding the code, we will have to find a secure way to show you. As you know, there are other projects aiming to do the same thing and, in months, they proposed/delivered nothing new besides "We will merge Zk-Snarks and Raiblocks.” We like open source projects but we don't want our hard work to be stolen. So, in a bit of time, I think we will have a clearer picture about these two other projects and we will be able to deliver code. However, on our side, we will start implementing Azulik. To be honest, we can't expect the first test to be done before two or three months.
You're starting to show nice results !
Even if it's optionnal Privacy, the way you seems to find can really work.
I'll be able to help for the French translation, when you will need
January 21, 2018, 04:46:30 AM
First of all, thank you for all of your messages. They are really documented and very interesting. We will give further details below:
Here are the main results of our simulations. We will try to keep it clear and easy for everyone. Please feel free to ask for further details. The idea here is to test three approaches: ZK-Snarks, recursive-ZK-Snakrs (linearisation), and WPI.
As a benchmark, we used a simple DAG. We then simulated transactions/nodes and calculated the time needed.
On the left, you can see that (among the three approaches) one allows to have transaction time really close to the simple DAG (without privacy). We can confirm these results with the figure on the right where we plotted the difference against the benchmark.
So, here we are, we have selected the Privacy protocol we will apply. We still have some analysis to do, but we are very confident with this approach.
Azulik will be the first Freemium cryptocurrency.
You’ll be able to realise instant, fee-less transactions, and adding privacy will only requiere a very small fee. Read below because what we have to show you is amazing.
First, we need to understand the issue, Raiblocks uses DPOS (delegated proof of stake), hence having complete privacy would hide users’ balances and break the whole DPOS system. The idea is to have two wallets: one public and one private.
So, you are wondering: If I have the choice, I could put all my Azulik in the private wallet and the DPOS wouldn’t work anymore .
Yes, you are right and that’s why we need an intencive to make people stay in the public wallet and participate in the DPOS. All the fees collected through private transactions will be sent back to the user depending on their Azulik balance.
It means that keeping your Azulik in your public wallet, even if you don’t do transactions, will return you a percentage of the daily fees spent on the private network. One percent of the transaction fees will be split between the nodes, hence you will get paid to run the node. The other 99% will be redistributed to the network. Assuming that the portfolio weight is distributed like a Gaussian law and that the number of transactions is equal or higher to the number of users, we can say that, on average, you’ll get 99% of your fees back.
So even if the fee is very low (and probably dynamic depending on the number of nodes on the network), you’ll get back a lot of the fees you pay for you private transactions. Remember, it’s still free and instant to send or receive Azulik with your public wallet.
The main upside is that we will have a natural anti-spam protocol for private transactions, hence we can remove the POW to sending or receiving. It also means that it will make transactions even faster so they can be used in the mobile wallet.
Let’s take an example: You reveive your salary in your public wallet, then you send a part of your salary to your private wallet that you call Shopping Wallet.
Usually with Raiblocks, when you pay for a coffee, the bar can check your balance, where the money came from, and so on. Here, you can use you private wallet to pay and nothing will appear. Your transaction will be shown on the public wallet, but there is no link between the public and private wallet so it’s impossible to know who owns any given public wallet.
We believe this is the most elegant way to apply privacy on a DAG DPOS protocol
Do not hesitate to ask all the questions or concerns you may have, we would be happy to provide further details.
To summarise:
- We have designed and tested our privacy protocol
- Azulik will be more decentralized than Raiblocks
- It will be as fast as raiblocks for both private and public transactions
- Engage loyal users with daily rewards
- Very small fee for private transactions
- On average: private transactions are almost free
What next:
Here, you have everything you need to understand Azulik. We know you want a proper whitepaper and to see some code.
We can say that we will be able to deliver a proper whitepaper in about a month. Regarding the code, we will have to find a secure way to show you. As you know, there are other projects aiming to do the same thing and, in months, they proposed/delivered nothing new besides "We will merge Zk-Snarks and Raiblocks.” We like open source projects but we don't want our hard work to be stolen. So, in a bit of time, I think we will have a clearer picture about these two other projects and we will be able to deliver code. However, on our side, we will start implementing Azulik. To be honest, we can't expect the first test to be done before two or three months.
Here are the main results of our simulations. We will try to keep it clear and easy for everyone. Please feel free to ask for further details. The idea here is to test three approaches: ZK-Snarks, recursive-ZK-Snakrs (linearisation), and WPI.
As a benchmark, we used a simple DAG. We then simulated transactions/nodes and calculated the time needed.
On the left, you can see that (among the three approaches) one allows to have transaction time really close to the simple DAG (without privacy). We can confirm these results with the figure on the right where we plotted the difference against the benchmark.
So, here we are, we have selected the Privacy protocol we will apply. We still have some analysis to do, but we are very confident with this approach.
Azulik will be the first Freemium cryptocurrency.
You’ll be able to realise instant, fee-less transactions, and adding privacy will only requiere a very small fee. Read below because what we have to show you is amazing.
First, we need to understand the issue, Raiblocks uses DPOS (delegated proof of stake), hence having complete privacy would hide users’ balances and break the whole DPOS system. The idea is to have two wallets: one public and one private.
So, you are wondering: If I have the choice, I could put all my Azulik in the private wallet and the DPOS wouldn’t work anymore .
Yes, you are right and that’s why we need an intencive to make people stay in the public wallet and participate in the DPOS. All the fees collected through private transactions will be sent back to the user depending on their Azulik balance.
It means that keeping your Azulik in your public wallet, even if you don’t do transactions, will return you a percentage of the daily fees spent on the private network. One percent of the transaction fees will be split between the nodes, hence you will get paid to run the node. The other 99% will be redistributed to the network. Assuming that the portfolio weight is distributed like a Gaussian law and that the number of transactions is equal or higher to the number of users, we can say that, on average, you’ll get 99% of your fees back.
So even if the fee is very low (and probably dynamic depending on the number of nodes on the network), you’ll get back a lot of the fees you pay for you private transactions. Remember, it’s still free and instant to send or receive Azulik with your public wallet.
The main upside is that we will have a natural anti-spam protocol for private transactions, hence we can remove the POW to sending or receiving. It also means that it will make transactions even faster so they can be used in the mobile wallet.
Let’s take an example: You reveive your salary in your public wallet, then you send a part of your salary to your private wallet that you call Shopping Wallet.
Usually with Raiblocks, when you pay for a coffee, the bar can check your balance, where the money came from, and so on. Here, you can use you private wallet to pay and nothing will appear. Your transaction will be shown on the public wallet, but there is no link between the public and private wallet so it’s impossible to know who owns any given public wallet.
We believe this is the most elegant way to apply privacy on a DAG DPOS protocol
Do not hesitate to ask all the questions or concerns you may have, we would be happy to provide further details.
To summarise:
- We have designed and tested our privacy protocol
- Azulik will be more decentralized than Raiblocks
- It will be as fast as raiblocks for both private and public transactions
- Engage loyal users with daily rewards
- Very small fee for private transactions
- On average: private transactions are almost free
What next:
Here, you have everything you need to understand Azulik. We know you want a proper whitepaper and to see some code.
We can say that we will be able to deliver a proper whitepaper in about a month. Regarding the code, we will have to find a secure way to show you. As you know, there are other projects aiming to do the same thing and, in months, they proposed/delivered nothing new besides "We will merge Zk-Snarks and Raiblocks.” We like open source projects but we don't want our hard work to be stolen. So, in a bit of time, I think we will have a clearer picture about these two other projects and we will be able to deliver code. However, on our side, we will start implementing Azulik. To be honest, we can't expect the first test to be done before two or three months.
Clearly it's really cool what you have done here, can we know which approache represent ZK-Snarks, recursive-ZK-Snakrs (linearisation), and WPI or your want to keep the results for you at the momment ?
Great job it's very impressive, you protocol is very simple and smart, it's to me the only realistic way to add privacy on Raiblocks.
Well done, great team so far.
January 21, 2018, 04:38:04 AM
First of all, thank you for all of your messages. They are really documented and very interesting. We will give further details below:
Here are the main results of our simulations. We will try to keep it clear and easy for everyone. Please feel free to ask for further details. The idea here is to test three approaches: ZK-Snarks, recursive-ZK-Snakrs (linearisation), and WPI.
As a benchmark, we used a simple DAG. We then simulated transactions/nodes and calculated the time needed.
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/6/1516471445-finalresultsazulik.jpg
On the left, you can see that (among the three approaches) one allows to have transaction time really close to the simple DAG (without privacy). We can confirm these results with the figure on the right where we plotted the difference against the benchmark.
So, here we are, we have selected the Privacy protocol we will apply. We still have some analysis to do, but we are very confident with this approach.
Azulik will be the first Freemium cryptocurrency.
You’ll be able to realise instant, fee-less transactions, and adding privacy will only requiere a very small fee. Read below because what we have to show you is amazing.
First, we need to understand the issue, Raiblocks uses DPOS (delegated proof of stake), hence having complete privacy would hide users’ balances and break the whole DPOS system. The idea is to have two wallets: one public and one private.
So, you are wondering: If I have the choice, I could put all my Azulik in the private wallet and the DPOS wouldn’t work anymore .
Yes, you are right and that’s why we need an intencive to make people stay in the public wallet and participate in the DPOS. All the fees collected through private transactions will be sent back to the user depending on their Azulik balance.
It means that keeping your Azulik in your public wallet, even if you don’t do transactions, will return you a percentage of the daily fees spent on the private network. One percent of the transaction fees will be split between the nodes, hence you will get paid to run the node. The other 99% will be redistributed to the network. Assuming that the portfolio weight is distributed like a Gaussian law and that the number of transactions is equal or higher to the number of users, we can say that, on average, you’ll get 99% of your fees back.
So even if the fee is very low (and probably dynamic depending on the number of nodes on the network), you’ll get back a lot of the fees you pay for you private transactions. Remember, it’s still free and instant to send or receive Azulik with your public wallet.
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/7/1516527377-azulikproject.jpg
The main upside is that we will have a natural anti-spam protocol for private transactions, hence we can remove the POW to sending or receiving. It also means that it will make transactions even faster so they can be used in the mobile wallet.
Let’s take an example: You reveive your salary in your public wallet, then you send a part of your salary to your private wallet that you call Shopping Wallet.
Usually with Raiblocks, when you pay for a coffee, the bar can check your balance, where the money came from, and so on. Here, you can use you private wallet to pay and nothing will appear. Your transaction will be shown on the public wallet, but there is no link between the public and private wallet so it’s impossible to know who owns any given public wallet.
We believe this is the most elegant way to apply privacy on a DAG DPOS protocol
Do not hesitate to ask all the questions or concerns you may have, we would be happy to provide further details.
To summarise:
- We have designed and tested our privacy protocol
- Azulik will be more decentralized than Raiblocks
- It will be as fast as raiblocks for both private and public transactions
- Engage loyal users with daily rewards
- Very small fee for private transactions
- On average: private transactions are almost free
What next:
Here, you have everything you need to understand Azulik. We know you want a proper whitepaper and to see some code.
We can say that we will be able to deliver a proper whitepaper in about a month. Regarding the code, we will have to find a secure way to show you. As you know, there are other projects aiming to do the same thing and, in months, they proposed/delivered nothing new besides "We will merge Zk-Snarks and Raiblocks.” We like open source projects but we don't want our hard work to be stolen. So, in a bit of time, I think we will have a clearer picture about these two other projects and we will be able to deliver code. However, on our side, we will start implementing Azulik. To be honest, we can't expect the first test to be done before two or three months.
Here are the main results of our simulations. We will try to keep it clear and easy for everyone. Please feel free to ask for further details. The idea here is to test three approaches: ZK-Snarks, recursive-ZK-Snakrs (linearisation), and WPI.
As a benchmark, we used a simple DAG. We then simulated transactions/nodes and calculated the time needed.
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/6/1516471445-finalresultsazulik.jpg
On the left, you can see that (among the three approaches) one allows to have transaction time really close to the simple DAG (without privacy). We can confirm these results with the figure on the right where we plotted the difference against the benchmark.
So, here we are, we have selected the Privacy protocol we will apply. We still have some analysis to do, but we are very confident with this approach.
Azulik will be the first Freemium cryptocurrency.
You’ll be able to realise instant, fee-less transactions, and adding privacy will only requiere a very small fee. Read below because what we have to show you is amazing.
First, we need to understand the issue, Raiblocks uses DPOS (delegated proof of stake), hence having complete privacy would hide users’ balances and break the whole DPOS system. The idea is to have two wallets: one public and one private.
So, you are wondering: If I have the choice, I could put all my Azulik in the private wallet and the DPOS wouldn’t work anymore .
Yes, you are right and that’s why we need an intencive to make people stay in the public wallet and participate in the DPOS. All the fees collected through private transactions will be sent back to the user depending on their Azulik balance.
It means that keeping your Azulik in your public wallet, even if you don’t do transactions, will return you a percentage of the daily fees spent on the private network. One percent of the transaction fees will be split between the nodes, hence you will get paid to run the node. The other 99% will be redistributed to the network. Assuming that the portfolio weight is distributed like a Gaussian law and that the number of transactions is equal or higher to the number of users, we can say that, on average, you’ll get 99% of your fees back.
So even if the fee is very low (and probably dynamic depending on the number of nodes on the network), you’ll get back a lot of the fees you pay for you private transactions. Remember, it’s still free and instant to send or receive Azulik with your public wallet.
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/7/1516527377-azulikproject.jpg
The main upside is that we will have a natural anti-spam protocol for private transactions, hence we can remove the POW to sending or receiving. It also means that it will make transactions even faster so they can be used in the mobile wallet.
Let’s take an example: You reveive your salary in your public wallet, then you send a part of your salary to your private wallet that you call Shopping Wallet.
Usually with Raiblocks, when you pay for a coffee, the bar can check your balance, where the money came from, and so on. Here, you can use you private wallet to pay and nothing will appear. Your transaction will be shown on the public wallet, but there is no link between the public and private wallet so it’s impossible to know who owns any given public wallet.
We believe this is the most elegant way to apply privacy on a DAG DPOS protocol
Do not hesitate to ask all the questions or concerns you may have, we would be happy to provide further details.
To summarise:
- We have designed and tested our privacy protocol
- Azulik will be more decentralized than Raiblocks
- It will be as fast as raiblocks for both private and public transactions
- Engage loyal users with daily rewards
- Very small fee for private transactions
- On average: private transactions are almost free
What next:
Here, you have everything you need to understand Azulik. We know you want a proper whitepaper and to see some code.
We can say that we will be able to deliver a proper whitepaper in about a month. Regarding the code, we will have to find a secure way to show you. As you know, there are other projects aiming to do the same thing and, in months, they proposed/delivered nothing new besides "We will merge Zk-Snarks and Raiblocks.” We like open source projects but we don't want our hard work to be stolen. So, in a bit of time, I think we will have a clearer picture about these two other projects and we will be able to deliver code. However, on our side, we will start implementing Azulik. To be honest, we can't expect the first test to be done before two or three months.
January 20, 2018, 05:36:43 PM
Hi, since I saw you accept help, I apply for the italian translation if you need.
January 20, 2018, 05:13:14 PM
Raiblocks is one of the most interesting new technologies from my point of view, adding privacy to your project will be innovative as well, but you will also need to improve the wallet. I will be accompanying the project.
One doubt, the project will be similar in the question of available quantities?
Will all mining be done before?
One doubt, the project will be similar in the question of available quantities?
Will all mining be done before?
Jump to: