price at all time high while utility at all time low

Carlsen

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Quote from: Dudeperfect on February 27, 2017, 10:48:02 PM

Quote from: philiveyjr on February 27, 2017, 12:45:38 PM

Quote from: Dudeperfect on February 26, 2017, 12:43:40 AM

Quote from: bitbob82 on February 25, 2017, 01:17:36 PM

Quote from: Dudeperfect on February 25, 2017, 12:19:27 PM

I think the price would rise by further 20% to 30% if they take efforts for reducing high fees and the confirmation time. No one likes to wait to get their transaction confirmed but at the same time paying high fees is not a good option to go with (especially when we have lot more strangers to reach). I would say if we are finding any concrete solution on this issue then it will have long-term positive impact on the bitcoin.

yes that proble is needed to be solve without increasing the fee. people want the transaction to be conform and specially those people who are using bitcoin in their local shops because they cannot wait for a long time in the shops for the conformation.

Exactly, I would never imagine myself waiting in a bitcoin ATM for 24 hours to wait for the transaction to get confirmed and the machine dispenses the cash. I am still worried about using bitcoins for local shops (there are not a single merchant in my town but still), it would create huge mess IMO.

What makes you think that the ATM would take such a long time for conformation? The ATM's will most likely be instant and you will get cash instantly but there would be some sort of clause for such ATM's meaning that either that you should have double the amount of BTC with loads of conformations already. Etc.

I mean when a person is trying to deposit the funds from his wallet to the ATM 9to withdraw fiat amount) in such case if he is including average fees as usual even in a case of confirmation backlog (being completely unaware of it) might take more time for ATM software to identify the payment as it will look for confirmation from the at least one block so it would hold fiat withdrawal request until transaction gets confirmed.

I have never used an ATM, but I can imagine that the guy who invented ist must have forseen such a situation.
Besides, one block is found every ten minutes in average.
I can not even imagine myself to wait ten minutes in front of an ATM to get my coins.
I am confident the developer has integrated a way to transfer the coins without having to wait in front of the ATM in a reasonable time.

Dudeperfect

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Quote from: philiveyjr on February 27, 2017, 12:45:38 PM

Quote from: Dudeperfect on February 26, 2017, 12:43:40 AM

Quote from: bitbob82 on February 25, 2017, 01:17:36 PM

Quote from: Dudeperfect on February 25, 2017, 12:19:27 PM

I think the price would rise by further 20% to 30% if they take efforts for reducing high fees and the confirmation time. No one likes to wait to get their transaction confirmed but at the same time paying high fees is not a good option to go with (especially when we have lot more strangers to reach). I would say if we are finding any concrete solution on this issue then it will have long-term positive impact on the bitcoin.

yes that proble is needed to be solve without increasing the fee. people want the transaction to be conform and specially those people who are using bitcoin in their local shops because they cannot wait for a long time in the shops for the conformation.

Exactly, I would never imagine myself waiting in a bitcoin ATM for 24 hours to wait for the transaction to get confirmed and the machine dispenses the cash. I am still worried about using bitcoins for local shops (there are not a single merchant in my town but still), it would create huge mess IMO.

What makes you think that the ATM would take such a long time for conformation? The ATM's will most likely be instant and you will get cash instantly but there would be some sort of clause for such ATM's meaning that either that you should have double the amount of BTC with loads of conformations already. Etc.

I mean when a person is trying to deposit the funds from his wallet to the ATM 9to withdraw fiat amount) in such case if he is including average fees as usual even in a case of confirmation backlog (being completely unaware of it) might take more time for ATM software to identify the payment as it will look for confirmation from the at least one block so it would hold fiat withdrawal request until transaction gets confirmed.

Chin Cheng

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Quote from: Wipro on February 27, 2017, 01:06:29 PM

Uses are so high in bitcoin but still usage apart from online stores, bitcoins are not widely used all the people in the world. We need to big adoption and any country should make bitcoin as a legal currency to make it popular and to the laymen people.

Why do we need a country to accept bitcoin as a legal tender.Bitcoin does have its fair share of investors and people are starting to get involved in cryto currency and with time and other strict regulations from different countries more people would find this as a place of investment.

Wipro

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Quote from: RodeoX on February 27, 2017, 09:25:33 AM

Utility is high actually. Bitcoin is the greatest payment system ever developed, however it is not being used as such. For everyone that spends bitcoin at a store many, many, outers just switch back and forth between BTC and local fiat. If we are speculating with bitcoin rather than using it as a currency then the project will develop accordingly. I would guess that at our current trajectory the cost of trading will soar to match trading in any currency. If you want something different then it's going to be your job to make it happen. Start spending your coin instead of selling it, start asking retailers to accept BTC.

Uses are so high in bitcoin but still usage apart from online stores, bitcoins are not widely used all the people in the world. We need to big adoption and any country should make bitcoin as a legal currency to make it popular and to the laymen people.

philiveyjr

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Quote from: Dudeperfect on February 26, 2017, 12:43:40 AM

Quote from: bitbob82 on February 25, 2017, 01:17:36 PM

Quote from: Dudeperfect on February 25, 2017, 12:19:27 PM

I think the price would rise by further 20% to 30% if they take efforts for reducing high fees and the confirmation time. No one likes to wait to get their transaction confirmed but at the same time paying high fees is not a good option to go with (especially when we have lot more strangers to reach). I would say if we are finding any concrete solution on this issue then it will have long-term positive impact on the bitcoin.

yes that proble is needed to be solve without increasing the fee. people want the transaction to be conform and specially those people who are using bitcoin in their local shops because they cannot wait for a long time in the shops for the conformation.

Exactly, I would never imagine myself waiting in a bitcoin ATM for 24 hours to wait for the transaction to get confirmed and the machine dispenses the cash. I am still worried about using bitcoins for local shops (there are not a single merchant in my town but still), it would create huge mess IMO.

What makes you think that the ATM would take such a long time for conformation? The ATM's will most likely be instant and you will get cash instantly but there would be some sort of clause for such ATM's meaning that either that you should have double the amount of BTC with loads of conformations already. Etc.

webtricks

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Quote from: jonald_fyookball on February 24, 2017, 04:24:03 PM

while investors grin about the high price, bitcoin users suffer high fees and long
wait times...

Wait wait!! Explain me how to pay a maximum of $1 for $100 international transaction can be considered as a matter of high priority?
We all are rapenting on this because we never expected that rise. But when we see cap is increasing, value of increasing then putting additional cents in transactions is not big matter to me at least!!

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: rizzlarolla on February 27, 2017, 11:19:56 AM

Quote from: Carlton Banks on February 27, 2017, 04:49:16 AM

If the BTC price spiked by 10 or 20 times (which is not inconceivable), and the tx rate remained at ~300,000/day, the fiat value of an average fee would increase by the same basic factor. To reduce it again, the only instant fix is to increase the blocksize by that same factor.

No. Price is not directly linked to blocksize like that.
Using your equation, which only supposes btc/$ price spikes, you would not need "10 or 20 times" the blockspace to accommodate the present users.

That's not what I said though. You have to refute things I've actually said, not what you would prefer me to have said

rizzlarolla

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on February 27, 2017, 04:49:16 AM

If the BTC price spiked by 10 or 20 times (which is not inconceivable), and the tx rate remained at ~300,000/day, the fiat value of an average fee would increase by the same basic factor. To reduce it again, the only instant fix is to increase the blocksize by that same factor.

No. Price is not directly linked to blocksize like that.
Using your equation, which only supposes btc/$ price spikes, you would not need "10 or 20 times" the blockspace to accommodate the present users.

You would only need the "same factor blocksize increase" if consistent fee paying tx's increased by the "same factor". (adoption?)
So, in your equation the real answer is that you do not need a blocksize increase to counter Bitcoin price swings. The "dynamic" Core fee market "should" realign it's self with (existing) tx demand v "fair" market value of such. If you don't want fees to go up with new adoption then the blocksize must be increased. Core want fees to rise significantly long term, therefore keeping blockspace restricted.

Quote

That could easily end up in a feedback loop where the price goes up x10, then the blocksize goes up x10.

No. Without further adoption being included, that is the wrong conclusion.

Quote

Even the bigblockers know that's not a sensible...

Correct, not sensible or accurate..

Gameroid

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Quote from: xuan87 on February 26, 2017, 06:23:13 PM

It is really sad, but it is true, more and more people are complaining the increasing transaction fee and the long confirmation time has been a classic problem which no solution until now, the developer need to do something about this before bitcoin user moved to another coin or stop using it, if this problems can be solved we will see more shop adopting bitcoin

Yes transaction fee must be in a rang and should not increase as constant. I think therefore shold be a proper arrangement for increasing the transaction free and all the exchanges must follow the rues for accepting bitcoins.

RodeoX

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The revolution will be monetized!

Utility is high actually. Bitcoin is the greatest payment system ever developed, however it is not being used as such. For everyone that spends bitcoin at a store many, many, outers just switch back and forth between BTC and local fiat. If we are speculating with bitcoin rather than using it as a currency then the project will develop accordingly. I would guess that at our current trajectory the cost of trading will soar to match trading in any currency. If you want something different then it's going to be your job to make it happen. Start spending your coin instead of selling it, start asking retailers to accept BTC.

requester

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Yes its the highest price in history and i guess within 6 more months it will rise even higher. but now we are facing transaction problems. It is taking lot of time and more transaction fees is taken but system is not running smoothly.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: smoothie on February 27, 2017, 03:39:27 AM

If fees continue to go up that would probably mean and imply that bitcoin will be used for high value transfers.

If the BTC price spiked by 10 or 20 times (which is not inconceivable), and the tx rate remained at ~300,000/day, the fiat value of an average fee would increase by the same basic factor. To reduce it again, the only instant fix is to increase the blocksize by that same factor.

That could easily end up in a feedback loop where the price goes up x10, then the blocksize goes up x10. Meanwhile, nodes and their bandwidth could struggle with increases like that happening too fast. Even the bigblockers know that's not a sensible risk in the short term. A scenario like that and the excess of speed at which it could happen is not at all unlikely.

Quote from: smoothie on February 27, 2017, 03:39:27 AM

Which opens up the market to another crypto taking on the smaller transactions that bitcoin may not be able to handle.

Or another payment layer for Bitcoin, of which there are now many types & implementations. It's obvious that at least one will be very successful.

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on February 25, 2017, 09:29:58 AM

Quote from: tvbcof on February 24, 2017, 10:55:34 PM

Last time I participated in these discussions was I think several years ago. Right around the time that Hearn and Andressen were spouting dire warnings about how Bitcoin only had a month or two to live unless the blocksize was raised ASAP. Now, years later, Bitcoin is going strong, setting new highs, and an actual well designed and well thought out solutions are available when needed.

Back then the fear-mongering actually convinced a surprising number of users. Now not so much...just a few residual dead-enders like the OP. In fact almost nobody seems to be buying the bullshit. The consequence of the crying wolf by 'trusted figures' no doubt, but also more people who are on this board seem to have a better grasp of the technology, the threats, and the trade-offs. That's pretty encouraging to me.

I think the fact that many users are reporting their transactions cannot be confirmed in a reasonable amount of time (I'm currently waiting over 12 hours)
and there's 43,000 unconfirmed transactions is exactly what Gavin was talking about.

Yes, more people have a better grasp of the technology, threats, and trade offs... More people are waking up to the fact that
we can simply increasing the blocksize and avoid this mess.

Simple solution: Increase your fee from XX cents to YY cents.

Problem solved.

If fees continue to go up that would probably mean and imply that bitcoin will be used for high value transfers.

Which opens up the market to another crypto taking on the smaller transactions that bitcoin may not be able to handle.

Doms

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The price climbing at a very high rate has people considering bitcoin more of an investment than an everyday currency, add to that the glitches that these slow to confirm transactions that a few have been experiencing over the past weeks which makes it less attractive as a tool for transaction payments. Something could be done to make way for bitcoin to be both a powerful currency and a stable investment, but there will arise some challenges and a few sacrifices along the way.

Roboabhishek

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Quote from: xuan87 on February 26, 2017, 06:23:13 PM

It is really sad, but it is true, more and more people are complaining the increasing transaction fee and the long confirmation time has been a classic problem which no solution until now, the developer need to do something about this before bitcoin user moved to another coin or stop using it, if this problems can be solved we will see more shop adopting bitcoin

If we look at it other way then we can say that Customer has to pay the fee of both his and from whom he is buying.
I am saying this because it happened with me when i buyed a game on G2A

squatz1

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It's kind of sad to see such an issue arise where the majority of bitcoins volume is not from people that want to adopt it, it's from people that want to buy/sell on the daily and make money from it. This could have never been predicted in the least.

Quote from: BitcoinBarrel on February 24, 2017, 10:58:36 PM

If confirmation times and fees made any difference, then people would choose one of the many alt coins available.

Block Space should be Expensive. And Fees should go to Miners.

I love when people attempt to show differences between confirmation times and fees on some bullshit altcoin which is only be using a small amount and comparing it to bitcoin which has a disgusting amount of usage on its network. These altcoins have no problem due to them not having the same type of usage of bitcoin and that's all.

If you put the same sort of stress on the altcoins they'd be facing the same EXACT issues.

xuan87

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It is really sad, but it is true, more and more people are complaining the increasing transaction fee and the long confirmation time has been a classic problem which no solution until now, the developer need to do something about this before bitcoin user moved to another coin or stop using it, if this problems can be solved we will see more shop adopting bitcoin

cryp24x

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Quote from: Dudeperfect on February 26, 2017, 12:43:40 AM

Quote from: bitbob82 on February 25, 2017, 01:17:36 PM

Quote from: Dudeperfect on February 25, 2017, 12:19:27 PM

I think the price would rise by further 20% to 30% if they take efforts for reducing high fees and the confirmation time. No one likes to wait to get their transaction confirmed but at the same time paying high fees is not a good option to go with (especially when we have lot more strangers to reach). I would say if we are finding any concrete solution on this issue then it will have long-term positive impact on the bitcoin.

yes that proble is needed to be solve without increasing the fee. people want the transaction to be conform and specially those people who are using bitcoin in their local shops because they cannot wait for a long time in the shops for the conformation.

Exactly, I would never imagine myself waiting in a bitcoin ATM for 24 hours to wait for the transaction to get confirmed and the machine dispenses the cash. I am still worried about using bitcoins for local shops (there are not a single merchant in my town but still), it would create huge mess IMO.

I wonder if this scenario is real. Honestly i have not use a Bitcoin ATM machine, so i do not have an idea if this kind of scenario is possible. If it is, I think i would go nuts waiting in an ATM that will dispense my withdrawal after 24 hours LOL. Who wouldn't?

jonald_fyookball

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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: alani123 on February 26, 2017, 05:45:21 PM

Bitcoin (on its own) can't be a currency helping the poor and unbanked and a highly traded commodity at the same time.

Why do you feel that these 2 things are mutually exclusive?

alani123

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This is something joked about by anti-bitcoin shills but also a harsh reality. Bitcoin (on its own) can't be a currency helping the poor and unbanked and a highly traded commodity at the same time. The notion that mass adoption by developing countries would usher bitcoin to a higher price is a fallacy IMO.

Topic: price at all time high while utility at all time low (Read 3720 times)