Premier League Prediction Thread 2021/2022 - page 2356.

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Quote from: Coyster on November 28, 2023, 11:48:48 AM

Quote from: RaltcoinsB on November 28, 2023, 11:34:36 AM

Arsenal are bad at continuity. Manchester, on the other hand, is more experienced in terms of consistency.

This current group of City players are so used to winning the EPL, something that this current Arsenal team are lacking, this is why City are favorites to win the league and why they become unstoppable when we get to the later stages of the season. Arsenal are getting closer anyway, they might not win the league this season, but in a few years time they prolly would, they learnt their lessons last season and if they fail again this season, they'll learn more things along the way as well, the Arsenal hierarchy basically have to keep Arteta at the club and support him, sooner or later they'd be EPL champions again.

Before the arrival of Pep Guardiola as Manchester City coach, Manchester City wasn't this formidable as a team to be winning the Premier League every given season. It was the arrival of Pep Guardiola that changed everything and it took some time before Manchester City became the tough and best team they are today.

The same thing is bound to happen to Arsenal if Arteta is given the chance and time to keep coaching Arsenal, not minding if he lifts the 2023/2024 Premier League title or not. The focus should be to, let Arteta build Arsenal to be formidable like during the time of Tiery Henry, and Kanu Nwakwo

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Quote from: Stable090 on November 28, 2023, 01:22:46 PM

Quote from: RaltcoinsB on November 28, 2023, 11:34:36 AM

It is true that they handed over the leadership to Arsenal because of the 4 points Manchester City lost against 2 difficult teams, but there is only 1 point between them and Manchester City is good enough to complete this period as champion. Arsenal are bad at continuity. Manchester, on the other hand, is more experienced in terms of consistency.

Everyone is expecting Arsenal to drop from the first position soon since they are just ahead of Manchester City with just a point difference. We all saw what happened to Arsenal last season, they were ahead of Manchester City, which was in the second position with a reasonable amount of points, which everyone was thinking Manchester City wouldn’t be able to cover up, but we all saw how Arsenal wasted the great opportunity that they had last season. Everyone has been saying Arteta has learned from his mistake, but I just hope he has really done so. But I don’t still believe Arsenal can stay in the first position for a long time, we shouldn’t be talking about winning the league yet.

Everyone is expecting Arsenal to drop from the top of the English premier League because they are used to dropping when they are needed the most. It is not a new thing . But considering them giving up the English premier title to City few matches to end the Premier League last season, I do not blame them because their players were really used up. Fatigue is real and there's no way a team who do not have a solid squad depth can run away from fatigue.
This year's story might be different because of some signings done by Arsenal.

Quote from: Coyster on November 28, 2023, 11:48:48 AM

Quote from: RaltcoinsB on November 28, 2023, 11:34:36 AM

Arsenal are bad at continuity. Manchester, on the other hand, is more experienced in terms of consistency.

This current group of City players are so used to winning the EPL, something that this current Arsenal team are lacking, this is why City are favorites to win the league and why they become unstoppable when we get to the later stages of the season. Arsenal are getting closer anyway, they might not win the league this season, but in a few years time they prolly would, they learnt their lessons last season and if they fail again this season, they'll learn more things along the way as well, the Arsenal hierarchy basically have to keep Arteta at the club and support him, sooner or later they'd be EPL champions again.

This simply shows that experience has a very big role to play in football. It is not only having quality players. You can understand according to your statement that Arsenal players are used to winning the English premier League, so there's no pressure, they how to do it and it works for them. That was the same leverage that Real Madrid was using in the champions league, such that they could win the champions league even when they are not the better team.

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Quote from: Miles2006 on November 28, 2023, 03:25:02 AM

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No doubt on this that Arsenal are now topping the table and all Arsenal fans are excited and feel that they will be able to maintain the first position till the end of the season. But we should not judge with only yesterday match that made them to be able to top the league where as Man City has been sitting on the first position for quite some time now.

The victory against Brentford made good luck for Arsenal in itself, Man City and Liverpool only share points which makes Arsenal fans feel confident for this season, even though it is still in the middle of the season at least Arsenal is able to overtake these two tough clubs, because it will be difficult for other clubs. to compete with Man City and Liverpool, the scenario created by Arsenal is very good and effective in occupying the top of the standings for a while.

The results obtained in the Manchester City vs Liverpool match only provide a temporary advantage for Arsenal because as said, it hasn't even reached the middle of the season so many things can happen, even last season when Arsenal were already 5 points ahead they failed to maintain that advantage especially now where their competitors are not just Manchester City like last season but there is Liverpool who are performing quite well this season, and when the three teams face each other it will really determine who will still be at the top of the standings.
Kai Harvetz was able to score a goal in the 89th minute giving Arsenal the lead until the end of the match and Arsenal was lucky enough to avoid a draw and bringing on Havertz to replace Martinelli was the right decision even though Harvetz has actually been quite disappointing in his performance at Arsenal so far.

The competition between Arsenal, Manchester city, and Liverpool looks tough tho, I can't really tell if Arsenal can maintain the top, last season Arsenal did well by topping the table but all of a sudden Arsenal could not maintain that position and Manchester city lead, That might likely happen now. Probably now when the competition is tough Liverpool might top the table. Arsenal fans should not get over excited just yet cause anything can happen, but at the other hand Arsenal have every chance to win their next match on Saturday but they need to improve in the numbers of goals.

Yes they really need to increase in goal scoring because the way things are going now the number of goals matters. Last season Arsenal top the table before January transfer window and again this season that is going to happen again if really they improve in their performance, but this time around I really believed in them, last season they disappointed me with the way they were playing, it was so annoying but still Manchester City was so strong to the extent that I didn't want to blame Arsenal anymore because I myself was afraid of Manchester City because of Haaland, he is a super goal scorer that scored in every match they played.

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Quote from: Coyster on November 28, 2023, 11:48:48 AM

Quote from: RaltcoinsB on November 28, 2023, 11:34:36 AM

Arsenal are bad at continuity. Manchester, on the other hand, is more experienced in terms of consistency.

This current group of City players are so used to winning the EPL, something that this current Arsenal team are lacking, this is why City are favorites to win the league and why they become unstoppable when we get to the later stages of the season. Arsenal are getting closer anyway, they might not win the league this season, but in a few years time they prolly would, they learnt their lessons last season and if they fail again this season, they'll learn more things along the way as well, the Arsenal hierarchy basically have to keep Arteta at the club and support him, sooner or later they'd be EPL champions again.

You are right but lets not underrate, Manchester city as a club may still make some mistakes which may end up costing the trophy this season even with their best and well experienced players.

By the way, since the Manchester city players are so used to winning, how come they allowed their game wit Chelsea to end in a draw? This should tell us that, any team can rise up from anywhere to win the title, it doesnt matter who's more experienced and who's not, it's all about effort and luck as well.

Not like it's been stamped somewhere that Manchester city will be the only team who would keep winning the title all seasons, this makes epl very boring to honest.

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Quote from: Coyster on November 28, 2023, 11:48:48 AM

This current group of City players are so used to winning the EPL, something that this current Arsenal team are lacking, this is why City are favorites to win the league and why they become unstoppable when we get to the later stages of the season. Arsenal are getting closer anyway, they might not win the league this season, but in a few years time they prolly would, they learnt their lessons last season and if they fail again this season, they'll learn more things along the way as well, the Arsenal hierarchy basically have to keep Arteta at the club and support him, sooner or later they'd be EPL champions again.

Becoming a competent champ, there are work that need to be put in place, that's specifically what every other struggling clubs is lacking. It took Pep Guardiola years before he finally build Manchester City to become one of the competiting clubs in English Premier League and other major tournaments in this present day of football. Pep Guardiola have work to do as he's keen on improving his pattern of game every season, no room for relenting efforts, he will keep pushing for good results every season. For Arsenal to take the lead and dominated games like Manchester City, it will take them more years to build up and maintain consistency which is one of the fastest.

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Quote from: RaltcoinsB on November 28, 2023, 11:34:36 AM

It is true that they handed over the leadership to Arsenal because of the 4 points Manchester City lost against 2 difficult teams, but there is only 1 point between them and Manchester City is good enough to complete this period as champion. Arsenal are bad at continuity. Manchester, on the other hand, is more experienced in terms of consistency.

Everyone is expecting Arsenal to drop from the first position soon since they are just ahead of Manchester City with just a point difference. We all saw what happened to Arsenal last season, they were ahead of Manchester City, which was in the second position with a reasonable amount of points, which everyone was thinking Manchester City wouldn’t be able to cover up, but we all saw how Arsenal wasted the great opportunity that they had last season. Everyone has been saying Arteta has learned from his mistake, but I just hope he has really done so. But I don’t still believe Arsenal can stay in the first position for a long time, we shouldn’t be talking about winning the league yet.

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Quote from: RaltcoinsB on November 28, 2023, 11:34:36 AM

Arsenal are bad at continuity. Manchester, on the other hand, is more experienced in terms of consistency.

This current group of City players are so used to winning the EPL, something that this current Arsenal team are lacking, this is why City are favorites to win the league and why they become unstoppable when we get to the later stages of the season. Arsenal are getting closer anyway, they might not win the league this season, but in a few years time they prolly would, they learnt their lessons last season and if they fail again this season, they'll learn more things along the way as well, the Arsenal hierarchy basically have to keep Arteta at the club and support him, sooner or later they'd be EPL champions again.

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Arsenal did try their luck and managed to become top of the standings, but I agree that they won't be first until the end of the season... Last season they had a 100% opportunity to win but god only knows why they couldn't do it... This season it seems to me that history will quickly repeat itself...

It is true that they handed over the leadership to Arsenal because of the 4 points Manchester City lost against 2 difficult teams, but there is only 1 point between them and Manchester City is good enough to complete this period as champion. Arsenal are bad at continuity. Manchester, on the other hand, is more experienced in terms of consistency.

Don't forget that 1 point Can make a team to lift trophy in a season and, it will surprise you that Arsenal will maintain this first position till the end of the tournament to win premier league trophy to make some of their players popular because, Manchester city, Liverpool and Tottenham Hotspur will continue to reduce points for Arsenal to have a long gap to be ahead of other teams through out. If you know what is happening to Manchester city in this season, you will know that Manchester city will not end up in second position because Liverpool are coming up to occupy that position for Manchester city to stay in 4th position.

Manchester city did well from the beginning of this season, but since their players started having some injuries in some games made their performance to reduced and it will take them long games to recover from it.

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Quote from: 3meek on November 28, 2023, 08:38:22 AM

Arsenal did try their luck and managed to become top of the standings, but I agree that they won't be first until the end of the season... Last season they had a 100% opportunity to win but god only knows why they couldn't do it... This season it seems to me that history will quickly repeat itself...

It is true that they handed over the leadership to Arsenal because of the 4 points Manchester City lost against 2 difficult teams, but there is only 1 point between them and Manchester City is good enough to complete this period as champion. Arsenal are bad at continuity. Manchester, on the other hand, is more experienced in terms of consistency.

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Quote from: RockBell on November 28, 2023, 08:19:01 AM

Quote from: topbitcoin on November 28, 2023, 05:21:34 AM

The end of the season is still a long way off as we're now facing the middle of the season and it could also be difficult for them.
This season will not be the same as last season because at the moment the competitiveness is still felt. not only about Manchester City but currently Liverpool is also making a difference by making the competition in the EPL very interesting.

Araenal mang is still a lot of gaps but I think reshuffling again and again will actually create problems for themselves. Currently Arsenal is always known as one of the wasteful clubs and if in the end they have to do another overhaul I think it will not be too good for their money situation and cash movements and it will be more worth it to maximize the current strength with some emphasis especially for mentality so that the performance of their young players can be better than today.

This season won't be exactly like last, but it will still be very long, and football is very logical, so clubs like Manchester City always have ways of gaining an advantage over other teams. We will now start listing the clubs that will perform well and finish in the top five. Of course, not all of the clubs that are performing well will start acting strangely very soon, which is to be expected. Liverpool has improved this season and they are also a good competitor for Manchester City the EPL is getting more interesting with more surprises, and I really want Arsenal to win the premier league this season since they lost the opportunity they had last season and this is another season to make amendment for their disappointment last season. and this season saka is not in form if not arsenal would have been something else this season.

They have a situation where they are always favored over EPL clubs, it is indeed very natural because there are several situations even though in terms of players there are actually those who can rival them in the EPL but in the end there is something else that becomes a benchmark such as the strength and chemistry of the coaches or indeed cohesiveness in dominance on the field so it is quite natural that they are still favorites until now.
In addition, indeed football, especially in the EPL is something that is sometimes unpredictable and now maybe we know some of the problems that occur for big clubs and in recent weeks we have also seen Tottenham who are slowly losing their entity which makes the situation worse for the top standings but this is the best thing for us as football lovers, especially the EPL.

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Quote from: Mr.right85 on November 28, 2023, 08:41:56 AM

Arsenal sitting at the top of the league at this time of the season doesn’t really mean a thing. Everybody thinks Manchester city are still going to win the EPL title. Honestly it looks like Manchester City are still the favourites to emerge as champions again after their 1-1 draw against Liverpool, but with the current performances of other top four teams, like Liverpool and Arsenal, it seems like Manchester city might not win it this year. Arsenal have beaten Manchester City this season, Chelsea held them to a 4-4 draw some weeks ago and now Liverpool played out a draw against them.

Arsenal's ability to got top of the English Premier League I think shows how much ready the Mikel Arteta team really wants to fight for the league title. The opinion that they ain't a strong team to challenge for the title I don't think is valid considering how consistent they've been since the start of the league season. Manchester City without doubt is the strongest team in the league and that's because of the quality of players in their set up but that doesn't mean that Arsenal aren't formidable enough to challenge them for the English top flight title.

Quote from: Mr.right85 on November 28, 2023, 08:41:56 AM

I think another failure to defeat a fellow big hitter will give them all the confidence that Manchester City could drop enough points for another team to take advantage. I somehow rate Liverpool more than Arsenal to challenge Manchester city better. Liverpool are arguably the team most likely to beat Manchester City to the title. After all, they have done what has become almost impossible by getting something from the Etihad. If Manchester city continue this pattern of failing to beat their closest rivals, they might lose out on the title this season.

Considering the kind of rivalry that Liverpool has posed to Manchester City for the past 6 years, it's obvious that they're the strongest among other English Premier League teams to fight the champions for the title this season but just like I said in my response to your the first paragraph, I think Arsenal will as well be a team to beat for the title this season.

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Quote from: Oluwa-btc on November 28, 2023, 10:35:57 AM

Quote from: 3meek on November 28, 2023, 08:38:22 AM

Arsenal did try their luck and managed to become top of the standings, but I agree that they won't be first until the end of the season... Last season they had a 100% opportunity to win but god only knows why they couldn't do it... This season it seems to me that history will quickly repeat itself...

Last season, their sole aim was to qualify for the Champions League Football and that they achieved. Anyways, they should have done better by trying to win the league. The draw against Southampton was painful that should have given em a clearer pathway. They snoozed, they failed and I believe lessons from the experience has been learnt.

Manchester City didn't replace some of them players well though, it has affected their general performance. I also do not see Manchester City as winners of the Premier League Competition.
There should be more additional players that fits into the plans of Mikel Arteta long term plans for the club. Arsenal was my favorite to win last season, I'm still rooting for another club to win. Pep Guardiola gradually turning the league into farmers league LoL.

The only reasons why Arsenal failed last season were the lack of rotation options, unbalanced squad depth, and Arteta tactics which seemed easy to guess. Of course experience is the best teacher and Arteta has learned from the bitterness of last season, his efforts to improve the club by recruiting like players Declan Rice and Kai Havertz, and changing several approaches in his strategy made his squad successful in defeating Man City, for me this success shows that they are very ready for any challenge this season.

I don't doubt Pep Guardiola in managing his club, I think even though some of their new recruits are not optimal, City is still on the favorite path as a champion candidate. City defeat to Wolves and Arsenal does not necessarily put them off the list of favorites, I mean last season we saw them still win the EPL trophy with 5 defeats and 5 draws.

Apart from that, I think many things will happen in the next 24 matches, it could be Liverpool becoming champions at the end of the season, or it could also be Arsenal, and it doesn't even rule out the possibility that City can defend it again. The competition for the top four continues with a narrow points gap, a slight gap will result in their position being displaced on the standings.

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Quote from: Winterfrost on November 28, 2023, 09:01:50 AM

Quote from: 3meek on November 28, 2023, 08:38:22 AM

Arsenal did try their luck and managed to become top of the standings, but I agree that they won't be first until the end of the season... Last season they had a 100% opportunity to win but god only knows why they couldn't do it... This season it seems to me that history will quickly repeat itself...

It's not certain that they will be at the top of the league till it's over. But am certain that the team are far likey to win the league this season than last year's. Arsenal are not playing much of an impressive football compared to last year. Laat year we see the team always putting efforts in attacking more than they were defending. This caused them a lot in which they were concerdding more goals that made them bottled the league to Manchester city last season.

It's caused by its competitors were also doing significant improvements during summer transfer season. Even though city has got crisis due to the injury but it can still perform as good as last season. You can imagine when de bruyne will be comeback again to the play. It will be a disaster for arsenal and other teams. Arsenal is having good squad but not with the mentality owned by those players. This club was always failed in winning premier league. The main target for arteta to develop the mentality of players.
You do have a good squad but since this squad never had winning mentality and this would be useless.

Quote from: Winterfrost on November 28, 2023, 09:01:50 AM

This season we are seeing a different game from Arsenal. They prioritize how they defend and gradually push the ball to the 18 yard of their opponent for a goal. They don't force the attack pretty much and they do not find much goals even if it is a goal they need they just ensure to take that three points.

Arteta seems to try to change the tempo of the club. I remember that how arsenal was very aggressive last season but since arteta knew that its opponents made many improvements and arsenal shall be playing carefully.
It appears that Arteta has taken lessons from the previous season where Arsenal suffered losses due to the club's impatience during gameplay.

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Quote from: 3meek on November 28, 2023, 08:38:22 AM

Arsenal did try their luck and managed to become top of the standings, but I agree that they won't be first until the end of the season... Last season they had a 100% opportunity to win but god only knows why they couldn't do it... This season it seems to me that history will quickly repeat itself...

This has been my speculations aswell, they have been able to make it to the top currently but they their ability to maintain that position and continually remaining at the top which in the long run should get them to winning the league title in what I currently doubt.

Arsenal has played well this season and aswell put up good performance in almost every of their games except for some of their matches where they were somehow dull but both in the premier and champions league they have done well so far but what matters at this point is the possibility in their ability to win either of these title or they will repeat what they did last season. With the premier league they have got a better chance but with the champions league I'm not sure how well they can go.

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Quote from: 3meek on November 28, 2023, 08:38:22 AM

Arsenal did try their luck and managed to become top of the standings, but I agree that they won't be first until the end of the season... Last season they had a 100% opportunity to win but god only knows why they couldn't do it... This season it seems to me that history will quickly repeat itself...

Last season, their sole aim was to qualify for the Champions League Football and that they achieved. Anyways, they should have done better by trying to win the league. The draw against Southampton was painful that should have given em a clearer pathway. They snoozed, they failed and I believe lessons from the experience has been learnt.

Manchester City didn't replace some of them players well though, it has affected their general performance. I also do not see Manchester City as winners of the Premier League Competition.
There should be more additional players that fits into the plans of Mikel Arteta long term plans for the club. Arsenal was my favorite to win last season, I'm still rooting for another club to win. Pep Guardiola gradually turning the league into farmers league LoL.

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Quote from: 3meek on November 28, 2023, 08:38:22 AM

Arsenal did try their luck and managed to become top of the standings, but I agree that they won't be first until the end of the season... Last season they had a 100% opportunity to win but god only knows why they couldn't do it... This season it seems to me that history will quickly repeat itself...

Arsenal will keep shocking everyone who's doubting them from winning the trophy this season, I just hope they are able to maintain consistency in league games for now. Mikel Arteta is here again this season, he's definitely going to try his best to maintain the high standards he have set already in the club. Here we go again, Arsenal topping the English Premier League table this season, the exact same way they were topping last season. Manchester City are suddenly behind them and if Gunners makes any slight mistakes, they will find themselves climbing down with enough struggles to deal with.

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Quote from: 3meek on November 28, 2023, 08:38:22 AM

Arsenal did try their luck and managed to become top of the standings, but I agree that they won't be first until the end of the season... Last season they had a 100% opportunity to win but god only knows why they couldn't do it... This season it seems to me that history will quickly repeat itself...

Some mistakes in the end and bad consistency is what it takes to lose the pole position in title race. Watching Arsenal matches , I still feel that they are lacking confidence like the way they used to have in the beginning of last season. Right now they are just clear with City with 1 points and I think if they maintain the consistency they can put lot of pressure on others behind especially City. All they have to do is not lose points and they will find enough gap near the end of the season but its very hard. Let's see how Arsenal take advantage of this pole position and till when.

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Quote from: ndutndut on November 28, 2023, 10:10:16 AM

Quote from: 3meek on November 28, 2023, 08:38:22 AM

Arsenal did try their luck and managed to become top of the standings, but I agree that they won't be first until the end of the season... Last season they had a 100% opportunity to win but god only knows why they couldn't do it... This season it seems to me that history will quickly repeat itself...

I would also think like you. Currently, Arsenal is in first place, I hope they don't become complacent. Because they have to learn from last season's experience so that it doesn't happen again like last season.

Because Arsenal is only one point behind and the game is not even half way through the season, there is still a long way to go and I have not yet seen whether Arsenal will be able to be stable in every game. For example, last season Arsenal initially had a gap of eight points from Man City and had entered the middle of the season. So this season Arsenal must be careful so that in 2-3 matches Arsenal can be crossed by Man Blue or The Reds again.

It seems like just luck for Arsenal because anyway, if for example the match between Manchester City v Liverpool did not end in a draw, of course Arsenal would not be at the top of the Premier League standings at this time. Not only that, I sure Arsenal have no guarantee to be able to stay at the top of the Premier League standings because after all, Arsenal and Aston Villa who are in fourth position are also only two points different. So yes, there are still Msnchester City and Liverpool there and will certainly continue to put pressure to Arsenal. So yes, I believe Arsenal will not last long at the top of the Premier League table, because soon Manchester City or Liverpool might take over the top position of the Premier League table.

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Quote from: ndutndut on November 28, 2023, 10:10:16 AM

Quote from: 3meek on November 28, 2023, 08:38:22 AM

Arsenal did try their luck and managed to become top of the standings, but I agree that they won't be first until the end of the season... Last season they had a 100% opportunity to win but god only knows why they couldn't do it... This season it seems to me that history will quickly repeat itself...

I would also think like you. Currently, Arsenal is in first place, I hope they don't become complacent. Because they have to learn from last season's experience so that it doesn't happen again like last season.

Because Arsenal is only one point behind and the game is not even half way through the season, there is still a long way to go and I have not yet seen whether Arsenal will be able to be stable in every game. For example, last season Arsenal initially had a gap of eight points from Man City and had entered the middle of the season. So this season Arsenal must be careful so that in 2-3 matches Arsenal can be crossed by Man Blue or The Reds again.

Just recently Spurs were the leaders and many were saying that they were finally starting to play more consistently... But then the situation changed quickly... I think it's going to be the same with Arsenal... They need a stable game...

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Quote from: Mr.right85 on November 28, 2023, 08:41:56 AM

Arsenal sitting at the top of the league at this time of the season doesn’t really mean a thing. Everybody thinks Manchester city are still going to win the EPL title. Honestly it looks like Manchester City are still the favourites to emerge as champions again after their 1-1 draw against Liverpool, but with the current performances of other top four teams, like Liverpool and Arsenal, it seems like Manchester city might not win it this year. Arsenal have beaten Manchester City this season, Chelsea held them to a 4-4 draw some weeks ago and now Liverpool played out a draw against them.

I think another failure to defeat a fellow big hitter will give them all the confidence that Manchester City could drop enough points for another team to take advantage. I somehow rate Liverpool more than Arsenal to challenge Manchester city better. Liverpool are arguably the team most likely to beat Manchester City to the title. After all, they have done what has become almost impossible by getting something from the Etihad. If Manchester city continue this pattern of failing to beat their closest rivals, they might lose out on the title this season.

Manchester City still has the opportunity to overtake Arsenal at the top of the standings, the competition in the top four of the standings will continue with a small difference in points. I think City still has a big chance of retaining the EPL trophy, even though they are under heavy pressure from Arsenal and Liverpool. As we know, Tottenham, Man United and Chelsea as elite clubs seem unable to compete in the top four, this gives City the freedom to lead the standings in the future.

There are still quite a lot of matches remaining, and there is still one more round to face off against other elite EPL clubs for Guardiola squad. Currently, Pep is still able to bring his team consistently, even though on the other hand he has lost important players. It is true, the opportunity for Liverpool and Arsenal to win trophies this season is quite open, but it is still too early to say that Manchester City will fail this season.

Topic: Premier League Prediction Thread 2021/2022 - page 2356. (Read 789559 times)