Topic: Price of gold manipulation - page 3. (Read 17926 times)

I'm from a Eurozone country too, and hope the Euro will be abandoned ASAP. It gives the countries in debt no possibility of getting out and the richer countries have to pay into a barrel without bottom. The Euro is ruining us, but very few people see it so far.

5000 years is enough evidence for me, without the slightest doubt. Sometimes you gotta stop theorising and just look at the facts of what was/is happening. No irrationality about that. Everybody has to put the puzzle together for themselves.

Your conclusion doesn't clearly come out in your post, but in case you are advising against gold, I'm wondering how you could ever hold BTC...


In other words: It's so shiny shiny bling bling!

On another note: How are things in Greece? What do you think would help Greece now, eg getting out of the Euro?

Yes, but why was/is it valued. That's the question. A tradition starts somewhere and it only endures as far as people don't re-evaluate their priorities. I mean sacrificing lambs was a tradition but then people were like "ok wtf are we doing?"... then people held all kind of erroneous ideas and came the enlightenment... why wasn't the "value" of gold reevaluated as most other things? Even in the early 19th century when platinum was discovered, which had better qualities than gold, why wasn't it crowned as better?

The tradition of love to this "barbarous relic" implies that we still carry barbaric mentality. That defies our intellectual and scientific progression. It defies our economic needs in terms of demand/supply, as the majority of gold is not going for industrial purposes. What is also defied are the discoveries surrounding the new metals of the PGE group which have better qualities. I mean even the ancients understood that iron was better than copper at some stage and used iron instead (the ancient definition of precious metal changed depending their needs). So? Why didn't gold crash when Platinum, for example, came along?

And how does it happen that every single culture values gold? Why is it so universal?



You see the fundamentals regarding the value of gold are largely unknown yet that is quite irrational. How can you "not know" where its value originates but be certain that it will always be valuable? Faith, in lack of substantial evidence of value, is irrational. The only thing that keeps us going is that "other people have valued it too" as a form of self-validation of our own thought process which is, in itself, irrational due to the lack of proper facts. At the moment one realizes this mass paranoia they should stop and say "wait a minute, wtf are we doing here? this is wrong". But nobody does that. Some of the financial elite hint about the useless barbarous metal that offers nothing (and their logic seems sound but nobody hears them anyway because they are full of BS in so many other areas)...

People can't articulate the fundamentals of gold because they don't know them. Contrary to what the elite bullshiters who want people to stay off the gold (so that they can hoard it for themselves) say, these fundamentals DO exist and they are extremely solid - more solid than most can imagine.

They were put in place before a single culture was established on this planet - ie it wasn't the cultures and the people which valued gold but that gold attracted the people's appreciation as a consequence.

When you go to pan some dirt and see a spec of gold in the pan, you rationally know that this is worthless in terms of $$$ (the spec that is) but your heart's BPM rise instantly, along with your excitement which jumps. It wasn't because your parents instructed you to react that way. It wasn't because your culture instructed you to react that way - the reaction was all yours and, if you analyze it, you'll see that its highly enigmatic. There's like a gravity pull / magnetic pull towards gold that seems to be "hardwired" in humans, irregardless of their upbringing, which in turns creates the gold rush effect.

The knowledge of the fundamentals regarding gold is not widely circulating. You have to ask yourself again, and again and again until you reach the right answer. "WHY IS GOLD VALUABLE?". Don't settle for "I don't know" or "others seem to value it now and historically" as a self-circulating answer. If you want to really know the truth you may have to insist a bit more on it.

gold is supposedly going to go to the moon in the next 6 months if you believe the hype (because of faltering US/China economy will bring back QE with a vengeance).

The price of gold is influence by economic policy/outlook and risk on/risk off trading, US dollar strengthen like all commodities (btc too) that are valued in US dollars

Its right and logical. If you owe it to yourself you can erase it and restart at some point with not much anomaly. It is external debt (owed from a government) that creates external friction in case of default. Friction that can escalate from threats to embargoes to international diplomacy problems that are quite severe.

Exactly. If the money is given from Fed to banks to pumping derivatives and other markets then it doesn't go down to the average joe so that he can in turn pump prices.

The average joe experiences severe taxation and almost negative bank credit (the banks want more money in loan payments than they are giving out in loans) which means that instead of swimming in freshly printed paper money, he actually has none of it. Instead he has to scramble in order to sell his possessions at rock-bottom in order to repay his debts and bills.

In this way the paradox of more money and deflationary tendencies can co-exist.

Maybe it's a good combination of characteristics. Maybe the fact it's so shiny shiny bling bling does the trick, so it's largely a psychological phenomenon. I don't know.

I just know one thing: Gold has been very valuable for 5000 years, and it will be valuable in the future. Gold and silver is the last "money" on earth to lose its value. The only way gold goes is when NOTHING except the goods themselves is excepted anymore for payment (gas for bananas, cabbage for cigarettes). That's really all you need to know.



Seriously!?? OMG

That's not only flat-out wrong, but also not logical at all.

http://blog.milesfranklin.com/we-owe-it-to-ourselves-2

Gold have a historical / cultural value ... hence it's like sticker our collective mind...

Because the money is largely not in circulation yet. The velocity of money has to rise. That it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it can't happen.

I always thought that the derivatives markets made everyone so interconnected that the promotion of a 'united front' is paramount via G8, G20 etc etc. The financial sector is just as powerful as government. See the response to the GFC? It was very co-ordinated and focused on saving the financial institutions (although fair to say it was a bit of a cull in the US where 5 became 3). And it needed to be for the sake of those in power because if one country "fell", it could have went all domino.

Some argue that letting institutions fail would have meant the problem was fixed quicker (and I agree) but it more importantly would have meant that the chairs of power would have changed too.

As for the emergence of the Venezuela's, China's etc, on one hand I agree. Venezuela / Chavez was taken down by the US as they upset the control of oil. Of this there is very little doubt. And China seems smart enough to play the game: they know stability is key for them as well as the Western nations but it seems as though they are positioning themselves

It's ok, the question is addressed to all and it is not intended to somehow discredit gold but rather to reveal its true value which is more than most people can appreciate.

However, the truth cannot be revealed if the right questions aren't asked.

Mikcik is quite right about avoiding future conversations with you. You are coming at this from a very strange angle indeed, with paranoid talk about 'the elite' and worrying about the technical qualities of gold rather than its numismatic value, and with no understanding of the fundamentals of the international debt situation.

I will not be engaging in any further discussions with you Alex.

It's manageable as long as it's internal debt.


To whatever the elite instruct them to / make it lawful to. Don't forget they've outlawed gold in the past.

A further quiz which addresses something entirely fundamental for the discussion:

Why is gold valuable?

Is it the most heavy? No. (check platinum/irridium/osmium etc)
Is it the most electrically conductive? No. (Silver)
Is it the most thermally conductive? No. (Diamond / Silver)
Is it the most incorruptible? No. (Platinum is better even in aqua regia)
Is it the only colored metal? No. (Copper is too)
Is it the rarest? Not by a large margin (platinum 150 tns/yrs / gold 2500 tns per year, other metals of the PGE group range in the few tons)
Is it catalytic? No. (Platinum / Rhodium / Palladium etc are)
Is it a source of energy, like Uranium? No.

Why are the rich, the countries and ordinary people hoarding it?

Quiz: When has any nation been able to survive a debt-to-GDP ratio as large as those of the US and the UK?

Quiz 2: What will people turn to when this all goes tits-up?

Quiz: Why hasn't the increase of 1 trillion USD per year not caused hyperinflation, as prominent gold-figures promised that it would?

The Federal Reserve seems to be trapped. The Fed is creating approximately 1,000 billion new US dollars annually in order to support the prices of debt related derivatives on the books of the few banks that have been declared to be “to big to fail” and in order to finance the large federal budget deficit that is now too large to be financed by the recycling of Chinese and OPEC trade surpluses into US Treasury debt. The problem with Quantitative Easing is that the annual creation of an enormous supply of new dollars is raising questions among American and foreign holders of vast amounts of US dollar-denominated financial instruments. They see their dollar holdings being diluted by the creation of new dollars that are not the result of an increase in wealth or GDP and for which there is no demand.

That's an interesting take on the world! I have never heard anyone putting it like that.

Alex i wont argue with you, no offense, someone other might, i think we might be misunderstand each other (english is not my native language) or you are simply just a troll. There are ton of wrong things you have written in several posts...  Someone other might argue with you, i wont.

I also think that the gold bugs are over blowing the importance and future price of gold, and even though i belive gold will go higher i dont belive it will go as much higher. But im also quite sure that the thing with german gold stinks.

And about activism and the thing that people cant affect anything: Oh yes they can. Not a big thing (maybe) but a small thing yes. Germany deciding to get its gold back is nothing compared to FED or fort knox getting audited... But also, who knows how much people wanted their country (german) gold back, im not german so i dont know but there might be a serious issue there, i dont know how much discussed this topic was "in the open", in the media etc. but i belive it was big enought and the pressure was tense it enough, that some politicians HAD to react to it, or some smaller politician took their chance for gaining political points and brought this issue into light in the parlament or i dont know where, there was some petion i think so the parlament had to deal somehow with the issue and they simply agreed and pushed the bundesbank to bring the gold home, i think that only a small percentage if anybody at all knows the real deal with the german gold so their intentions might have been pure.

I dont know... it depends, i think the gold mines will have all agreements in place (already made) before they start the actual mining. Gov. might have some future gold already reserved (for example 10% of anual production will be bought by the gov. no matter what). Than the majority will go to some gold refiners for actual refining it into standard and accaptable gold bars and coins and then i dont know :-). I know only a little about gold.

Also i belive that the gold mines will be selling future contracts right away, so they might have a production for the next 5 years already sold to someone...? (some bullion bank, even central bank, some big hedge fund, etc...)