Topic: Provably fair dice - real or bulshit ? - page 3. (Read 22732 times)

I can see why some people will come up with this in their mind,
as mostly you will win if you bet on small amount, but once you stack increased,
you will just lost it.

So people may thing the Provably fair is sth bulshit

Your not getting the point. Yes, the system makes you lose in the long run, because there is a house edge. There has to be, since it is Player vs House. If there was a negative house edge or 0 house edge, it would be very risky for the site owners. The point of provably fair is to prove that roll X is fair, and that they didn't rig the outcome, not that you are expected to get a profit. Provably fair on dice sites is completely fair (except for pocketdice, but it isn't a dice site like PD), and it is the house edge that makes things "unfair" for the player.

For my opinion, provably fair on dice sites is completely not fair. The system is always make you lose if you play for long run on dice. That's why i never play dice for long run.

yes in a dice game was very fair in real life 

Probably fair - it is a question. In fact I think that if dice site owners do not crash, there is profit for them, otherwise they will close down their dice sites. 

All business sure aim for profit, there is no business that not aim for profit. Not only dice site should be provably fair, all casino must have this provably fair or people wont play at their site. Before start a gambling site provably fair is a must, thats why most site nowadays always promote their provably fair system and house edge because both of these are the core of gambling site

Yeah, but still the can still lose if you have the luck that anyone dont have 
many Casino closed because they went bankrupt.

Yeah, Dice sites are also business. And owners want to have profit. That's why dice sites would be fair if you are a first time dicer but as the time goes by they will just let you lose any time you play.

Dude even if the sites are fair it doesnt mean that you will win. Always keep on your mind that house always win before you gamble. And thats the risk we are taking. If someone lose it doesnt mean that house isnt fair its just because house always win.

Hufflepuff incident wasn't manipulating, he basically had an second account with same server secret, so he first bet there and with knowledge of outcome (or with revealed server secret from second account) placed bigger bets in his first account.

If everything done correctly, manipulation is impossible, operator cannot change predefined result. Without client seed, or with client seed generated by operator (even locally, as operator can send it to the server before generating server seed, very hard to catch), operator can cheat by learning players' behavior. Example: You always bet High 50, so by knowing client seed, operator can generate server seed that give more Low 50 results (but this is too dangerous for operator because you may decide to play Low 50 this time).

Provably fair is a best thing happened to gambling, after bitcoin

No, HP could only get the results of his bets beforehand. He would then just make some losing bets to make it seem as he was not cheating, while in the long run he mostly won.
Yes a casino can, however it wouldn't go unnoticed for more than a week. There are several examples of such manipulations, with 999dice being one of them.

That's what you called house versus the bettors, and due to the house edge house is always an overall winner. The provably fair is real but I am still skeptical on it due to the fact that I don't know how read it since I am not much of a computer genius but I would still gamble on them only what I can afford to lose.

If it was such then how HufflePuff scammed them.
Primedice would easily know that he is scamming, please get enough proofs because otherwise you just get bad comments.

Although the site always win in the end but they will always winner and loser and house is playing with so many player so although they win doesnt mean that all player sure lose. Some of them sure get a good profit too but oeverall it looks like house will always win. Play with a longer time or shorter time this is only some fallacy because winning or losing is depends on your luck not on the time that you spend and you can't be greedy because this will eat up your balance for sure

I am not all that techy and I can't say that I know every detail of Provably Fair system. I know basics and understand how this system works.
However there were cases in the past that users found a way to tinker with Provably Fair system and manipulate outcome of a roll (Hufflepuff incident).
And now my question: can this scenario be reversed somehow? So that House could in the theory manipulate the rolls?

Since one of the inputs is a clientseed (that the site doesn't know when you get the serverseedhash), the future rolls are all random and the site cannot influence it. But after the first bet (or when the site has the clientseed), the site can indeed calculate all future rolls. The site just cannot influence or change them. A hacker could also do this and win all the bets, which is why security is so important for the site owner. Although with the "per roll" method, if the hacker can get the seeds, it's equally dangerous since it already has the clientseed so can calculate the bet result as well.



For the player, the weak point is mostly that "automated verifying" is easier with the "per roll method" (while manually checking or using a verifier is easier with the "nonce method".) Overall the "nonce method" is much better for the player, although I can understand the initial reason to have "per roll" for MP.





edit: another potential disadvantage of the "nonce method", is that all future rolls are already predicted. So let's say you have a bad losing streak so you stop betting and you start to verify your rolls (generate a new serverseed)... it's possible to see what your next bet result would have been. If this would have been a win, you could make yourself pretty crazy This obviously isn't really a technical thing though.

Rigged or not rigged, the house still wins, they are in the business to generate profit. Please bear always in mind that you cannot last in any online gambling sites especially in dice due to house edge the gambling site sets. In order to win don't play long because the longer you play the more chances you lost in the long run.

Reputed sites may not do these kind of hidden things because they know the potential of this online gambling business. If they can attract more people with honesty and good service then they can make really big money in normal ways without doing all these hidden things. But new sites may do these short cuts to get more money in faster ways, so chose carefully to gamble.

thats your opinion and thats fair enough but you don'd mind if we don't agree. a good example is roulette