Gold will never go out of fashion, and will be regarded as valuable always.
Incorrect. See my prior post for why. Again idiots won't agree, and that is because they are idiots.
Topic: Precious metals are not useful in a collapse scenario! - page 4. (Read 13427 times)
Incorrect. See my prior post for why. Again idiots won't agree, and that is because they are idiots.
Gold will never go out of fashion, and will be regarded as valuable always.
Except in a situation where you are minutes away from starving... then food/water trumps everything
Except in a situation where you are minutes away from starving... then food/water trumps everything
Any one buying precious metals right now and not Bitcoin @$700 is an idiot.
Idiots should not read this:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.17458485
...
I had an interesting conversation yesterday with a realtor here in town.
He (he and his wife are from Spain and maintain connections to their friends & families there) told me that European countries will definitely raise taxes (esp. on the "rich"), as they WILL NOT cut spending (no votes in cutting spending).
And they will do things like introduce NEW taxes, apparently real estate is not heavily taxed (it is kind of heavily taxed here, it varies by state, but 1% - 2% of real estate value goes to "Property Tax").
Europe already has high Income Tax as well as a VAT that is typically 17% - 21%.
He was NOT optimistic re Europe and "Economic Totalitarianism", he is getting inquiries from Norwegians, etc. who are looking to US property as a "Plan B" (smile).
I had an interesting conversation yesterday with a realtor here in town.
He (he and his wife are from Spain and maintain connections to their friends & families there) told me that European countries will definitely raise taxes (esp. on the "rich"), as they WILL NOT cut spending (no votes in cutting spending).
And they will do things like introduce NEW taxes, apparently real estate is not heavily taxed (it is kind of heavily taxed here, it varies by state, but 1% - 2% of real estate value goes to "Property Tax").
Europe already has high Income Tax as well as a VAT that is typically 17% - 21%.
He was NOT optimistic re Europe and "Economic Totalitarianism", he is getting inquiries from Norwegians, etc. who are looking to US property as a "Plan B" (smile).
Taxes will rise on everything tangible (including precious metals) that is why you hide your assets in crypto-currency where they can only tax the fiat on/off ramps (exchanges).
That is why precious metals are inferior because you can't spend them directly (and this will unit-of-exchange feature never come back for metals! Not even in a mad-max collapse scenario) and thus they are taxed/confiscated at the exchanges/dealers or when you travel with them; whereas, for example with the new social network I will create on a crypto-currency, your crypto-currency will be very liquid.
Precious metals are so stupid now. You can't even move without having them confiscated. Keep them in a vault business and the government knows where to go confiscate them.
It really depends on your definition of "a collapse scenario" are we talking fiat currency collapse of a single country, a global collapse of fiat currencies, a single country/global collapse of government systems due to wide scale emergency like you see in horror movies, etc?
Two types. Collapse of the financial system with capital controls that causes much hardship, but doesn't go feral. The more severe type of collapse to consider is chaos and warlordism such as the Serbian crisis.
First of all, Bitcoin/digital currencies are still very much in their infancy. Right now, its all a proof of concept. If you want to claim that digital currencies are stable enough to overtake the traditional fiat system, or replace them in case of some major global issue, I would disagree with that, and I'm speaking as someone who is a huge fan of cryptocurrencies.
Change is much faster in the Knowledge Age. A quarterback doesn't throw the football to where the receiver is now, but where he will be in 2 seconds from now (which is many meters away).
If you think in a scenario major enough to interrupt global economies/governments, that people will continue to keep network infrastructure maintained and the blockchain moving along, I'd beg to differ.
The elite will never let their control grid go down. They will engineer a monetary reset with the necessary suffering and chaos to get nation-states to acquiesce to the SDRs. Jim Rickards latest book applies.
Digital currencies heavily rely on major communication services and the power grid which would be disrupted in a global catastrophe.
Depends on the type of crisis. Unless we enter a full scale global hot war, we are not going to have chaos and warlordism in every country in the world. No the more likely scenario is the one Jim Rickards explains.
Things that are not necessary if you are trying to survive. In addition, if you take development and stagnate it because the Bitcoin dev teams are busy trying to keep the wolves out of their chicken coops, best case scenario, Bitcoin would be put on a backburner until things restore themselves.
Actually not. Humans work in teams with maximum division-of-labor. Someone gathers food, while someone else is the solving technical problems.
Bitcoin is relatively difficult to get into even today. You need a couple hundred dollar smartphone or laptop at the very least, electricity, internet connection, and relatively elevated technical knowledge.
Nope. I made $7000+ blogging on Steemit and converted it to BTC at poloniex. Things are changing so fast, you aren't even paying attention.
Silver is very heavily involved in medicine, antibiotics, etc, so I think it would fare pretty well as well.
Handwaving. That has nothing to do with function as money.
If we are talking about a collapse situation where trust is lost in government currencies, and they collapse but there is no major chaos, I think Bitcoin and metals will do pretty well.
Digital currency will do exceptionally well. Precious metals are going to fail you in every way. Mark my word.
Otherwise, I'd invest in Solar cells, copper/silver/gold, steel, gun powder, medicines, and food/water.
Agreed, if enter that Madmax type of collapse.
As a side note, government confiscation of metals is something that shady coin dealers try to threaten metal newbies with to get them to buy higher premium lower metal content collectible stuff that they make higher margins on. Its not going to happen, enforcement would be wayyyyy too difficult, and it would be incredibly dangerous to try and enforce. Even when gold was "confiscated" in the 1933 it was to essentially invalidate gold certificates. It didn't really stop too many people from holding gold, otherwise you wouldn't see any pre 1933 gold coins in circulation.
They won't need to confiscate it. You will willingly throw it into the street. Mark my word.
Possession of precious metals in large quantities for anything other than token amounts of ornamental or collectors use, will have you labeled as a money launderer, a miser 1% rich who steals from 99% of society, and a bad person who doesn't benefit society. The society-at-large (even your own children) will despise you. The government will make sensationalized case examples.
You will have no way to trade it at a profit. And you will risk incriminating yourself.
The institutional support (vaults, dealers, etc) will also disappear and those that remain become so highly regulated.
It simply won't be worth it.
At least with crypto-currency, you will be able to trade it without the locals physically close to you knowing that you did.
It really depends on your definition of "a collapse scenario" are we talking fiat currency collapse of a single country, a global collapse of fiat currencies, a single country/global collapse of government systems due to wide scale emergency like you see in horror movies, etc?
First of all, Bitcoin/digital currencies are still very much in their infancy. Right now, its all a proof of concept. If you want to claim that digital currencies are stable enough to overtake the traditional fiat system, or replace them in case of some major global issue, I would disagree with that, and I'm speaking as someone who is a huge fan of cryptocurrencies. If you think in a scenario major enough to interrupt global economies/governments, that people will continue to keep network infrastructure maintained and the blockchain moving along, I'd beg to differ. Digital currencies heavily rely on major communication services and the power grid which would be disrupted in a global catastrophe. Things that are not necessary if you are trying to survive. In addition, if you take development and stagnate it because the Bitcoin dev teams are busy trying to keep the wolves out of their chicken coops, best case scenario, Bitcoin would be put on a backburner until things restore themselves.
Money is only a thing if everyone can easily accept it. Otherwise we go back to direct commodity trading. If you are starving, a can of beans is worth more to you than a pound of gold if no one is willing to trade you their beans. Bitcoin is relatively difficult to get into even today. You need a couple hundred dollar smartphone or laptop at the very least, electricity, internet connection, and relatively elevated technical knowledge. It would become near impossible to use under certain situations. Gold has been a standard of exchange world wide, so I imagine that if wouldn't lose that status for no reason. Silver is very heavily involved in medicine, antibiotics, etc, so I think it would fare pretty well as well. Not sure how useful Rhodium would be, but metals would likely stay useful enough to be a universal currency.
If we are talking about a collapse situation where trust is lost in government currencies, and they collapse but there is no major chaos, I think Bitcoin and metals will do pretty well. Otherwise, I'd invest in Solar cells, copper/silver/gold, steel, gun powder, medicines, and food/water.
*edit*
As a side note, government confiscation of metals is something that shady coin dealers try to threaten metal newbies with to get them to buy higher premium lower metal content collectible stuff that they make higher margins on. Its not going to happen, enforcement would be wayyyyy too difficult, and it would be incredibly dangerous to try and enforce. Even when gold was "confiscated" in the 1933 it was to essentially invalidate gold certificates. It didn't really stop too many people from holding gold, otherwise you wouldn't see any pre 1933 gold coins in circulation.
First of all, Bitcoin/digital currencies are still very much in their infancy. Right now, its all a proof of concept. If you want to claim that digital currencies are stable enough to overtake the traditional fiat system, or replace them in case of some major global issue, I would disagree with that, and I'm speaking as someone who is a huge fan of cryptocurrencies. If you think in a scenario major enough to interrupt global economies/governments, that people will continue to keep network infrastructure maintained and the blockchain moving along, I'd beg to differ. Digital currencies heavily rely on major communication services and the power grid which would be disrupted in a global catastrophe. Things that are not necessary if you are trying to survive. In addition, if you take development and stagnate it because the Bitcoin dev teams are busy trying to keep the wolves out of their chicken coops, best case scenario, Bitcoin would be put on a backburner until things restore themselves.
Money is only a thing if everyone can easily accept it. Otherwise we go back to direct commodity trading. If you are starving, a can of beans is worth more to you than a pound of gold if no one is willing to trade you their beans. Bitcoin is relatively difficult to get into even today. You need a couple hundred dollar smartphone or laptop at the very least, electricity, internet connection, and relatively elevated technical knowledge. It would become near impossible to use under certain situations. Gold has been a standard of exchange world wide, so I imagine that if wouldn't lose that status for no reason. Silver is very heavily involved in medicine, antibiotics, etc, so I think it would fare pretty well as well. Not sure how useful Rhodium would be, but metals would likely stay useful enough to be a universal currency.
If we are talking about a collapse situation where trust is lost in government currencies, and they collapse but there is no major chaos, I think Bitcoin and metals will do pretty well. Otherwise, I'd invest in Solar cells, copper/silver/gold, steel, gun powder, medicines, and food/water.
*edit*
As a side note, government confiscation of metals is something that shady coin dealers try to threaten metal newbies with to get them to buy higher premium lower metal content collectible stuff that they make higher margins on. Its not going to happen, enforcement would be wayyyyy too difficult, and it would be incredibly dangerous to try and enforce. Even when gold was "confiscated" in the 1933 it was to essentially invalidate gold certificates. It didn't really stop too many people from holding gold, otherwise you wouldn't see any pre 1933 gold coins in circulation.
It is going to be funny watching the tinfoil hats scream when the spot price is so high in the future, but it classifies them as a money launderer for them to sell and/or the taxes are 90+% (after penalties and fines for not reporting, etc)..
I suppose the tinfoil hats are planning a future life as criminals constantly under threat of being hunted by the law and imprisoned. You are being isolated as an extremist cult by society-at-large.
Gold above small quantities as jewelry per individual (married females can have more than men) is now illegal in India.
The society is killing precious metals as a store-of-value. It is over. We are moving on to digital currency...
I suppose the tinfoil hats are planning a future life as criminals constantly under threat of being hunted by the law and imprisoned. You are being isolated as an extremist cult by society-at-large.
Gold above small quantities as jewelry per individual (married females can have more than men) is now illegal in India.
The society is killing precious metals as a store-of-value. It is over. We are moving on to digital currency...
Meanwhile in India there are 50% premiums for physical gold from the spot paper price.
Your predictions of paper gold don't matter, only metal is gold, paper is paper.
The Bible may be right about gold but it also says nobody knows when is the end of times, could be a couple of thousand years from now. If you believe what the Bible says, believe both things not only what's convenient for you to believe.
Besides, this is not specifically about gold and silver, but any riches men possess on Judgement Day. Your ingenious cryptocoin for microtransactions unfortunately too.
Your predictions of paper gold don't matter, only metal is gold, paper is paper.
The Bible may be right about gold but it also says nobody knows when is the end of times, could be a couple of thousand years from now. If you believe what the Bible says, believe both things not only what's convenient for you to believe.
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They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD: they shall not satisfy their souls, neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumblingblock of their iniquity.
Quote
But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Besides, this is not specifically about gold and silver, but any riches men possess on Judgement Day. Your ingenious cryptocoin for microtransactions unfortunately too.
People go into so much trouble to dig out gold and have been doing for millennia. Now we're supposed to believe this is going to end in a few years.
Gold is dying because physical economy is dying, what are you going to eat in the Knowledge Age, computer bytes, and transport yourself around on radio waves? LOL, this guy AnonyMint is so funny.
This is scary how the mine is 2.5 miles deep underground.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-11/descend-worlds-deepest-gold-mine
Gold is dying because physical economy is dying, what are you going to eat in the Knowledge Age, computer bytes, and transport yourself around on radio waves? LOL, this guy AnonyMint is so funny.
This is scary how the mine is 2.5 miles deep underground.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-11/descend-worlds-deepest-gold-mine
Before really was no alternative to precious metals. New technological capabilities allow us to keep the money in different countries in different currencies and the most important thing is not to store and transport their savings in cash.
I am looking for an altcoin that can turn the youth away from Socialism and towards being productive:
Bernie Sander's Millennials Socialism is Coming...
Surely they will feel better about themselves being productive and earning their own TAXABLE money, than stealing from others.
Please spread this message to the spoiled-brat Millennials
Bernie Sander's Millennials Socialism is Coming...
Surely they will feel better about themselves being productive and earning their own TAXABLE money, than stealing from others.
Please spread this message to the spoiled-brat Millennials
Ah yes I was thinking it was 500 ounces.
500 grams is much less, but I still doubt the average person owns $20,000 worth of gold.
This will still only have an effect on the very wealthy. Some might buy some Bitcoin, but I assume most are going to hide money in offshore accounts and companies outside their country.
500 grams is much less, but I still doubt the average person owns $20,000 worth of gold.
This will still only have an effect on the very wealthy. Some might buy some Bitcoin, but I assume most are going to hide money in offshore accounts and companies outside their country.
The intended effect is that it will be impractical to use gold as form of tax avoiding cash. You can bury gold in the ground and never use it, because that it no threat at all to the government's desire to tax everything that moves. Have fun eating your gold or watching it sit there useless in the ground while the economic opportunities move on without you.
The elite are moving the tangible economy to electronic currency that is tracked for taxes.
They will use the poor as a weapon against the middle class. The poor will avidly support increased taxation because the government will promise them free things. In India, the government is recently offering a basic level of free food and medical care system support to the indigent. This is a big deal because in the past 1/3 of Indians only ate once a day.
The poor see these increased taxation as ending corruption and funding the support for the poor. They don't realize it is the laying the seeds for tax slavery.
But we in the crypto-currency currency arena can offer the poor a better deal than what the government can give them. We can offer them a job in the virtual economy where they can become independently a middle class person. And then they will hate taxes.
I am working on this now. Steem(it) was the first (failed) example. We can onboard the billions into crypto-currency by giving them currency when they do work on a social network. We can change the economy of the world.
Tinfoil hats are doing nothing. They are stuck in an unimaginative old world fight over tangible resources. Iron used to be a precious metal. Everyone needs to understand we live in an age of surplus and we are moving to a Knowledge Age:
You will probably need a week or two of studying the thread slowly.
I will be the first to admit I needed a week to fully absorb the following works of AnonyMint.
The Rise of Knowledge <--- READ THIS
Understand Everything Fundamentally
Together these are quite simply the most insightful piece of economic theory I have ever read.
If the author is right and I think he is we are all in the midst of a tragedy of epic proportions. It is sad unstoppable and will devastate the lives of much of humanity.
...
This "refutation" is based upon the concept that if a virtual currency focuses on something other than micro-transactions it will be shut down by the the "state".
My quoted logic had nothing to do with the "state".
Edit: Monero is not even suitable for micro transactions by design, with minimum transaction fees likely to remain around or above 0.01 USD over time in real terms. This is not to say that micro transactions are not a viable market in its own right, but rather than there are likely much better suited solutions for this market. The opportunity for Monero in the micro transactions market may actually be in the on and possible off ramps for these solutions. So for a virtual currency focused on micro transactions Monero is not even a competitor.
I think microtransactions are the big enchilada. And not just monetary microtransactions.
Anonymity is so incredibly unrealistic and it is fighting against the socialism. Please see my prior post which was a refutation of the tinfoil hats. I have more debate with them at the following thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/precious-metals-are-not-useful-in-a-collapse-scenario-1665943
Although I originally was a tinfoil hat and originally touted the importance of anonymity, I am now coming to the realization that we don't win by hiding from society. We win by changing the economy of society.
Lol, what an imbecile.
I guess you read about gold in books too.
I guess you read about gold in books too.
Oh wow, I don't know where to begin. In all the books I've read on American Indians their elders teach youngsters to remain cool-headed and not scream like old ladies. How much Cherokee blood is in you exactly, it has to be something small and insignificant, you completely missed the education. Maybe books lied and all American Indians are like that, I don't want to believe it. I'd shoot you down in a second if you tried something savage against me as a few percentage of your Cherokee blood calls you to do, there is no time for a dick measuring contest.
Back to gold and India. It should be a warning to the rest of the world, the smart ones will take heed and act upon it.
And it seem both of you imbeciles forgot that the main point of this thread is not whether you can bury your gold in the ground (I never denied that), but whether you can spend your gold for anything in a collapse scenario.
iamnotback you have a serious attiute problem.
3226 posts in 5 months, perhaps if you spent more time in the real world then you could put your superior financial knowledge in to practise and become rich.
Subject title is bullshit. India did not outlaw gold. As always was the case, gold can be purchased with after-tax money.
The new thing is that the gov is now demanding that all gold be shown to be purchased with after-tax money. And, apparently, resorting to draconian measures to determine if each person's gold above some threshold has been purchased accordingly.
But it has not made gold illegal.
The new thing is that the gov is now demanding that all gold be shown to be purchased with after-tax money. And, apparently, resorting to draconian measures to determine if each person's gold above some threshold has been purchased accordingly.
But it has not made gold illegal.
So when has the Communist government ever stopped at its original limited action?
This is only the first step.
The leader of India was put there by Goldman Sachs. He is there to move India to electronic currency. Watch and observe how it is done by turning the poor against all forms of cash.
India has not banned gold, there are rumours at this point and nothing more.
What they are going door to door looking for gold in a population of 1.3 billion people after giving advance notice they are coming, good luck with that
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Shit just got real. Citizens homes will be searched and 85% of wealth will be confiscated.
What they are going door to door looking for gold in a population of 1.3 billion people after giving advance notice they are coming, good luck with that
Until they bribe your neighbors to turn you in.
Perhaps you haven't been to the 3rd world and noticed that you don't have much privacy. I live in the Philippines which less densely populated than India, and I promise you I can't even urinate behind a tree without someone seeing me.
The government's ban has been very popular in India. The majority support the "fight against black money".
You have more than 500 grams of gold, then your neighbor is jealous because you have more than your fair share.
Haven't you realized that we live in socialism now.
Large quantities of gold are going to be an albatross around your neck.
People in the rest of the world aren't as trustful of their governments and are not inclined to abide by such laws.
You don't seem to be in touch with the reality that the world is now "99% versus the 1%", which means everything that is yours is your neighbors.
You're a white American boy, you are trained to respect authority
You little chickenshit (and not very smart either). I have been living in the 3rd world since I was 26 years old in 1991. I already challenged you to bring your brave Eastern European asshole to me face, so we can see who is better equipped to kick some ass.
I am not pure white. I have enough Cherokee indian blood to make me fucking crazy enough to rip your head off if you piss me off. I have been through enough shit here in the 3rd world to entirely remove the American civility from my attitude when provoked. Try me.
And it seem both of you imbeciles forgot that the main point of this thread is not whether you can bury your gold in the ground (I never denied that), but whether you can spend your gold for anything in a collapse scenario. Who the fuck is going to accept your gold in India when the government makes it illegal and is bribing your neighbor to rat on anyone who is "getting more than their fair share by trading in gold".
Imbeciles just please back up your pickup trucks and stack more gold. As much as possible, because I am going to be laughing at you when you realize you fucked up big time.
(latinos and blacks in US are better equipped naturally to withstand this bullshit)
Perhaps Eastern Europeans with their failed socialist economies admire the Latinos in California:
Every Household in California Owes $93,000 to Pay for State Pensions
Stanford University has been tracking the cost of pensions in California. So while there is a movement starting to separate from the United States especially since they wanted Hillary, California will soon fall on its face and then will be begging Washington for a handout. The real amount owed by every household in California to cover state pensions jumped to $93,000 in 2015 up from $77,700 per household in 2014.
California may be the most socialistic state in the union, so expect them to also be among the first to collapse despite being the fifth largest economy in the world if looked at as their own nation. Go ahead – leave; but take your pensions with you please! There are two categories of fools: (1) are those who believe what isn’t true; and (2) those who refuse to believe what is true. Socialists seem to come in both varieties.
Millions of Socialists, have murdered and killed those who disagree with them. The opponents of Marxism have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards this mythical land of perfect harmony and utopia. The net result has only been war and conflict and to prove that one half the world is composed of fools and hypocrites who just want to be taken care-of, yet willing to surrender their independence while pretending to be independent.
Stanford University has been tracking the cost of pensions in California. So while there is a movement starting to separate from the United States especially since they wanted Hillary, California will soon fall on its face and then will be begging Washington for a handout. The real amount owed by every household in California to cover state pensions jumped to $93,000 in 2015 up from $77,700 per household in 2014.
California may be the most socialistic state in the union, so expect them to also be among the first to collapse despite being the fifth largest economy in the world if looked at as their own nation. Go ahead – leave; but take your pensions with you please! There are two categories of fools: (1) are those who believe what isn’t true; and (2) those who refuse to believe what is true. Socialists seem to come in both varieties.
Millions of Socialists, have murdered and killed those who disagree with them. The opponents of Marxism have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards this mythical land of perfect harmony and utopia. The net result has only been war and conflict and to prove that one half the world is composed of fools and hypocrites who just want to be taken care-of, yet willing to surrender their independence while pretending to be independent.
India has not banned gold, there are rumours at this point and nothing more.
What they are going door to door looking for gold in a population of 1.3 billion people after giving advance notice they are coming, good luck with that
Quote
Shit just got real. Citizens homes will be searched and 85% of wealth will be confiscated.
What they are going door to door looking for gold in a population of 1.3 billion people after giving advance notice they are coming, good luck with that
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