Topic: PytagoraZ & komisariatku are alts (Read 2683 times)

Personally I would bar alt accounts from entering the contest -- I mean a lot of the ones that don't even look like pies are probably all made by the same person or people. But of course its not always easy to prove who is or isn't an alt, etc.

For the price prediction contests though, that's just pure scumbaggery to use multiple accounts in the same contest. I frankly don't care if its in the contest runner's rules or not, for me it implies an inherent non-trustworthiness.

There is one sizable farm that actually all enters these contests together. I busted about half of them, was just getting annoying seeing them all take advantage of other peoples' generosity and nobody noticing or doing anything about it... Will get around to them next.

Just for a quick recap, if all the names of the associated accounts are compiled then this is what the complete list should appear as:

akbarharyadi8
asrinur
coklat gurih
cyberdg
Hagz
havi agasa
komisariatku
Maftukh
nyupangcoin
pentol86
PytagoraZ
razor92
tu_kang

Personally, I would not limit the total to the names mentioned above because once the can of worms is opened, it usually leads to surprises.

I support the forum mission of being as free as possible as I have stated previously on my posts. I was just providing some rationale (from my perspective) of what could motivate the use of multiple accounts, I am sure that there can be others (and more depending of one's perspective).

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I wasn't aware that similar events happened with BCA. If I do run next year edition more feedback will have to be gathered in order to reach a set of balanced rules I guess...

No worry, Rick! In fact, to be sincere, paid2 made the initial remark about this issue... It crossed my mind too, but he mentioned it faster than me (he is younger and faster, heh... -- also having bought his second palace with BTC too, but that's irrelevant now lol)


While I agree with LV general idea, it's also true that, strictly regarding this contest, there really is no rule preventing PytagoraZ from being eligible. This, of course, is not pointing the finger at you, but an observation... We can only learn from such incidents and better the set of rules in time. Same happened with BCA during years and also with other similar events. It's really impossible to anticipate everything what can happen the future, what a particular user may do or try... so we can only adapt to the situation.

You missed a scenario that comes down to Bitcointalk being as free as possible, and offering free speech:

As shown above, theymos disagrees.

Considering the ongoing discussing I went ahead and made another reading of mprep's unofficial lsit of (official) Bitcointalk rules[1]. Considering the case at hand, the relevant rules that I found were the following (someone correct me if I am wrong):
Note: None of the accounts presented by jokers10[2] are banned from the forum so I didn't post the rule number 25. Perhaps one may find more accounts that may be related but as of now it doesn't seem applicable.

From my perspective, there are a couple of scenarios (that come to my mind as of now) where the need of having multiple accounts is justified and understandable (but always with transparency regarding it):

• Separating a business concept from the user account - Assuming that a user wants to launch a new business/service in the forum of his conception, and as long as there is transparency on the process, I see as understandable the desire to separate the user account from the business account.
• OPSEC reasons - LoyceMobile[3] is a good example of it. If a user wants to keep up to date with the forum discussion but isn't near their device of trust 24/7, then it makes sense to create a "secondary" account mainly used in a not so secure environment;
• Scrapping tools (by means of a bot) - Self explanatory.

The not so honorable need to have multiple accounts, from my perspective, only boils down to the following:

• Account farming for the purpose of enrolling in signature campaigns;
• Ban evading;

The previous two actions are motivated by ill intentions in either scenario - as both actions break signature campaign rules(1) and the forum rules (#25)[1] - and the people that do end up creating the accounts for these purpose definitely know that what they are doing is wrong (but decide to ignore it with the mantra of "I am too smart to be caught"). As consequences besides banning I know that, depending on the forum, there are different ways to deal with this issue : Either ban entire IP's from countries where this kind of behaviour has a pattern and abuse ( or even banning the usage of TOR and VPN to access the account so that these cases could be detected more easily. As it stands removing VPN and/or TOR usage would be a hit to the freedom of the forum (and the privacy that I, as many, advocate for) so I do not think these are feasible choices.

On this particular case, and after (re)reading the whole thread, the action of both users (or the user) isn't a correct one towards the community. Assuming that all the accounts are from Indonesia, we are talking about a country with a population of 279,204,661[4] (and increasing every second!) - that is the fourth most populous country[5] - and that, somehow, the cosmic event that justifies the connection of these users[2] is that they happen to be just friends[6]? . What would be the odds of it happening right here in the forum in this specific condition?

As for PytagoraZ participation on the contest, the edition that I am running doesn't state rules to deal with this kind of behaviour and I don't know if it would be fair to insert them right now considering the stage of it. I will consider this a lesson learned and, if the next edition happens by me, will surely take this into consideration in order to create a more fair contest amongst everyone.

Overall I tend to agree with GazetaBitcoin perspective (considering that the contest doesn't have a rule for this scenario but I am open to discussion):


There is still a lot of time to vote and I highly encourage anyone to vote (it's free!) since I believe we have some great entries on this year edition and that this event shouldn't let other contestants feel that they are being damaged in any way... I will update my second post on the voting thread alerting users for this situation as I believe that is the only thing that I can do as of now. The decision will rest upon each user interpretation of the whole situation.

PS: Thank you for bringing this issue to my attention @GazetaBitcoin.

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[1]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/unofficial-list-of-official-bitcointalkorg-rules-guidelines-faq-703657
[2]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.63813270
[3]https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/loycemobile-1903546
[4]https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/indonesia-population/
[5]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesia
[6]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.63813430

I forgot the reason I used that account because maybe I did that in 2017 or 2018. Maybe I joined the same campaign or another reason, I really forgot. I admit that I have done that and I do it more often with the tu_kang account.

Regarding me buying a laptop, he is a close friend of mine and asked me to teach him how to earn money for his college education and he doesn't have a laptop. I bought him a laptop but he failed to take part in the campaign because he couldn't write blog articles, in the past I preferred to take part in blog campaigns than anything else.

For those accusations, I admit everything

Talking about using an existing account rather than creating new one, past mistake, and things around it, do you mind to perhaps explain to me the situation with using maftukh's account to submit a content bounty? It's a content, I can't see the necessity of borrowing an account, be it currently actively used or dormant, just to submit an entry, that can be done through your own account. Unless you mistakenly made the post with different account, i.e. you didn't mean to submit with maftukh's account, but you didn't realize that you did?

Yes, as described. We are different people, if I have many accounts it is easier for me to use an account that already has a rank than to create a new account. But for past mistakes, I have admitted them and if anyone finds out my other mistakes I will admit it if it is true and say no if it is not true.

Thank you Shasan for all the help you have provided and I apologize if I have made many mistakes to you

I have no interest in anything of you whether positive or negative. I was curious to know the reality of both of your accounts and it is revealed by Nutildah I am thankful for that. Also, for the kindness of Nutildah, I think my fund has been recovered though it is not sure if you would repay or not. Thank you as well for the repayment and wish you all the best.

I thought about this since first moment I saw this thread. Unfortunately, the contest has no specific rules for dealing with current case. I believe there is nothing to be done about it -- at least by RickDeckard. The only thing which would be common sense, in this case, would be for users to not vote him anymore.

But since this is a forum where free speech is encouraged as much as it is possible, this involves also that people can vote for him and his pie. Receiving votes may look abnormal or immoral but, since no contest rules are broken, I don't think there is anything which can be done.

Maybe we can have Rick's input too, in case he sees this post...

I just went back to the past through those links you provided, because I had grown curious about that image since the first time I saw it. It seems it kinda has become some kind of recurring meme here in the forum, specially in the reputation section. Anyways...
Picture me surprised, because I always assumed the picture itself was a fabrication, some edition made by some forum member as an allegory to the typical group of people who join in here in groups to take some advantage off bounty campaigns, never expected the material to have been uploaded by one of the participants themselves as part of a plea for their accounts not to get tagged. 🫨

It is like whoever shared the picture in the first place lacked any bit of awareness on the rules and etiquette of the forum (or any online community of this type) on what it is frown upon and what it is not. One does not stop seeing baffling stuff around here as years pass by. Though, even though compared to the scams and massive financial losses this should be nothing in my eyes, for some reason it still impresses me.

I admit my many mistakes in the past. So there is no benefit for me to lie about the account, if the account is mine then I will admit it.

You can ask me if you find any other mistakes of mine, or if you prefer to believe in your own assumptions, that's fine.

You are kind-hearted person who taught about the forum, campaign, and so on and later took the account from the real owner. Please try not to speak too much lie. People on the forum are not too foolish. And never think you are the smartest one.

Provided he hasn't cheated on that contest using his alts or tried to vote using the alt accounts, I think he can potentially win the prize. I looked through the contest rules and I didn't see any mention of users getting disqualified once they got tagged by DT members.
Maybe the organizer forgot some of those details, but it means that even users who had been tagged in the past could participate in the contest.

I was about to post this but since you've already done so, I'll just give my suggestion. If he violates the contest rules, he should be disqualified from receiving any prize. However, if the rules don't mention it he still has a chance to win the prize (specially he submitted a great entry). I believe the decision should be left to the contest organizer and its participants but if you ask me whether he can still win the prize, I will disqualify him as he may have submitted another entry using his alt in the contest. Once a cheater always a cheater.

In the light of recent discoveries, should we accept that PytagoraZ continue to get votes and therefore potentially win a prize?

He has cheated in the past with alts in some contests.

[VOTING PHASE OPEN] 🥧 Bitcointalk Pie Baking Contest (2nd Edition) 🥧

(Don't want to spam Pie baking thread and don't want to create a new topic for this)

The game for many accounts in this farm is clearly over. I did not expect the main protagonist to vanish without trying to drag this out for a few pages of the thread in the hope that some or all of the tags will be removed. Unfortunately for him (as with many others), he is wasting his time as it seems members (including myself) will not remove the tags.

I always knew the PytagoraZ account was playing a manipulative game therefore tagged it last year but cannot recall ever interacting with the komisariatku account.

If he has other accounts in his farm that have not yet been identified, eventually they will be. Maybe he should focus on trying to protect them and just give up on the ones mentioned in this thread.

Yes, I know about that. I'm quite interested in psychology and used to like reading about psychoanalysis, although I thought Freud seemed pretty crazy with his experiments. Would you like to explain something about that?

Didn't the OP tell me to defend myself in this thread? Maybe you need to buy glasses so you can read clearly. That's not humble at all, if you want to argue with me, come on


What do you want to convey? Did your mother lose her underwear?

I'm not interested in arguing with you

Or maybe wait till you meet him again at the coffee shop?

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I suggest you read about Dissociative identity disorder, it's when someone has two or more distinct personalities, the peak of it is when those personalities start to communicate with one another.

My humble advice -- stop trying to defend yourself, even if you (or both of you) were actually innocent, there is nothing you can say or do to undo what has been done, you will probably start a new account or use one of the "unfound" accounts to start climbing a ladder again, might as well just save the efforts and start now.

Real credit goes to djuragan I had to search hard to find back the link.

Great job nutildah and also, very wise decision to wait until the loans were paid back to shasan. No wonder you won the title of Best Scam buster of the forum!
I tagged both accounts myself as well. Other than that, should also the other accounts found by jokers10 be tagged as well?

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Impressive work, jokers10! Your finding brings more light over the amplitude of entire situation.

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LMAO, this was precisely what crossed my head when I started reading this thread. For the reference though, let's give credit to The Pharmacist for the lovely picture =)))

Absolute pure class from you for holding on to this while both accounts had outstanding loans.

Well, he was a manipulator and quite a seasoned one therefore many members fell for his tactics. Fortunately, I discovered very early on he was an alt-account but did not find a link between him and his other accounts.

It seems this issue is potentially is far bigger connected than anticipated at first glance.

I am glad I tagged his account as far back as July 2023 but could not locate his alt-accounts. Thankfully nutildah listed the connection and members can now look back to learn about how they were duped by him.

When people are compulsive liars they do end up winning the trust of others quite easily.

Another name to add to the list.

The plot thickens more. There are already a huge number of potentially associated accounts therefore we could be looking at industrial scale account farming.

In general with common observation yes your have observed it correctly but in my experience all it was not necessary if a user has a certain goal and be honest in their activities. In my experience it's not about living in a poor or economically down countries. It's about users to have lack of experience and proper goal with a good mindset, these people also don't want to study, learn, understand a knowledge and apply everything to improve their personal skills.

Most of the users in the forum want to make quick money, they want it today, even without achieving the first rank. If they would observe the influential members (who are making 10 to 100 times more money only from signature and avatar campaigns than those of general members) and followed their footsteps then they would make better amount of money than they make having a dozen of alternative accounts and abusing different opportunities.

Respect to Nutildah for his exellent judgment for waiting until the loans where fully paid back before posted this! RESPECT. IMO Everyone should follow this path because it will help a lot of lenders to get their money back! 🙏

I'm rather rich in a poor country then poor in a rich country.

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Question to PytagoraZ/komisariatku: How in the hell do you find time and pleasure to running so many accounts and be on this forum? It must been taking hours each day? I have hard to believe it's no other way to get an income that you also can be proud of. "11(?) accounts".  Even I struggle to find time to be active on one account.


.... It's really benefits and make thing much easier to be from a country that have an active local board indeed! But I think is much less fun to get boosted your way up in rankings, so much more joey to farm your journey the real way with struggle/patience/time so your journey get real that will for sure make your self appreciate the task a lot more. That's important isn't it to be a signature campaign IMO.


I have recommend one friend about this forum because he was new into crypto, and the questions I couldn't answer I told him to search for the questions here because it's a lot of high skilled users here.
But as far I know he hasn't posted a single post, he just come in time to time and read about things he want to learn about. other then that? No. But he also got a life with a job, family so no time to spend hours here weekly.

I think this man after getting caught, is now using his alt. Kudos to Nutildah for letting the loan be paid by these two accounts before reporting this post. I'm 100% sure that if Nutildah had posted this at the time when these two users haven't pay the loan, it would have ended up defaulting or not being paid the loan.

Curious... how normal is it in your circle of friends to bought someone a new laptop? Can I be your friend? I have this specific laptop in mind that I've been wanting to have.


Aside from buying someone a new laptop, is it also normal to borrow an unused account? Ok, that one probably quite common if they're from the same circle of multi-acc bounty hunter. But umm... why? Why even bother using her... his [?] account just to submit a content bounty entry? Even when the account is dormant and leave unused, you can just use yours.

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Resorting to providing private information to a trusted member on the forum has been offered from time to time to resolve a dispute. Like always, every case is unique and should be approached on case-by-case basis, but one that can be agreed is that it is a very drastic measure and will be a burden to the user agreed to validating it to prove the submitted data.

On this case, for example, just to let you understand how heavy is the burden and why this is not an ideal method [not to mention that it's kinda against forum's private nature], how do you propose nutildah to know that komisariatku did not just ask someone next to him, or his friend next city [to be sure they will have different IP] to pretend to be PytagoraZ?

Do you also use each other old underwear and toothbrushes by any chance?
With silly statements and stupid pretending when talking to yourself like this you are only digging deeper hole for yourself.
Congrats on ruining your accounts, and I can't wait to see other alt accounts you used for cheating

So far, all people who claim their "nephew" or "friend" owns their accused alt account, are from "poor" countries. It makes sense: a "signature income" makes a much larger share of your total income if your "local" income is much lower.

You have admitted your misdeeds, yet why do you want to say they are not your accounts? You have multiple accounts.
Let's temporarily borrow the account and run it. If the account is not owned, it will no longer be used. But why would you run with that account? These cause reputation problems in the forum.

Apart from these accounts, you have some more multi-accounts. You should not be in this forum and should leave it.

Thank you, @nutildah, for bringing up such a beautiful case.

I've told exactly one person about how members here can potentially get paid for making posts, and this person would have been the only one I know who'd be interested.  But then I explained that in order to make more than a pittance he'd need to rank up and that it isn't exactly easy.  He didn't care either, and as I said it might be different in other countries but the most logical explanation in situations like this is that accounts are connected.  I've seen excuses like the ones given here more than a few times over the years, so.

Still thinking about reevaluating my post history review offer.  It wasn't abused in this case, but I've been getting PMs from members I respect hinting that I ought to just ditch the whole endeavor, and I'm beginning to agree with them.

For me it does because in the past I've been in a few situations where it looked near 1:1 impossible to prove my innocence and it stressed me every minute of the day for a while I had to fight something for 6 months straight where it looked like I was guilty because I was told not to say some confidential information that was shared to only me, only for the bad results to happen the next day. Even with the other person who had this info telling him I had nothing to do it took an extremely long time just for the person who told me to realize the full story because I continued persisting and did everything humanly possible. Because of how long it took I lost pretty much alot of other valuable experiences with the dude including the trust that was built up until I was proven innocent.

Another time I had thousands of dollars hostage for about a week and they had serious coincidental proof of me "exploiting their website to duplicate money" it was getting to the point where I was starting to think I miscounted the money I withdrew/deposited and thought I was guilty for a while. I ended up failing my studying for a little because of it. They only realized I was innocent because I calmed down later that day, reviewed it fully, realized I was innocent and didn't take any "exploited" money from my account, and went to far and beyond lengths almost no one else would go to just to prove it. If it has anything to do with stuff considered important to me being at risk then I'll do anything just to try and get it back.

Other stories, etc. Whatever bits of trust this dude had remaining has just vanished the moment he lied here though. I'm just tired of people acting like they're from the circus over and over trying to act "innocent" expecting people to trust their words while not posting any actual proof against very clear incriminating evidence. Same thing just happens over and over, and it gets dull.

And yeah there will always be another "what if" scenario for almost everything but I'd figure that someone tell him to try something instead of relying on words with no proof as backup. You are right too, this website literally has proven to me all the people here who you think are good and trustworthy only to turn out to do things people would never have believed.

To me it just seems like people here on Bitcointalk fail to learn and have to go say the same NPC wordplay everytime they're caught and exposed and I've only seen one person come clean so far out of the (approximate) 50-100 I've viewed here from older and newer threads. All this because he wanted a few extra dollars per week from campaigns or small rewards from bounties. Didn't mean to make this super long but yeah that is why I'm out here saying all this.
 

Forgot about this rule, I was told about it before and had my posts merged as a result a couple of months back. I'll delete my previous post and edit my previous post to include what I've said. Thank you!

You were told that publishing personal information is unsafe and there is no need. Why do you advise something that makes absolutely no sense? Whoever is on the other side of the screen should not show themselves. The forum adheres to confidentiality.
On the other hand, just imagine that there are a lot of farmers on the forum, and many have received negative tags. Is it possible to believe the evidence of cheaters who bring a friend, mom, and dad, as well as their cat, to a video call, but only one person will remain the true owner?
Don't forget, this is the internet, and we can be anything in the plural.

Better study the forum rules and learn the multi-posting rule.
32. Posting multiple posts

Well it’s more than obvious that the story is unbelievable so far but personally I’d let anyone who is willing to go that far to prove their innocence to just let them do so even if it’s to a far extent. For a situation like this where it’s basically open and shut, providing some strong proof(privately of course) to justify the claims made by him is better on his side than to look like a clown on the forums with his livelihood ruined trying to disprove(with poor evidence and mere words) against an open and shut case with near undeniable proof of the connection. I just simply showed him a better way to help effectively prove his claims (I doubt it too, most of the people on these forums who have been caught try to lie their way out instead of being honest, which would at least make them look like a normal individual)



I wouldn’t have posted that publicly, private is the way to go.

If you look back people have said some unbelievable excuses and have always ended up looking like a bozo while trying to disprove the truth. I appreciate that you’re at least trying here with proof for this situation and not just using words against extremely strong proof, along with the lie you told and other things the community has gathered isn’t helping your case as well.

An image(which can be faked photoshopped whatever) is not the way to go though, but it’s better than absolutely nothing.

If you are innocent and really want to prove it, the only suggestion I can tell you is to keep going with this and not post any sensitive info publicly here. Otherwise honestly it is simply almost impossible to believe your side considering the clear evidence they gathered against you. To everyone here, this story you shown is unbelievable so far. You were literally caught posting on the wrong account, why would you have your “irl friends” log in info? You were also caught lying in this thread too, another huge red flag only furthering thinning the ice on any remaining person who has a glimmer of hope for your words here

I'm not surprised by your answer because nothing will change even though I can prove it with a video call.

I have also admitted my true mistake. So you have every reason to tag me.



 

Nope, I would never condone that sort of thing or ask anybody to participate in it. All the evidence necessary to prove these two accounts are alts can already be found on the forum & its archives. One's personal privacy should never have to be invaded for the purpose of these types of investigations.

komisariatku seems to be telling one lie after another -- just utterly shameless that each lie becomes more ridiculous than the last. I will not be removing these tags.

As much of a privacy ruining decision that is(to one singular trusted person who wont share your face/voice to anyone), its still the only effective way of proving your innocence, especially with all the undeniable proof stacked up brought by everyone here and the "irl" defense being used repeatedly.

It's not exactly like KYC where they straight up ask for your legal ID (which has.. everything)

Video call? it will ruin my privacy and nutildah, it's not that easy guys and I never knew there was such a way because most people don't like kyc and guard their privacy

Ok, I believe you on that. That can help a little since a track record of honesty is good. but that is only a little drop proven compared to everything else here. What Im trying to say is unbelievable is how these are all your irl “friends” including the account that Nutildah is accusing you of being. You could be innocent everywhere else but it wouldn’t really matter at all if you can’t disprove the important key accusations made from this thread.

You need to go out of your way and do what I said in my previous post if you are really innocent, and that includes your “friend” following the advice too. It is your only way to provide definitive proof that you aren’t the person running the other account. And it will prove that you two are different people.

I've mentioned my mistakes in the past and I don't sugarcoat them. In the past, most bounty hunters were cheaters, even bounty managers at that time were also cheaters. The conditions are very different from now, I'm sure nutildah knows those dark times and alt accounts were something that almost everyone had, especially at the end of 2017 and the beginning of 2018. One of the managers that I still remember and is still active today is irfan_pak, he is very thorough in assessing blog campaigns, I am often accepted into his campaigns because I have never plagiarized and my previous base was a blogger so I had no difficulty in writing articles well enough without having to plagiarize.

Alright my bad for failing to know about the older requirements. If I continued stalking people here and not quit for school I would’ve known, I already know most of the prominent members here and a lot of events but somehow I missed out on that. However though there’s so many accounts that it’s basically hella suspicious along with the clear proof provided by nutildah. Sorry man but it’s pretty clear you’re guilty for multiple things and not just the past of using a singular alt.

If you are in the 0.01% chance of innocence then you need some SERIOUS proof. Like provide whatever you can at this point. If he is really your friend, just facecam both of yourselves to a trusted member(Nutildah is trusted) WHILE both of you being logged on, checking IPS too live so you aren’t faking anything. Being real here, no amount of words you post here will save you or convince people to believe you. You need evidence, not just words. And unfortunately the only proof you can provide is all personal IRL information, but it’s still better than nothing and typing stuff that’s most likely untrue and near impossible to believe based on all the evidence found by the community

maftukh is not my account, but she is the one I taught about bounties, he was active for a while. I borrowed the account temporarily because it was never used again by the original owner. You could say it was my alt, but I forgot to log in to the account and only used it briefly

I just found out that razor is a cyberdg alt, he never told me that before. I also don't know if I ever sent eth to a Razor address, but I admit I sent to a cyberdg eth address. You can see that our posting patterns are very different because we are not the same person and I'm not lying about that

It seems that you not only have @tu_kang, you also have another Alt named: @Maftukh, you can see the telegram that you use in Bounty.

1. Maftukh

Proof:

[ Archive ]

Post by: komisariatku

And what you see is another lie from your words between @cyberdg and @razor92, this clearly proves that both of them are Alt, I'm sure you know these two accounts.

[ Archive ]

[ Archive ]

Here proves that your words do not match the evidence here.

I have admitted wrongdoing and ownership of my alt account. Maybe I don't deserve to be forgiven but all the connections I had in 2017/2018. That's when I didn't know anything and I was just a bounty hunter. Beautiful times to remember as well as bad times. I know there are no second chances here

I once taught another college friend to join the forum and even bought him a new laptop at the end of 2017, but when he registered, the merit system came and he failed to increase his account ranking.

I do have several very good IRL friends who I know for more than 30 years and who are members of this forum (they are those who suggested me to come here in the first place) but not even once it cross my mind to sit at their computer when I was at their place and write forum posts and vice versa.

Thing is, basically all those who were caught abusing forum rules via alt accounts claim that those are their friends or family members, and while that may sometime be the case, no one will believe them anymore as this excuse has been used so much.

It all depends on the country of residence and the standard of living. In fact, Indonesia was found to have a lot of farming accounts as well as a lot of selling accounts that were specifically developed for selling. Previously, account sales were overlooked, and they were not always condemned.
During the bounty, many accounts made good money in 2017, and I am sure that this type of income was well discussed with friends. Therefore, you shouldn’t be surprised that, yes, people came here in whole groups.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.23010770


But I am once again convinced that if JollyGood thinks something, it doesn’t seem to him, and he is often right.
Moreover, if Nutildah takes over the search, then cheaters have virtually no chance of getting out.

I've interacted with PytagoraZ several times and am now very disappointed in it. A truly loud appearance on stage, since he declared himself a lot, sometimes ends in scenes of shame.
Modesty is beautiful; PytagoraZ, accept it.

I met him about 4x. and we talked a lot about the forum and I reminded him not to get involved in the discussion on the reputation board.

He opened my laptop several times and opened the forum of course with my account. I have warned him not to comment using my account. he only said once that it was wrong to comment using my account, he didn't tell me anything else. He even wanted to buy my bitcoins from signature payments when he was still a member but I refused because of course it would be dangerous.

He worked in the village government and I contract workers In the sub-district government, at first I didn't know each other until he saw me opening a forum.

However, I'm sure this won't change anything because I already admitted my mistake in 2017/2018 and at that time I was just a bounty hunter who didn't know the forum rules at all.

After being active again last year I started reading the forum rules and now I understand them but I still can't hide my ownership of my alt account in the past because it was recorded on ninjastic.

Maybe I survived from the mass neg trust that occurred the previous year because at that time I was no longer active. I can only apologize for my mistakes in the past and I also lost a lot of money that I got from the bounty campaign due to participating in ico scam and because my eth account was hacked


The conditions in 2017/2018 and now are very different. Bounty campaigns are not as easy as before and are quite promising. I never even read the forum rules at that time because I mostly followed blog campaigns

If you want to search, maybe there were more mistakes I made in the past, maybe there were more than 5 times I participated in the same campaign. I actually wanted to admit my mistakes in the past but I didn't because it would be the same as killing my account sooner than now

The tu_kang account seems to have been hacked because I can't open the account anymore and the last post wasn't the one I posted but I can't do anything because it's just an alt account and reporting the alt account is the same as committing suicide so I chose to forget it and not try to access it again

---

I don't know why it can be connected to 11 accounts but as far as I remember, I rented a house with Asrinur, cyberdg, and another one I forgot the name of the account. as far as I remember I only sent eth to these 3 accounts the rest I don't know unless they have alt accounts which I don't know about. Havi Agasa and Hagz are also people I know but we have different friendship circles

Asrinur decided to quit the forum and decided to sell his account, I know very well when he sold his account because we still communicate frequently. Now we are far apart and they already have their own small families

---

I just looked at the accounts of several members who commented and it turns out they were registered in the year after 2018. In 2017/2018 there were a lot of cheaters, maybe I was one of them and most of us don't know what DT is and what are the forum rules. we only focus on doing bounty tasks. At that time it was really difficult, bro, maybe we cheated but we were also cheated by the ICO project. This is an annoying, complicated, and completely unfavorable condition

But since you are a famous member, perhaps you know the history of that era. It was a good and bad time.

Sigh.

You might be able to make a reasonable case if there was only two accounts involved but 11? All connected via blockchain transactions? Come on man. I'm finding it hard to believe that they're all friends, even if you don't know some of these accounts.

And why are they engaging with an account seller in the first place? You know that this is a frowned-upon activity.

and you've been trying to cheat the campaign from the start with your alt. and you invite the people you call friends to cheat like you did too?
you build a farm of accounts under the pretext of your friends.

I will show you how you have cheated with your alt.

when your account and alt join the Centra campaign in 2017.
[ Archive ]

[ Archive ]

if you are trying to educate your friends about forums. then how do you explain the wrong behavior you committed by cheating on the campaign?
Would you advise your friends to create as many accounts as possible and join one campaign to get more benefits?

But what actually happened? You haven't explained the situation, and frankly, it's unbelievable. Friends with PytagoraZ in real life? Coworkers, classmates, spill it. He used your laptop in a cafe? Why on earth would you let him? Your laptop likely holds more than login credentials - personal stuff, financial data. That would mean that you trusted him to the point of giving him unrestricted access to your digital life? Why?  Then you lied to Shasan about even knowing the guy? Why? When? What big mistake? Details matter.

A believable story needs specifics. You're not giving any, and with your past history of lying when convenient, there's no reason to believe you now.

What do I need to explain? You can find out what the 2017/2018 bounty system is like, there are no merit requirements and everyone can take part in the campaign. In the beginning all projects look good and in the end they all turn out to be scams. Joining a campaign is not as difficult as it is now.

I've explained that I have 1 alt and I admit it. The rest are accounts belonging to my friends and I have tried to invite them to be active again but they failed to get merit and are busy with their own real work.

Now it's very difficult and I admit, especially for those who don't have a particular interest and knowledge so it's very difficult to get people to join. I even failed to encourage my younger brother who is still in college to be active because he never received merit and didn't like discussing things.

If these accounts are all your “friends” explain this.

I have been trying to get many people to join bitcointalk every once in a while for months because I told them it can make them money. Most of them didn’t even bother and only one joined just to hire indians for some illegal project. Absolutely no one cared to make campaign money or talk about the purpose of bitcoin or crypto advice none of that. Literally NO one cared

I used to care too about making money here but lost interest with trying anymore.

Noted. Meaning it's better to keep quiet in real life and not have to tell anyone about forum, bitcoin, campaign, or anything else in the forum. I will remember your words.

My wife doesn't have an account here. Only my college friends who used to share a rented house had it. I guarantee that the connection will only occur in 2017 and 2018.

I actually wanted to say that I have had alts in the past and wanted to apologize on the reputation board but I didn't because that would just be like suicide. Because not all DTs are like you, so please do what you want to do. I just want to continue the discussion and now I don't have to hide like before

No! I strictly separate online activities from IRL activities. That's why I'm not using my real name here.

If I would have a real world connection here, let's say my wife would join, I'd announce it to prevent any accusations in the future. I'm not sure yet if I'd Merit her: even if the posts are worth it, I don't like conflicts of interests.

I lied to shasan because I didn't want to contact pythagoras again.

I honestly admit that my alt account is tu_kang. I don't own anything else, the accounts mentioned above belong to my friends and some I don't know at all.

---

The conditions in 2017 and now are very different. I have admitted that I participated in the same bounty in 2017/2018. Do you know how to flag spam ICO projects? that happens often and we also lose because we are cheated by the Ico project. I still remember the price of Centra fell overnight and many of my friends who followed the ICO lost their funds

But nevermind. nothing has changed. This will only increase your posting quota.

So... can we trust the words that comes from a cheater?




The campaign they joined [BOUNTY][ICO] TerraMiner - The First mining farm in which anyone can invest.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oWq7-pDlH5jN6EzkP3G693VhmJM55GH4u_ApPy--y6Q/edit#gid=49074262

---

Edit:
There's a blog created by tu_kang, in his blog there are few articles using Bahasa, English and Korea. Do you really able to speak Korea or you're just using google translate?


https://medium.com/@tu_kang

BUT YOU JUST SAID THIS:



Remember??

So you were lying to shasan then, or you are lying to all of us now? Which one is it? Because you are definitely a liar one way or the other.

You will not weasel your way out of this one. Better get to work bettering your other alt accounts, the ones I don't know about anyway, because I am definitely tagging the ones I can connect, shortly.

@shasan
Isn't it the same user we talked about a loan asked by komisariatku from me? I see why you have warned me. Thank you a lot.

Both are immediately removed from my campaign now. @Pytagoraz, you won't receive any payment for this current week unless you can convince the community and remove the tag. You both have cheated a contest.

That's what happened. Because he made a big mistake, I decided not to communicate with him anymore and chose never to know him.

You can check it and maybe you will find many accounts connected but in reality I only have the alt tu_kang account, the other accounts are not mine. When I was in college I rented a house with 4 friends who all had accounts on this forum. asrinur, cyberdg, another one forgot the account name. asrinur has sold his account, and cyberdg is still owned by the original owner

Maybe I also participated in some of the same bounty campaigns in 2017, I forget. Since I started to understand the working rules of the forum, I decided to leave my alt account. I know what I explain will have no effect, and you don't need to bother checking it because I've already explained all the truth.

Sorry but this makes no fucking sense at all and I don't believe it for one second. You borrowed his laptop and started posting from his account? What kind of etiquette or relationship is that? Anything but a believable one.

This is definitely the nail in the coffin for your ridiculous story:


Finally, one last thing:


So this guy also accidentally logged into his friend's account too, right? Every time this kind of thing happens, its just a simple case of friends sharing machines and posting under each other's accounts on accidents, right?


I will take a closer look at the komisariatku alt connections next.

Yes, so the most correct ones are those who are silent and never actually promote anything in the real world.

In 2017 there were many collaborations in working on ICO campaigns. some have alt accounts, including me and I've admitted it here. Some of them are just bounty hunters, others start participating in ICOs, and there are also those who suck up ICOs to collect bitcoins. This is what actually happens and not all connected accounts are account farms. They are really a group and if someone has an alt then usually they only have no more than 2 accounts, that's what I know and I know there are 3 bounty hunter groups which now most of them have sold their accounts, maybe I'm the only one who is active

My mistake was meeting Pytagoraz where at that time I didn't want to teach anyone about bitcoin because it would be dangerous for my account

No.  Not a single one, and that's why I find it incredibly hard to believe--especially since this particular forum has had a major problem with account farming, alt accounts abusing campaigns/bounties, and alt accounts contributing to the overall low quality of discussion here.  Let Occam's Razor slice your way through to the truth, no?

On the other hand, I have no idea what communities are like in other countries or if the younger generation (which I am assuming you are a part of) would be more likely to be into bitcoin and tell a friend about bitcointalk.  Still, even as I wrote that sentence the thought that popped into my head was why someone would tell somebody else about this forum--and it'd probably be "Hey, did you know you can get paid to write posts?". 

There's not enough reasonable doubt here IMO, but I'm not tagging any accounts either.

As far as I know, they rarely go online anymore because they can't compete for merit.

In 2017/2018 we often distributed small amounts of eth for transaction fees on ethereum. This is what causes the connection between accounts. But you can see our posting pattern is very different. I admit I have an alt, namely tu_kang, which I created in 2017 too.


It's not account farming, I've admitted that I have an alt. I've seen you often for a long time and you definitely know how the bounty phenomenon forces someone to ask for a little eth for transaction fees.

Don't any of you have IRL friends who join forums or teach neighbors or friends about forums? It's strange that every connection is considered an account farm. except that no one really invites someone to join forums or teaches about bitcoin in the real world

There might be a few alt accounts that might be ranked up if you help but the majority of the people who will rank up aren't alt accounts. So to punish those alt accounts it should not be stopped for those who have a single account.

---

He took a long time to avoid the loss of the lender (me) as there was an active loan to both accounts.
You are correct but they cheated by joining on same contest.

I don't know why I am laughing so hard after looking back at what the drama and Reputation board loving newbie said back then 

It sounded fun and sarcastic back then, but I guess not anymore, ain't that right PytagoraZ? Told you, the attention seeking would haunt you one day, here we are.

I think this took you almost 2 to 3 months to make proper finding haven gone through your explanation I noticed you are correct although I am not good at account finding unlike sis lovesmayfamilis, but from the evidence you provided shows clearly that both account is being operated by one single user. However, multiple account or alt account or merits abuse should only be given a neutral tag instead of negative tag. If could recall correctly from some post over here that speaks about neutral tags but for event cheating then tag is allowed to be given any one caught up.

Even if you do have very different posting patters (which I don't think is the case), that woulnd't help you much, considering the all the evidence stacked against you and him. Hell, he denied in his conversation with shasan even knowing you.

I can certainly understand why you did what you did (the fact that you can make a solid living in Indonesia via signature campaigns), but at least man it up instead trying to make these kind of excuses that doesnt't paint you in favorable light.

Yeah, this happens to me all the time. I go to a cafe, get drunk, and give anyone I meet full access to my laptop to have fun on the internet on my account. It's a common mistake, can happen to anyone

What's wrong with your OPSEC if you discuss a forum related to your finances with that many friends IRL?

Shit like this is why I stopped helping users rank up via the count down to next rank thread. So many farms in there so I realized it's better to avoid the thread altogether and see how they do without the passive beg thread.

Wow.  Just fucking wow.  It amazes me when there are a bunch of "friends" (presumably in real life?) who happen to also be members of a particular forum....and they all get connected as alt accounts.  This is as far as I've gotten in this thread, but you can be damn sure I'm going to read this until it gets locked.

I have noted that PytagoraZ has requested post history reviews from me in the past, but not any of the above accounts that I can remember--but I haven't checked.  This thread is really making me lean toward ditching my offer altogether and going back to giving out merits the old way, while reading random posts.

I have read various stories in which members write various excuses when they are caught cheating with alt accounts, but this belongs to the very top of human stupidity if it is true. Two people meet in a public place, one of them connects to public wi-fi and logs into his BTT account and allows the other to write posts using the same account

Regardless of whether there is any truth in it, everything else that comes to the surface now only pushes you deeper into the hole that you unfortunately dug yourself. What could possibly absolve you of the charges is the possibility of the admin viewing your IP address (in case you did not use VPN/Tor), but also if you were not intelligent enough and use the same IP address for both accounts, it would definitely be the last proof that would end this story.

What do I have to admit? komisariatku and I have very different posting patterns. The only thing that connected me and him were those two posts, and when everything was still fine, I met him several times and he was one of my mentors so I sometimes used his laptop when I met.


So sorry bro and please reply my message

Because I knew this would happen and it would be his fault. I'm not a good person who easily forgets his actions. So I chose not to deal with it.

Well, I guess we always knew there was something fishy with the PytagoraZ account (he was distrusted by at least four DT members shortly after joining the community), and that he isn't who he claimed to be. This only confirms our suspicions. Nice find @nutildah!

@PytagoraZ, your explanation is certainly convenient, but not very convincing and is very difficult to prove. Especially considering you've repeated the same mistake at least twice.

---

That doesn't explain the lie about "never communicating with him in person."

I cut off contact with him and chose not to know him because of the mistakes he made.

What an excellent lie you can tell. You were offline and you had no communication with me. Then I asked komisariatku whether s/he has communication with you or not but s/he has told me no personal contact.

Please be more smart man.

@nutildah one more thing you missed:
They took extensions repeatedly and stopped any repayment at the same time and both repaid almost the same time (less than 24 hours).

You are supporting the same as PytagoraZ if so why you told like below image:

Oh well...

But it didn't happen only once (not that it would make your story more belieavable) as it happened (at least) two times now. And even if it did happen again, why didn't you deleted the whole post since your wrote with the wrong acount instead just editing it?

Anyway, you should have come with the better story or at least admit it instead coming with something as far fetched as this.

I don't know that account, so what should I say? In 2017 I had many friends on campus who joined the forum and we even rented a house together. If you don't believe me, please come to my place and I will meet you with the owner of the account above that I know.

What exactly do you want to convey? has no value at all, like your useless thread that you finally locked and you're angry because I don't agree with your thread. lol

You've got some explaining to do, not just saying that you don't know their accounts or that they're your friend's accounts, the unknown ones I'm the most curious of because if you don't know them then how come they're connected to you? It's not like your address and the unknown addresses interacted without your knowledge after all. Regarding those friends, they're going to be hard to prove that they're really the accounts of your friends, it could be a case where you're letting others use your account to cheat the forum in some way.

asrinur ~ My friend's account and he has sold the account
pentol86 ~ My friend's account and that account were hacked
cyberdg ~ My friend's account and the account are still held by the original owner
razor92 ~ I do not know him
komisariatku ~ me
coklat gurih ~ I do not know him
havi agasa  ~ My friend's account and the account are still held by the original owner
akbarharyadi8 ~ I do not know him
nyupangcoin ~ I do not know him
Hagz ~ My friend's account and the account are still held by the original owner
tu_kang ~ my alt

I see the theatre that PytagoraZ/komisariatku is trying to put on as ridiculous, as if they were two different people. In the end, as so often happens, the first thing we see is only the tip of the iceberg and it would not be surprising if the data that jokers10 has revealed ends up proving more.

I know nothing about PytagoraZ, but komisariatku is a name I remember. Earlier when I was searching for different interconnections between different accounts involved in shady things (like AI usage, campaign cheating, etc), I found that this account is tightly connected with account seller and AI user asrinur (who is surprisingly posting in Indonesian sections also). I didn't have time to finish my investigation, so I'll leave blockchain interconnections here.

asrinur
↔️ 0x86Ad36da59310683CfE8C2c66e798D2e636413fF — proof — archive.org
-> 0xB7C4f1bEc401288D228869a4efa11DeCEB57c5c9
---> 0x5bE8e318c483DA653d951f796AD78cB52dD55e3F pentol86 (Indonesian) — proof — archive.org
---> 0x3921F61051F8A5ff8f92872B17E9b2dB7A2f9867 asrinur
-> 0xC3810547971dA024517516051BB2D32fE3F2B225 cyberdg (Indonesian) — proof — archive.org  razor92 (Indonesian) — proof — archive.org
---> 0x58C3EeA664aC3533536B2C8443b3ddF969Ce061F komisariatku (Indonesian) — proof — archive.org
---> 0xeD912251C5B8862378B33a77BD5fe08dfF4D63ec coklat gurih — proof
---> 0x67CbC1953BbA62dAD8a9Ecf9Ce7c97082FDC45d8 havi agasa (Indonesian) — proof — archive.org
---> 0xa3438804f8EE626BdFc14b2727E9eb5fea04640a komisariatku
---> 0x0e6c84212CdaaAf11932361f00AD8FA83B51DB17 akbarharyadi8 (Indonesian) — proof — archive.org
---> 0x75fBccF6c51d87eE26983820baB12386429B60AC nyupangcoin (Indonesian) — proof
-> 0x5bE8e318c483DA653d951f796AD78cB52dD55e3F pentol86
---> 0x7e6E0c1246e91519676E12051cF72E68D63550c3 Hagz (Indonesian) — proof — archive.org
---> 0x58C3EeA664aC3533536B2C8443b3ddF969Ce061F komisariatku
---> 0x26824863E476e1FBc505F1e4CF2EDaAFAAF8Fa06 tu_kang (Indonesian) — proof — archive.org komisariatku
-> 0xF416bc1684cCcA5d791e0867B8F9041818Cc7FB6
---> 0x5bE8e318c483DA653d951f796AD78cB52dD55e3F pentol86
---> 0xa3438804f8EE626BdFc14b2727E9eb5fea04640a komisariatku

So, there are 11 accounts connected via blockchain:
asrinur
pentol86
cyberdg
razor92
komisariatku
coklat gurih
havi agasa
akbarharyadi8
nyupangcoin
Hagz
tu_kang

Going to be very hard for either of you to dispute this. If it was just merit sharing, it might get overlooked, but cheating contests is never a good idea. Curious to see more of this unfold myself now. Good job @nutildah

Sometimes I wonder why people don't want to give a clarification before they get caught? why they choose to hide it instead of publish it and give the evidence as much as possible? if they afraid with the feedback after they post the clarification, I think they shouldn't need to be fear because they know they're not alts, no?


Hats off for posting this report after they successfully pay off their loans.

I'm so sorry, I'll try to explain to them. I sent you a message, please reply. Sorry because you must be very angry with me

I already suspected that sooner or later this would happen. @pytagoraz, you told me that everything would be fine, it was your fault.

I have no defense in this matter. Please ask everything to Pytagoraz

I had an alt account in the past, but I haven't used it for a long time and even forgot the password for that account

It seems you don't like me because of my comments in your thread : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.63172302

Are you angry because of my comment?

Great job as usual for you, nutildah. For some reason I have PytagoraZ on my ignore list, so I'm not surprised by this revelation that he's a cheater. For some reason I have PytagoraZ on my ignore list, so I'm not surprised by this revelation that he's a cheater. komisariatku is actually a name that doesn't ring a bell.

But very curious about people who have alts to cheat and forget which one they are typing with, I've seen it several times already. In the end they end up getting caught.

I've temporarily removed him from ignore and I see he comes up with the usual excuse: he's my brother/cousin/friend but we're not the same person.

This is my mistake. komisariatku and I come from the same city and we meet occasionally. I used his laptop when I met at the cafe and read many threads there, I didn't realize I was replying using komisariatku account. He scolded me for this, if you want to give a tag, please give it to me and don't give it to komisariatku

That's what actually happened and I apologize to komisariatku for my mistake

Preface:

I waited 2 months to post this but couldn't because both of these accounts had loans with shasan that they kept re-extending. Anyway, now that they are both fully paid, I hope you enjoy this little revelation I had. Its a story about one of the most obnoxious "newbies" in recent history, and who would have guessed it, turns out he wasn't actually a newbie at all.


Well this is funny. Saw this post just now:



which was quickly deleted and replaced with this:


Note that while both komisariatku and PytagoraZ regularly post in the Indonesian board, komisariatku doesn't have a tag from JollyGood whereas Pytagoraz does. So why would komisariatku bother to chime in to the thread, making a comment about JollyGood apropos of nothing? It's simple really. Because he forgot he wasn't logged into the Pytagoraz account at the time.

I now feel dumb for having given Pytagoraz the benefit of the doubt that he was actually a newbie, as he claimed many times before, even going so far as to open a thread titled "I'am a newbie", LOL.


More fraudulent talk about how PytagoraZ is a newbie:




And it was pretty dumb to develop an attitude over how "smart" they were for a "newbie":


These two accounts have also exchanged a few merits in the past:

https://bpip.org/smerit.aspx?from=komisariatku&to=PytagoraZ
https://bpip.org/smerit.aspx?from=PytagoraZ&to=komisariatku


Here's another instance where he forgot he was logged in as komisariatku:

https://ninjastic.space/post/62372680
https://ninjastic.space/post/62372682

Here's more background on the extent he went to claim he was a fast-learning noob in order to get merits, basically:

PytagoraZ's own "Judgment Thread": https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/judgment-thread-for-pytagoraz-by-jollygood-5458785

I'm not sure about being enrolled in the same campaign together, but they have cheated in a few contests together.

Sinbad price prediction contest:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.63018262
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.63047226

BC.Game football contest:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.63650307
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.63678769

I think the contest cheating, exchange of merits, and attempts to coax merits under the pretext that they are a newbie is enough to issue red tags on both accounts.

Both accounts are welcomed to defend themselves in this discussion.