Topic: Proton launches self-custody bitcoin wallet - page 2. (Read 686 times)

Interesting, last time I experimented with creating a Proton Account I met this issue where I was obliged to either use a Mobile Phone number as verification or to abandon the process entirely.  I did not know of this pretty recent article.

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I have to agree, only up to the point where Proton advertises themselves in various ways that attracts a specific type of Customers.  Almost any where you look on their website, they advertise themselves as the Service that frees you from the Big Tech.

https://proton.me/blog/create-an-email-account-without-phone-number-verification

https://proton.me/

More importantly, on the front page they mention this,


Java Script is a deal breaker for me.  Even if it is as Private and Secure as they make it seem, Java Script being mandatory is instantly a no go.  It can be exploited, so the entire 'no body should be able to exploit your data, period' argument falls short in my eyes.

I am really skeptical about Proton generally anyway.  The motive of the entire project is a question mark for me.  They had scandals and controversies in the past too which further raised more questions for me.  They promised they would not hand out any IP to any body and then they handed IPs for a case of the Authorities and after being under fire for it they deleted the statement from their Policy.  I find it very suspect to have a project that 'promotes Freedom and Privacy' not being subject to a lot of hatred from Governments.  It is being praised even by the United Nations.

Fishy if you ask me.

Just a nitpick from the one letter I bolded above.
Your Proton VPN account does NOT have to be the same one you send & receive mail through.
You can setup & configure the VPN though an account you set up at that point in time and then create another one while VPNed in to create an email.

I think the web / hot wallet thing has been discussed to death. It's a hot insecure wallet, just like the one in your pants. Don't leave more in then you are prepared to loose.

-Dave

I've seen some people complaint about it. They claim it it's done to prevent spam or abuse of their free tier, but AFAIK they doesn't provide choice to pay for non-free tier during registration. And i just found they write blog about register email without phone number[1], which is ironic.


Which apply to most modern website. And this part isn't surprising since they have their own CAPTCHA system[2].

[1] https://proton.me/blog/create-an-email-account-without-phone-number-verification
[2] https://proton.me/blog/proton-captcha

I do not know.  I have very mixed feelings about this but they are mostly leaning toward a negative one.  Proton has been looking kind of sketchy in my eyes particularly over the last years.

They have a VPN they advertise as providing Privacy and Freedom to their Users.  However.  The VPN requires a Proton Account.  How does that work?  How do I have Privacy if all my connections are directed through the same Account that I have?  It is also increasingly harder to create a Proton Account without involving personal information such as a Mobile Phone Number.  It was all nice and great before, back when you could have an Account in a few clicks.  Now it just seems sketchy.

I wanted to give this a try.  So I click the link and the first thing I am met with is a Sign In page telling me they need my Java Script enabled to proceed.  Web Wallets are not my preference anyway.  In fact, they are some where at the bottom of the list of preferences, close to Custodial Wallets.  A Web Wallet can not be more Secure than an Open Source Wallet such as Electrum.

Fuck that.  I do not trust them any more.

They added BIP39 to their email recovery option back in 2022, it sure took them long enough to add bitcoin wallet feature.

In any case this sounds intriguing to have a bitcoin web wallet that you can access just through your email account while you also access all the other tools (VPN, storage, etc.) that this company offers. As long as you don't store your coins there and only use it for pocket change, it's a cool tool.

Proton can't give people your emails (they are E2E encrypted, except for the subject header and other metadata), but they can give up your IP address. Just use ProtonVPN whenever you want to check your mail, or any other VPN.

PS. John McAfee had gone complete wacko towards the end of his life. It makes me doubt later claims made by him.

Do you mean giving activist data[1] or something else?


People could create separate Proton account to avoid that, but we know only few people would do that,


That's not impossible. But he probably just lying, just like his claim about his "unhackable" wallet[2].

[1] https://www.wired.com/story/protonmail-amends-policy-after-giving-up-activists-data/
[2] https://www.cnet.com/news/privacy/john-mcafees-unhackable-wallet-is-hackable-company-finally-admits/

Did everyone suddenly forget how Proton mail worked with feds which lead to doxxing of their users?  
Using Proton wallet increases a risk of connecting email addresses with real identity and with your bitcoins.
John McAfee once said that the three letter agency was behind protonmail, we can't verify that, but I also don't trust the people working for Proton, especially their board members.

Since their lowest tier paid plan now has custom domains allowed: https://proton.me/mail/pricing you don't know if the address is proton or not.

[email protected] could be at gmail or proton, unless you look at the MX records or the headers of something sent to you you will not know.

As for the web wallet, it's the same as any hot wallet on your phone, treat it as cash you are able to loose with not worrying about it any you will be fine.

Everyone will have a different pain point about getting hacked / loosing funds.

-Dave

if you take a look at the github repository of the Proton wallet, the terms 'lightning' and 'coinjoin' quickly catch your eye
especially after the shutdown of the two popular coinjoin coordinators of zkSNACKs and Samourai wallet, a large new coordinator based in switzerland would certainly be an important step for many who value privacy

https://github.com/ProtonWallet/andromeda

I could trust them more than random custodial or closed-source web wallet out there, but generally using web wallet isn't good idea. Besides, i feel they offer too many services these days even though i hear complain about poor support for Linux.


I also don't know how popular is it these days. But it's still frequently recommend to people who want email with better privacy (usually better than gmail).

Me neither, to be honest. I am using a combination of hardware wallets, desktop, and mobile wallets, and see no reason to bring a web wallet into the mix. Regardless of the company behind it and its non-custodial nature, it remains a web wallet that relies heavily on storing sensitive data on centralized servers. A leak, hack, or an unhappy employee could cause a lot of problems.

The seed phrase is actually generated automatically when you first open the wallet, but they don't show it you you immediately. Probably because they want you to rely on your Proton Account as much as possible to access the wallets. But you can see the seed phrase, after clicking on a few buttons.


The payment system is like the Lightning Network, but it requires both participants to be using Proton Wallet. So it kinda cancels out the advantage to be fair.

Is Protonmail still popular? I remember that there was a boom in 2016 and almost every privacy-oriented guy was using it. Is the situation still the same? I haven't seen a proton mail address recently.

To be fair, I think it would be better if they prioritize improving their current products instead of creating a new Bitcoin wallet. There is no single reason that will push me and many other people to use Proton Wallet instead of Electrum and Sparrow. If Proton Wallet was a software wallet or an airgapped hardware wallet, I might use it but it's a web wallet, it's no safe choice. Despite the fact that it's open-source, it's still a web wallet and it's not a smart idea to use it but I believe it will definitely be better than blockchain.com if that's the case.

I have a few invitations for Proton Wallet. PM me your Proton email if anyone wants to try it. I'll give preference to high ranked users.


AFAIK it's very limited only now during early access. It will probably be free later. They frequently give access to new services to Lifetime and Visionary accounts first.

I don't know what is special about this wallet so we have to be paid for it. even if it is a hot wallet, better look for free ones, or use a cold wallet like Core or Electrum which is absolutely free and safe.

Just heard about it today and I wanted to test it out, but it's not available unless I pay them for access, and I won't to do that.
What I found out so far is that Proton wallet probably won't be fully open source despite them releasing github link, but let's wait and see.
It's certainly interesting to see one mail provider supporting bitcoin ecosystem.

Proton server is going to be used for saving data, so be careful with this one.
They are going to use some Proton Address Verification system and they explained it more in their blog post:
https://proton.me/blog/proton-wallet-security-model

Even if it open-source and verifiable, I still don't like the idea of generating a seed phrase in a web-app.  A browser extension would be a bit less of a risk, but even those aren't to my liking.  But like Bitmover said; different types of wallets have their place and it all depends on the individual users use case for that wallet.


That's a pretty cool feature.

All in all, I wouldn't be opposed to using this wallet for small sums.

The wallet is supposedly both non-custodial and open-source.

Proton Wallet is a BIP39 compatible wallet that provides users with a 12-word seed phrase. On top of that, there is some sort of master seed, which they call recovery phrase of your Proton account. You can also extend your seed with passphrases and activate 2FA.

If both the sender and receiver use Proton Wallet, you only need the e-mail address of the receiver to send bitcoin. The wallet automatically selects a new and unused bitcoin address that belongs to the receiver in the background. As soon as it gets funded, it gets removed from circulation to never be used again (to avoid address reuse). You can, of course, also send your BTC by manually entering bitcoin addresses of any other wallets and services. 

I think it just depends.

If you have money in a hardware wallet locked inside a bunker 20m under the ground it is very safe, even from a nuclear war.

But do you need to keep all your money there? Will you go to the bunker everyday when you want to buy a simple bread and a coffee?

You can have many different wallets, with different degrees of security, for different purposes.

I use mobile wallets for funds which wouldnt hurt me if I lose...