Proton launches self-custody bitcoin wallet

JollyGood

legendary

Activity: 2534

Merit: 1713

Top Crypto Casino

About them making a web version that is part of the Proton family of apps, I also thought that if they were to ever release one it would not have been a web version wallet. Maybe they will not contemplate creating a stand-alone wallet as a side product because it will be isolated from the Proton apps that are accessible after signing in to the Proton account.

Quote from: NotATether on September 05, 2024, 04:16:47 AM

Quote from: hd49728 on August 28, 2024, 10:26:04 PM

These examples of cooperating with governments and refusing to work with government with consequent arrests, jails and so on, are good reminder to all Bitcoiners about the super importance of Satoshi Nakamoto's big decision to disappear.

He (yeah let me call Satoshi Nakamoto as he, but we don't know who is or are Satoshi Nakamoto), decided in very early months of Bitcoin history and that decision is super helpful for us, and surely for himself too. Assume Satoshi Nakamoto is a well-known person, he would have been arrested a long time ago by either the USA government or others.

This is great and all but exactly what does this have to do with Proton's Bitcoin wallet software? I mean, I can't see Andy Yang or any other people inside Proton getting arrested for releasing a Bitcoin wallet (which would've happened to Satoshi probably, if not surely, after the Silk Road bust).

Actually, I would've thought they would have made this thing as a stand-alone app, not as a web version.

NotATether

legendary

Activity: 1568

Merit: 6660

bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org

Quote from: hd49728 on August 28, 2024, 10:26:04 PM

These examples of cooperating with governments and refusing to work with government with consequent arrests, jails and so on, are good reminder to all Bitcoiners about the super importance of Satoshi Nakamoto's big decision to disappear.

He (yeah let me call Satoshi Nakamoto as he, but we don't know who is or are Satoshi Nakamoto), decided in very early months of Bitcoin history and that decision is super helpful for us, and surely for himself too. Assume Satoshi Nakamoto is a well-known person, he would have been arrested a long time ago by either the USA government or others.

This is great and all but exactly what does this have to do with Proton's Bitcoin wallet software? I mean, I can't see Andy Yang or any other people inside Proton getting arrested for releasing a Bitcoin wallet (which would've happened to Satoshi probably, if not surely, after the Silk Road bust).

Actually, I would've thought they would have made this thing as a stand-alone app, not as a web version.

hd49728

legendary

Activity: 2044

Merit: 1018

Not your keys, not your coins!

Quote from: pooya87 on August 27, 2024, 09:46:33 AM

Yeah. Many of these so called "tech giants" or services that we see that appear to not be harassed by the law enforcement are already fully cooperating with the law enforcement! Like the case with bitcoin mixers. They are either honeypots that continue to exist or they refuse to cooperate and get shut down. Like the Wasabi wallet versus Samourai wallet case. Or Meta versus Telegram. One is cooperating with them, the other had its founder arrested.

These examples of cooperating with governments and refusing to work with government with consequent arrests, jails and so on, are good reminder to all Bitcoiners about the super importance of Satoshi Nakamoto's big decision to disappear.

He (yeah let me call Satoshi Nakamoto as he, but we don't know who is or are Satoshi Nakamoto), decided in very early months of Bitcoin history and that decision is super helpful for us, and surely for himself too. Assume Satoshi Nakamoto is a well-known person, he would have been arrested a long time ago by either the USA government or others.

Satoshi's lesson
After WikiLeaks, he wrote this.

Quote from: satoshi on December 11, 2010, 07:39:16 PM

It would have been nice to get this attention in any other context. WikiLeaks has kicked the hornet's nest, and the swarm is headed towards us.

How Bitcoin’s Founder Satoshi Nakamoto Disappeared: The Untold Story
Eleven years ago today
Satoshi's last email to Gavin Andresen

Quote

This email, or email excerpt, was quoted by Gavin Andresen in an interview in 2014.

Quote

I wish you wouldn’t keep talking about me as a mysterious shadowy figure, the press just turns that into a pirate currency angle. Maybe instead make it about the open source project and give more credit to your dev contributors; it helps motivate them.

JollyGood

legendary

Activity: 2534

Merit: 1713

Top Crypto Casino

Why are you posting this here?

Quote from: ?? on ??

#PROOF OF REGISTRATION
Forum Username: Laden12
Forum Profile Link: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/laden12-3585156
Telegram Username: @Jari2332
Participated Campaigns:Twitter, telegram, Tiktok
BSC Wallet Address: 0xB689D29bF00130ceB7DdD3380C4F0aC69E63583d

PrivacyG

hero member

Activity: 882

Merit: 1873

Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: pooya87 on August 27, 2024, 09:46:33 AM

Yeah. Many of these so called "tech giants" or services that we see that appear to not be harassed by the law enforcement are already fully cooperating with the law enforcement! Like the case with bitcoin mixers. They are either honeypots that continue to exist or they refuse to cooperate and get shut down. Like the Wasabi wallet versus Samourai wallet case. Or Meta versus Telegram. One is cooperating with them, the other had its founder arrested.

I think it is REALLY hard nowadays to use any Service or even technology generally with out having to worry about Law Enforcement spying on you. It is the case not only for Services but even for Tor. I am a Tor user and I am pretty convinced it is very likely that I have at least once been browsing on a malicious Tor Node initiated by non Tor friendly Governments. It sucks. And it sucks even more when Services that PROMISE you exactly this, which is NOT cooperating with Law Enforcement, are generally precisely those who actually cooperate.

It feels like there is no way you can feel liberated from this B S. It is all around you and there is pretty much no way you can 100 percent run away from it. You can try, but slowly they may be catching up with you.

pooya87

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 10611

Quote from: JollyGood on August 26, 2024, 03:31:38 PM

Many people view this as double standards being implemented by law enforcement agencies that allow some tech giants to get away with dubious conduct but aggressively pursue others for reasons that cannot be understood.

Yeah. Many of these so called "tech giants" or services that we see that appear to not be harassed by the law enforcement are already fully cooperating with the law enforcement! Like the case with bitcoin mixers. They are either honeypots that continue to exist or they refuse to cooperate and get shut down. Like the Wasabi wallet versus Samourai wallet case. Or Meta versus Telegram. One is cooperating with them, the other had its founder arrested.

JollyGood

legendary

Activity: 2534

Merit: 1713

Top Crypto Casino

Sure there is a difference but when it comes to large corporations you would expect them all to plead ignorance citing a wide array of excuses regardless of their actual involvement (or lack of) in others breaking their terms and conditions.

As for the excellent analogy you stated, I think giving you the car as a loan without knowing you were going to rob a bank does not provide defence because the prosecution will try their best to demonstrate there was collusion even though I was innocent. Would a jury accept it? I do not know but I would not be the only innocent person imprisoned.

Many people view this as double standards being implemented by law enforcement agencies that allow some tech giants to get away with dubious conduct but aggressively pursue others for reasons that cannot be understood.

Quote from: DaveF on August 26, 2024, 07:41:16 AM

There is a difference between a platform being hardly moderated and the police / government showing up and saying your platform is being used for a crime here is the what we have about when and where and how the crime is being committed and all you have to do is show us who.

If ask to borrow your car and you say yes and then I use it to rob a bank you are probably not going to be charged with anything.

If the cops show up BEFORE I ASK and tell you that I rob banks and borrow peoples cars to do it and they found out I am going to rob a bank later today and you still loan me your car then yeah, they are coming after you too.

-Dave

DaveF

legendary

Activity: 3500

Merit: 6320

Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: JollyGood on August 26, 2024, 04:59:13 AM

Quote from: NotATether on August 26, 2024, 02:24:03 AM

Quote from: JollyGood on August 25, 2024, 06:23:51 PM

It may have happened in 2021 but apparently it seems Proton handed over email related information including IP addresses to French authorities that requested them via a Swiss court. When that request arrived, the Swiss judge forced Proton to log and disclose the IP and browser fingerprint of a specific person. That basically is shocking even though they provided mitigation by saying they had no choice as it was a legal request they had to comply with. All that because the French authorities were seeking information on a climate activist.

This is more of a problem with France than with Proton. Just yesterday, they also arrested the Telegram founder Pavel Durov for not giving them the encryption keys to decrypt all of their user's messages.

I think the issue about the climate activist was down to a Swiss court forcing Proton to adhere to the ruling/request. They did state later that the French authorities would never have been able to identify/locate the climate activist if he had used a VPN as they would have handed over the VPN IP address rather than the IP address of the mobile phone the climate activist was using at the time. Still, they published one piece of information about their no-logging policy but breached it and removed it entirely from their website after the backlash.

Quote from: NotATether on August 26, 2024, 02:24:03 AM

And you know what would happen once one government gets a hold of the decryption keys, they share them with all the other governments upon request.

If he had access to the decryption keys at the time of the arrest in France then many Telegram users will certainly be worried but I doubt he would carry them with him. It seems the problem France have against Durov is the lack of moderation on Telegram. If that is the case they have against him then owners/operators and shareholders of Microsoft, Meta, Google and many others should have been arrested when they stepped foot in France too because platforms they provide are hardly moderated.

There is a difference between a platform being hardly moderated and the police / government showing up and saying your platform is being used for a crime here is the what we have about when and where and how the crime is being committed and all you have to do is show us who.

If ask to borrow your car and you say yes and then I use it to rob a bank you are probably not going to be charged with anything.

If the cops show up BEFORE I ASK and tell you that I rob banks and borrow peoples cars to do it and they found out I am going to rob a bank later today and you still loan me your car then yeah, they are coming after you too.

-Dave

JollyGood

legendary

Activity: 2534

Merit: 1713

Top Crypto Casino

Quote from: NotATether on August 26, 2024, 02:24:03 AM

Quote from: JollyGood on August 25, 2024, 06:23:51 PM

It may have happened in 2021 but apparently it seems Proton handed over email related information including IP addresses to French authorities that requested them via a Swiss court. When that request arrived, the Swiss judge forced Proton to log and disclose the IP and browser fingerprint of a specific person. That basically is shocking even though they provided mitigation by saying they had no choice as it was a legal request they had to comply with. All that because the French authorities were seeking information on a climate activist.

This is more of a problem with France than with Proton. Just yesterday, they also arrested the Telegram founder Pavel Durov for not giving them the encryption keys to decrypt all of their user's messages.

I think the issue about the climate activist was down to a Swiss court forcing Proton to adhere to the ruling/request. They did state later that the French authorities would never have been able to identify/locate the climate activist if he had used a VPN as they would have handed over the VPN IP address rather than the IP address of the mobile phone the climate activist was using at the time. Still, they published one piece of information about their no-logging policy but breached it and removed it entirely from their website after the backlash.

Quote from: NotATether on August 26, 2024, 02:24:03 AM

And you know what would happen once one government gets a hold of the decryption keys, they share them with all the other governments upon request.

If he had access to the decryption keys at the time of the arrest in France then many Telegram users will certainly be worried but I doubt he would carry them with him. It seems the problem France have against Durov is the lack of moderation on Telegram. If that is the case they have against him then owners/operators and shareholders of Microsoft, Meta, Google and many others should have been arrested when they stepped foot in France too because platforms they provide are hardly moderated.

Pmalek

legendary

Activity: 2730

Merit: 7065

Quote from: dkbit98 on August 23, 2024, 10:34:01 AM

This is just another web wallet that I wouldn't consider safe enough for my daily use.
In case Proton server is down you won't be able to use Proton wallet either, only you can do is importing seed words to your own wallet.

You are approaching this from the wrong angle. Of course Proton Wallet isn't as safe as hardware wallets, airgapped systems, or most quality desktop/mobile wallets, but you shouldn't compare it with those superior products. It should only be compared with other web wallets because that's what it is.

What you did is like saying I don't like this new skateboard. It's not as safe as my car, is much slower, offers me no protection against rain and heat, and I get tired pushing myself constantly on the road. That's because you are comparing it to a car, which it isn't meant to be tested against. It's only for skateboard enthusiasts.

NotATether

legendary

Activity: 1568

Merit: 6660

bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org

Quote from: JollyGood on August 25, 2024, 06:23:51 PM

It may have happened in 2021 but apparently it seems Proton handed over email related information including IP addresses to French authorities that requested them via a Swiss court. When that request arrived, the Swiss judge forced Proton to log and disclose the IP and browser fingerprint of a specific person. That basically is shocking even though they provided mitigation by saying they had no choice as it was a legal request they had to comply with. All that because the French authorities were seeking information on a climate activist.

This is more of a problem with France than with Proton. Just yesterday, they also arrested the Telegram founder Pavel Durov for not giving them the encryption keys to decrypt all of their user's messages.

And you know what would happen once one government gets a hold of the decryption keys, they share them with all the other governments upon request.

JollyGood

legendary

Activity: 2534

Merit: 1713

Top Crypto Casino

When weighing up all the benefits related to the company behind it, the fact remains it is still a web wallet and that will entail a degree of concern even for the most open minded crypto enthusiasts.

Keeping that aside, though not directly relevant to their Bitcoin wallet it is important to mention in the past Proton had to face massive negative publicity for claims they made on their website (we do not keep any IP logs) but only to remove the words from their Privacy Policy after the backlash.

It may have happened in 2021 but apparently it seems Proton handed over email related information including IP addresses to French authorities that requested them via a Swiss court. When that request arrived, the Swiss judge forced Proton to log and disclose the IP and browser fingerprint of a specific person. That basically is shocking even though they provided mitigation by saying they had no choice as it was a legal request they had to comply with. All that because the French authorities were seeking information on a climate activist.

Back to their web wallet, I would advise against using it for the same reasons you have cited.

Quote from: Pmalek on July 25, 2024, 04:51:41 AM

Quote from: shield132 on July 25, 2024, 04:08:02 AM

There is no single reason that will push me and many other people to use Proton Wallet instead of Electrum and Sparrow.

Me neither, to be honest. I am using a combination of hardware wallets, desktop, and mobile wallets, and see no reason to bring a web wallet into the mix. Regardless of the company behind it and its non-custodial nature, it remains a web wallet that relies heavily on storing sensitive data on centralized servers. A leak, hack, or an unhappy employee could cause a lot of problems.

PrivacyG

hero member

Activity: 882

Merit: 1873

Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: bitmover on August 23, 2024, 02:45:39 PM

Maybe my father will find Interesting to receive bitcoin using an email . And if he wants to know more, he can just look further in the same wallet

Which is also a bad idea if you ask me. Particularly if older people are involved, which are also easier to fool. A few ideas popped up in my mind for potential Scams and I am sure some idiots will not only think the same but put the Scams into practice too.

bitmover

legendary

Activity: 2352

Merit: 6089

bitcoindata.science

Quote from: dkbit98 on August 23, 2024, 10:34:01 AM

Receiving Bitcoin with email is cool. but this sounds worse to me than using single wallet address, and I don't know anyone who offered to send/receive BTC with proton email.

Maybe it could be an interesting way to introduces bitcoin to older people.

Maybe my father will find Interesting to receive bitcoin using an email . And if he wants to know more, he can just look further in the same wallet

I think overall this wallet is similar and even a competitor to blockchain.info . However, it looks better and safer

Quote from: ABCbits on August 22, 2024, 05:14:17 AM

I'm not interested with the invites. But do you plan to make a short review or impression? While i wouldn't use it, i certainly hope it's more promising than other web wallet out there.

This could be a nice idea .
I can send you 5 usd using my email in this wallet to your email, and then you can send me back. Then we can share the experience.

But I will only be able to it in a few days because I am traveling now Cool

dkbit98

legendary

Activity: 2212

Merit: 7064

Quote from: bitmover on August 21, 2024, 08:16:12 AM

It looks a nice wallet. It supports 12-24 words and also a passphrase.

I am not impressed so far.
This is just another web wallet that I wouldn't consider safe enough for my daily use.
In case Proton server is down you won't be able to use Proton wallet either, only you can do is importing seed words to your own wallet.
Receiving Bitcoin with email is cool. but this sounds worse to me than using single wallet address, and I don't know anyone who offered to send/receive BTC with proton email.

ABCbits

legendary

Activity: 2870

Merit: 7490

Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: bitmover on August 21, 2024, 08:16:12 AM

Hey, I finally got access to my proton wallet!!

I have 5 invites. Anyone wants?

It looks a nice wallet. It supports 12-24 words and also a passphrase.

I'm not interested with the invites. But do you plan to make a short review or impression? While i wouldn't use it, i certainly hope it's more promising than other web wallet out there.

bitmover

legendary

Activity: 2352

Merit: 6089

bitcoindata.science

Hey, I finally got access to my proton wallet!!

I have 5 invites. Anyone wants?

It looks a nice wallet. It supports 12-24 words and also a passphrase.

keychainX

member

Activity: 378

Merit: 53

Telegram @keychainX

Quote from: bitmover on July 24, 2024, 10:13:19 AM

Quote from: NotATether on July 24, 2024, 07:40:59 AM

Granted, I am a Proton enthusiast. But I would not want to use this wallet. This is effectively a web wallet in the style of Bitamp, so any extension or userscript or some other malicious code that compromises your web browser can add a stealer.

I don't think the wallet is open source either. I don't know. I just wrote to customer support asking about that.

It is open source:
https://github.com/protonwallet/

Amazing that you are a visionary. I find that quite expensive, I would like to make a one time paymnet to become a supporter with some new features , but they do not have such plan...

We have the visionary but would never attach a BTC wallet address to the mail account

/KX

RickDeckard

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 3110

Quote from: pooya87 on August 01, 2024, 07:16:39 AM

Quote from: PrivacyG on July 31, 2024, 06:09:28 PM

Fishy if you ask me.

Anything centralized should be considered fishy when it comes to privacy related matters. There is just no way there can be a company with a physical location (centralized point of failure) that the government is not going to visit and put pressure on then owners to cooperate with the authorities.

We simply don't need any other reason than that in my opinion.

+1 on this one. While I understand that having centralized services is great for the overall population - after all most people that I know really want to have all their services in just one place (let it be e-mail, documents, photos, etc) - this kind of business also becomes really interesting from a data gathering point of information. Albeit that Proton has all the motives to avoid doing this considering that it actually acts as a pillar of protecting their customers so any kind of leak or news that could scratch this image would surely mean the company demise.

pooya87

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 10611

Quote from: PrivacyG on July 31, 2024, 06:09:28 PM

Fishy if you ask me.

Anything centralized should be considered fishy when it comes to privacy related matters. There is just no way there can be a company with a physical location (centralized point of failure) that the government is not going to visit and put pressure on then owners to cooperate with the authorities.

We simply don't need any other reason than that in my opinion.

Topic: Proton launches self-custody bitcoin wallet (Read 686 times)