Provably fair, correct me if I'm wrong - page 2.

kotwica666

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Quote from: unamis76 on January 20, 2015, 05:36:53 PM

Quote from: Snail2 on January 20, 2015, 09:20:07 AM

Quote from: unamis76 on January 20, 2015, 09:12:52 AM

I think the only way to scam is running with the funds... Provably fair covers many trust issues.

That Provably fair stuff is about the randomness of rolls. Not about the owner or about what the casino doing with it's own coins. So that covers many trust issues indeed, but not all issues/possible issues.

But if a casino gambles with investors coins, the long term probability is to lose them... am I right?

No, he think that if owner play on his own (provably fair) dice site his clients have less chance to win. This is like theory - if someone play more have more chance to win..

unamis76

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Quote from: Snail2 on January 20, 2015, 09:20:07 AM

Quote from: unamis76 on January 20, 2015, 09:12:52 AM

I think the only way to scam is running with the funds... Provably fair covers many trust issues.

That Provably fair stuff is about the randomness of rolls. Not about the owner or about what the casino doing with it's own coins. So that covers many trust issues indeed, but not all issues/possible issues.

But if a casino gambles with investors coins, the long term probability is to lose them... am I right?

captainwire

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are you implying this as a way to attract bigger whales ot their site? if they play their own game type of thing.

arvindr

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Quote from: unamis76 on January 20, 2015, 09:12:52 AM

I think the only way to scam is running with the funds... Provably fair covers many trust issues.

Sites not taking investmments can't run away with a lot. Its a good practice to withdraw all funds after gambling.

philiveyjr

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Quote from: 4ever on January 20, 2015, 06:39:06 AM

Quote from: findftp on January 20, 2015, 05:19:58 AM

Many bitcoin gambling sites state that they are provable fair.
Let's assume they are.

But what if they bet on their own game many many times, wouldn't they increase their profit by doing so?
If they create the highest betting volume, they have a higher stake in the whole game.

Do I miss something?

They might not even lose the transaction fees if they just update the amoiunt in the accounts manually.
Also, how would this help owners in the non-invetment site ?

I dont think it can..! other than the marketing point of view.. n generating traffic n stuff.!!

Snail2

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Quote from: unamis76 on January 20, 2015, 09:12:52 AM

I think the only way to scam is running with the funds... Provably fair covers many trust issues.

That Provably fair stuff is about the randomness of rolls. Not about the owner or about what the casino doing with it's own coins. So that covers many trust issues indeed, but not all issues/possible issues.

unamis76

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I think the only way to scam is running with the funds... Provably fair covers many trust issues.

kotwica666

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It looks like owner can probably always find a way to cheat customers. Sad

Seems to be the safest solution in which the owner is sharing earnings with investors - more investors safer casino.

whirlpoolian

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i always doubt if casino really provably fair, thats why i created this type of betting. its simple, and everyone will understands. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/new-betting-method-what-do-you-think-930646

Snail2

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Quote from: 4ever on January 20, 2015, 06:39:06 AM

Quote from: findftp on January 20, 2015, 05:19:58 AM

Many bitcoin gambling sites state that they are provable fair.
Let's assume they are.

But what if they bet on their own game many many times, wouldn't they increase their profit by doing so?
If they create the highest betting volume, they have a higher stake in the whole game.

Do I miss something?

They might not even lose the transaction fees if they just update the amoiunt in the accounts manually.
Also, how would this help owners in the non-invetment site ?

If the game isn't an on-chain game then there are no transaction fees. The only befit (at first look) is increasing the number of rolls and bets. So they can say that more than 1000 BTC have been gambled on the site, however in reality that 1000 is only 100 or even 10.

4ever

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Quote from: findftp on January 20, 2015, 05:19:58 AM

Many bitcoin gambling sites state that they are provable fair.
Let's assume they are.

But what if they bet on their own game many many times, wouldn't they increase their profit by doing so?
If they create the highest betting volume, they have a higher stake in the whole game.

Do I miss something?

They might not even lose the transaction fees if they just update the amoiunt in the accounts manually.
Also, how would this help owners in the non-invetment site ?

kotwica666

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Quote from: findftp on January 20, 2015, 05:56:13 AM

When you win, you get the stake
When you lose, you lose to yourself.

Other tiny players can only win when they win Undecided

(dumb sentence, but I hope you get my point)

The owners of the site can increase their profit by increasing the betting volume. The only thing they really lose is the transaction fee I just figured.

Yes. Now i get it! Hmm, interesting..

When he lose he losing only from his own pocket.

That is possible. I must talk about that with my friend.. He is good in this stuff. I will let you know.

arvindr

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Quote from: findftp on January 20, 2015, 05:19:58 AM

Many bitcoin gambling sites state that they are provable fair.
Let's assume they are.

But what if they bet on their own game many many times, wouldn't they increase their profit by doing so?
If they create the highest betting volume, they have a higher stake in the whole game.

Do I miss something?

This probably applies to only invest only sites. I think thats a risk investors have to take. Some sites have tried to come up with a provably fair invest model as well. Not sure how successful that has beeen.

rolldice.io

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Quote from: kotwica666 on January 20, 2015, 05:43:58 AM

Quote from: findftp on January 20, 2015, 05:19:58 AM

Many bitcoin gambling sites state that they are provable fair.
Let's assume they are.

But what if they bet on their own game many many times, wouldn't they increase their profit by doing so?
If they create the highest betting volume, they have a higher stake in the whole game.

Do I miss something?

I don't think that there is any possibility of cheating when game is provably fair..
Here it is well described:

https://satoshidice.com/provably-fair/

The site operator could still cheat the investors. By knowing the server seeds they could predict any roll outcome and drain the bankroll. Checkout our site https://rolldice.io, we developed a solution specifically to this problem, also checkout our thread at https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/rolldiceio-the-first-provably-fair-for-investors-and-players-bitcoin-dice-game-920704

findftp

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Delusional crypto obsessionist

Quote from: kotwica666 on January 20, 2015, 05:43:58 AM

Quote from: findftp on January 20, 2015, 05:19:58 AM

Many bitcoin gambling sites state that they are provable fair.
Let's assume they are.

But what if they bet on their own game many many times, wouldn't they increase their profit by doing so?
If they create the highest betting volume, they have a higher stake in the whole game.

Do I miss something?

I don't think that there is any possibility of cheating when game is provably fair..
Here it is well described:

https://satoshidice.com/provably-fair/

I would rather have a source other than a gambling website.
I think creating large betting volume on your own website will benefit yourself when you are the owner.
When you win, you get the stake
When you lose, you lose to yourself.

Other tiny players can only win when they win Undecided

(dumb sentence, but I hope you get my point)

The owners of the site can increase their profit by increasing the betting volume. The only thing they really lose is the transaction fee I just figured.

kotwica666

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Merit: 1035

Quote from: findftp on January 20, 2015, 05:19:58 AM

Many bitcoin gambling sites state that they are provable fair.
Let's assume they are.

But what if they bet on their own game many many times, wouldn't they increase their profit by doing so?
If they create the highest betting volume, they have a higher stake in the whole game.

Do I miss something?

I don't think that there is any possibility of cheating when game is provably fair..
Here it is well described:

https://satoshidice.com/provably-fair/

ComboChris

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Quote from: findftp on January 20, 2015, 05:19:58 AM

Many bitcoin gambling sites state that they are provable fair.
Let's assume they are.

But what if they bet on their own game many many times, wouldn't they increase their profit by doing so?
If they create the highest betting volume, they have a higher stake in the whole game.

Do I miss something?

Not sure what exactly you're talking about. If you're talking about non-invest sites: They would just lose money to themselves which would only make sense in terms of promoting the sites('we have high rollers', etc.)
On Invest sites, the owner could actually bet on the site and win the investors' bitcoin, since they knows the server seed/secret. But the fact that investors must trust the owner with not running with their money anyways(which would be much faster if the owner wanted to scam) justifies trusting the owner to not bet on his own sites/rig his bets.

findftp

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Merit: 1008

Delusional crypto obsessionist

Many bitcoin gambling sites state that they are provable fair.
Let's assume they are.

But what if they bet on their own game many many times, wouldn't they increase their profit by doing so?
If they create the highest betting volume, they have a higher stake in the whole game.

Do I miss something?

Topic: Provably fair, correct me if I'm wrong - page 2. (Read 1406 times)