Putin orders sanctions against Turkey after downing of jet

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: johnsmith1964 on December 06, 2015, 07:41:09 AM

Its allies will stick up for turkey and the EU especially does try to help Turkey a lot. Also in terms of what Russia is going to do it is all just posturing, Russia's economy is is already weakened and these sanctions against Turkey will hardly make a difference.

There is no guarantee that the European Union will help Turkey beyond a certain point. The EU has enough problems of its own, with some of its member nations (Greece, Spain, Portugal.etc) close to bankruptcy. Also, they are struggling to deal with the huge migration inflow, which is likely to cost them at least EUR 100 billion per year from 2017 onward.

galdur

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The Tipping Point.

It´s official: Nobody at all, both sides of the Atlantic believes these yokels anymore.

Thus, belatedly:

Obama, Cameron Agree Syrian Political Settlement Must Involve Russia, Iran

Sputnik International 2:03 pm

UK Prime Minister David Cameron and US President Barack Obama agreed that the settlement of the Syrian crisis must involve Russia and Iran, Downing street said in a Sunday statement.

galdur

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Quote from: johnsmith1964 on December 06, 2015, 07:54:05 AM

Hmm, ok i agree.

It does look like both sides will lose money. There does seem to be a few energy deals on the table, so yes you are correct that turkey may lose out more than russia. But i still think russia is still much more unstable than russia.

Quote from: galdur on December 06, 2015, 07:46:21 AM

Quote from: johnsmith1964 on December 06, 2015, 07:41:09 AM

Turkey is actually very lucky to be a member of NATO. It can rely on its allies if it is attacked.

Its allies will stick up for turkey and the EU especially does try to help Turkey a lot. Also in terms of what Russia is going to do it is all just posturing, Russia's economy is is already weakened and these sanctions against Turkey will hardly make a difference.

Yeah, i can´t imagine that loss of dozens of billions of dollars in business will do much harm to Turkey. Also closed export routes will be great for Turkish exporters. Ballooning costs are always good for business. And since Turkey is an exceptionally stable country as it is, those benefits will only make it even more stable.

Where do you figure that Turkey is going to get gas from if Russia turns that off? Hint: They don´t really have any gas producing friends in the region, which is understandable in light of their behavior in the last years supporting extremists here and there.

They´re just lucky that Russia supplies ONLY HALF of their fuel otherwise they could get in real trouble.

galdur

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Last I checked 1250 trucks heading for Central Asia were stuck at the Russian border. Maybe there´s 2000 there now for all I know. Trucks full of cargo that don´t move, what´s not to like about that.

johnsmith1964

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Hmm, ok i agree.

It does look like both sides will lose money. There does seem to be a few energy deals on the table, so yes you are correct that turkey may lose out more than russia. But i still think russia is still much more unstable than russia.

Quote from: galdur on December 06, 2015, 07:46:21 AM

Quote from: johnsmith1964 on December 06, 2015, 07:41:09 AM

Turkey is actually very lucky to be a member of NATO. It can rely on its allies if it is attacked.

Its allies will stick up for turkey and the EU especially does try to help Turkey a lot. Also in terms of what Russia is going to do it is all just posturing, Russia's economy is is already weakened and these sanctions against Turkey will hardly make a difference.

Yeah, i can´t imagine that loss of dozens of billions of dollars in business will do much harm to Turkey. Also closed export routes will be great for Turkish exporters. Ballooning costs are always good for business. And since Turkey is an exceptionally stable country as it is, those benefits will only make it even more stable.

galdur

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Quote from: johnsmith1964 on December 06, 2015, 07:41:09 AM

Turkey is actually very lucky to be a member of NATO. It can rely on its allies if it is attacked.

Its allies will stick up for turkey and the EU especially does try to help Turkey a lot. Also in terms of what Russia is going to do it is all just posturing, Russia's economy is is already weakened and these sanctions against Turkey will hardly make a difference.

Yeah, i can´t imagine that loss of dozens of billions of dollars in business will do much harm to Turkey. Also closed export routes will be great for Turkish exporters. Ballooning costs are always good for business. And since Turkey is an exceptionally stable country as it is, those benefits will only make it even more stable.

johnsmith1964

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Turkey is actually very lucky to be a member of NATO. It can rely on its allies if it is attacked.

Its allies will stick up for turkey and the EU especially does try to help Turkey a lot. Also in terms of what Russia is going to do it is all just posturing, Russia's economy is is already weakened and these sanctions against Turkey will hardly make a difference.

galdur

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Quote from: Ayoko on December 06, 2015, 07:30:53 AM

On a different perspective, it's putin vs the world.

And putin is the good guy. who's gonna ally with who? Is everyone the bad guy or good guy?

It´s definitely not Putin and Russia against the world. I can´t imagine anyone with a pulse taking much seriously of what has been coming from Obama and cameron and some other leading lights in the rest of the world. Given their record. Serial-liars end up without any credibility at all eventually I guess.

Ayoko

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On a different perspective, it's putin vs the world.

And putin is the good guy. who's gonna ally with who? Is everyone the bad guy or good guy?

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Balthazar on December 05, 2015, 11:53:19 AM

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/12/04/state-dept-rejects-russia-s-claims-that-turkey-smuggling-isis-oil.html
Ahaha, what a bunch of shit Grin

Seems like Obama and Erdogan are the only ones who still believe that ISIS oil is not flowing in to Turkey. Russia has provided the media with enough evidence to prove that tankers and container trucks carrying ISIS oil are crossing the Syria-Turkey border frequently. Obviously, the Americans are also involved in this, which explains why they are so quick to defend the Turks.

galdur

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Quote from: countryfree on December 05, 2015, 01:02:13 PM

For the first time in my life, I fully support Putin. I know Turkey is a NATO member and that it has close ties with the EU, but it's time to realize this country do not belong to the western world. Istanbul is a quite modern city, but the rest of the country is third world at best, islamist at worst. And Erdogan is definitely an islamist.

Turkey should be kicked out of NATO. If it ever joins the EU, the whole thing will crash.

Of course it will crash. That´s the plan. Russia´s great strength is that she is always underestimated. Which makes it very easy for them to help the opposition dig their own graves. If for example Obama and the motley crew that advises him knew chess from cheeseburgers and had a clue about strategy they´d be more careful in dealing with the Russians. NATO leadership? They´re easy, it´s just another garbage dumpster for politicians past their expiry date. They don´t know their ass from the elbow. Putin´s dog could teach them tricks, maybe.

It will crash and NATO will crash and the former Warsaw block and probably Germany and Greece will drift towards Russia and with it also get closer with Russia´s great partner China. Just a question of time.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

For the first time in my life, I fully support Putin. I know Turkey is a NATO member and that it has close ties with the EU, but it's time to realize this country do not belong to the western world. Istanbul is a quite modern city, but the rest of the country is third world at best, islamist at worst. And Erdogan is definitely an islamist.

Turkey should be kicked out of NATO. If it ever joins the EU, the whole thing will crash.

Balthazar

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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/12/04/state-dept-rejects-russia-s-claims-that-turkey-smuggling-isis-oil.html

Ahaha, what a bunch of shit Grin

galdur

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on December 05, 2015, 10:39:33 AM

Quote from: galdur on December 05, 2015, 09:44:27 AM

That´s their problem. I´m sure they´ll find a very expensive solution. Probably in a few months the military will take over and hopefully clean house. Later, if some people that have both oars in the water can be found to be in charge of this basket case, maybe relations with Russia will return to normal. Time will tell.

The Turkish military toppling Erdogan? I don't think so. The Turkish Armed Forces used to be a staunchly secular institution. But that was almost a decade ago. Now Erdogan has purged the army of all the secular officers and replaced them with the pro-ISIS types and ultra-nationalists. Right now, the military is solidly behind Erdogan.

Yeah, I could have guessed that he´d taken steps be fully nutcase staffed to ensure total and indestructible happiness in Turkey-NATO relations. Like works well with like. Now it fits perfectly together like turd and #####le.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: galdur on December 05, 2015, 09:44:27 AM

That´s their problem. I´m sure they´ll find a very expensive solution. Probably in a few months the military will take over and hopefully clean house. Later, if some people that have both oars in the water can be found to be in charge of this basket case, maybe relations with Russia will return to normal. Time will tell.

The Turkish military toppling Erdogan? I don't think so. The Turkish Armed Forces used to be a staunchly secular institution. But that was almost a decade ago. Now Erdogan has purged the army of all the secular officers and replaced them with the pro-ISIS types and ultra-nationalists. Right now, the military is solidly behind Erdogan.

Balthazar

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Hehe, first shipment of syrian oranges and lemons to Russia, 800 tons approximately.

http://rusnovosti.ru/posts/398611

galdur

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on December 05, 2015, 08:59:08 AM

Quote from: galdur on December 03, 2015, 09:32:40 PM

Excellent. Delays, cumbersome alternate transport routes to Central Asia, increased costs, that has to hurt.

The article says that now the trucks will be re-routed through Azerbaijan. But how will they reach Kazakhstan from Azerbaijan? Azerbaijan is bordered by Russia to the north, and Iran to the South. Are they going to travel through Iran? That is very unlikely. The terrain is very steep, the roads are really bad, and the Iranians don't share warm relations with Turkey.

That´s their problem. I´m sure they´ll find a very expensive solution. Probably in a few months the military will take over and hopefully clean house. Later, if some people that have both oars in the water can be found to be in charge of this basket case, maybe relations with Russia will return to normal. Time will tell.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: galdur on December 03, 2015, 09:32:40 PM

Excellent. Delays, cumbersome alternate transport routes to Central Asia, increased costs, that has to hurt.

The article says that now the trucks will be re-routed through Azerbaijan. But how will they reach Kazakhstan from Azerbaijan? Azerbaijan is bordered by Russia to the north, and Iran to the South. Are they going to travel through Iran? That is very unlikely. The terrain is very steep, the roads are really bad, and the Iranians don't share warm relations with Turkey.

galdur

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Excellent. Delays, cumbersome alternate transport routes to Central Asia, increased costs, that has to hurt.

-----------------------------------

1,250 trucks carrying Turkish exports blocked at Russian border: Shipping association

Some 1,250 trucks transferring Turkish goods have been blocked from entering Russia and are stranded at border posts, a Turkish shipping association says. ....

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/11/30/439795/Russia-Turkey-Syria-Putin-terrorist-

galdur

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Black plays Nd4! White loses the queen for the two knights, a hopeless situation, or saves her and suffers a quick and forced checkmate. White resigns.

Topic: Putin orders sanctions against Turkey after downing of jet (Read 1540 times)