racism defamation law - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

KingScorpio

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Quote from: TwitchySeal on January 16, 2020, 07:03:50 PM

Quote from: KingScorpio on January 16, 2020, 06:43:07 PM

you are speculating

There's nothing wrong with speculating.

Unless you have absolutely all information that could possibly be available (almost never the case, especially when it comes to what a public figure actually thinks), you have two options: speculate || stop thinking about it.

When you say 'Trump is not a racist' you are speculating.

Of course, I'm also speculating that you aren't one of Trumps closest confidants, family members, or Donald Trump himself.

well white people are also speculating on potential racism of nonwhite people.

can't be the case forever that only black people are allowed to defame others or speculate on racism

TwitchySeal

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Quote from: KingScorpio on January 16, 2020, 06:43:07 PM

you are speculating

There's nothing wrong with speculating.

Unless you have absolutely all information that could possibly be available (almost never the case, especially when it comes to what a public figure actually thinks), you have two options: speculate || stop thinking about it.

When you say 'Trump is not a racist' you are speculating.

Of course, I'm also speculating that you aren't one of Trumps closest confidants, family members, or Donald Trump himself.

KingScorpio

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Quote from: TwitchySeal on January 16, 2020, 06:33:33 PM

Quote from: KingScorpio on January 16, 2020, 06:11:46 PM

Quote from: TwitchySeal on January 16, 2020, 05:53:12 PM

Quote from: KingScorpio on January 16, 2020, 05:35:58 PM

Quote from: TwitchySeal on January 16, 2020, 05:24:15 PM

Quote from: KingScorpio on January 16, 2020, 05:19:02 PM

there is something called, innocent till proven guilty

To successfully sue someone for defamation, you need to prove they are guilty of defamation, meaning you have to prove their statement was false.

You can't prove Trump isn't racist, and even if you could, you'd still have to prove that the person calling him racist didn't believe he was racist.

If you think Trumps a racist, it's not defamation to call him a racist.

so why is it then allowed to insult trump to be racist then, if it could be a lie, targeting to destroy him?

shouldn't "racist" then not become an illegal word similar like the "n word"

"n word" isn't illegal. There are no illegal words in America, you can say what you think.

I do agree with you there should be consequences for someone who just makes shit up to hurt someone else's reputation, but I don't think calling someone a racist is a good example of that. There are lots of people that truly believe Trump is a racist, and I think they should be able to say so.

nope trump is not a racist, he is a strict christian capitalist.

I totally respect your opinion on Trump not being a racist. It is just an opinion though, you can't know that he isn't racist. Your perception of him is a combination of what he wants you to see, and what other people want you to see. Unless you've had a personal relationship with him for a long period of time, I don't think you have enough info to conclude he's not racist.

Also, I imagine there are many racists that are also strict Christian Capitalists. To become a member of the KKK, for example, you have to swear to uphold American values and Christian morality.

you are speculating, and with your accusation of him being racist you only defame him, racism defamation has become a big part of american western culture.

if it will not stop many white people will simply stop taking "racism" allegations serious, and will ignore you, and you will even be ignored when you need the attention the most.

TwitchySeal

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Quote from: KingScorpio on January 16, 2020, 06:11:46 PM

Quote from: TwitchySeal on January 16, 2020, 05:53:12 PM

Quote from: KingScorpio on January 16, 2020, 05:35:58 PM

Quote from: TwitchySeal on January 16, 2020, 05:24:15 PM

Quote from: KingScorpio on January 16, 2020, 05:19:02 PM

there is something called, innocent till proven guilty

To successfully sue someone for defamation, you need to prove they are guilty of defamation, meaning you have to prove their statement was false.

You can't prove Trump isn't racist, and even if you could, you'd still have to prove that the person calling him racist didn't believe he was racist.

If you think Trumps a racist, it's not defamation to call him a racist.

so why is it then allowed to insult trump to be racist then, if it could be a lie, targeting to destroy him?

shouldn't "racist" then not become an illegal word similar like the "n word"

"n word" isn't illegal. There are no illegal words in America, you can say what you think.

I do agree with you there should be consequences for someone who just makes shit up to hurt someone else's reputation, but I don't think calling someone a racist is a good example of that. There are lots of people that truly believe Trump is a racist, and I think they should be able to say so.

nope trump is not a racist, he is a strict christian capitalist.

I totally respect your opinion on Trump not being a racist. It is just an opinion though, you can't know that he isn't racist. Your perception of him is a combination of what he wants you to see, and what other people want you to see. Unless you've had a personal relationship with him for a long period of time, I don't think you have enough info to conclude he's not racist.

Also, I imagine there are many racists that are also strict Christian Capitalists. To become a member of the KKK, for example, you have to swear to uphold American values and Christian morality.

iRaMMuS34

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There's one thing that can put this kinda defamation to an end, it's called freedom of speech. Apparently it's in serious danger in today's western world

KingScorpio

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Quote from: TwitchySeal on January 16, 2020, 05:53:12 PM

Quote from: KingScorpio on January 16, 2020, 05:35:58 PM

Quote from: TwitchySeal on January 16, 2020, 05:24:15 PM

Quote from: KingScorpio on January 16, 2020, 05:19:02 PM

there is something called, innocent till proven guilty

To successfully sue someone for defamation, you need to prove they are guilty of defamation, meaning you have to prove their statement was false.

You can't prove Trump isn't racist, and even if you could, you'd still have to prove that the person calling him racist didn't believe he was racist.

If you think Trumps a racist, it's not defamation to call him a racist.

so why is it then allowed to insult trump to be racist then, if it could be a lie, targeting to destroy him?

shouldn't "racist" then not become an illegal word similar like the "n word"

"n word" isn't illegal. There are no illegal words in America, you can say what you think.

I do agree with you there should be consequences for someone who just makes shit up to hurt someone else's reputation, but I don't think calling someone a racist is a good example of that. There are lots of people that truly believe Trump is a racist, and I think they should be able to say so.

nope trump is not a racist, he is a strict christian capitalist.

TwitchySeal

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Quote from: KingScorpio on January 16, 2020, 05:35:58 PM

Quote from: TwitchySeal on January 16, 2020, 05:24:15 PM

Quote from: KingScorpio on January 16, 2020, 05:19:02 PM

there is something called, innocent till proven guilty

To successfully sue someone for defamation, you need to prove they are guilty of defamation, meaning you have to prove their statement was false.

You can't prove Trump isn't racist, and even if you could, you'd still have to prove that the person calling him racist didn't believe he was racist.

If you think Trumps a racist, it's not defamation to call him a racist.

so why is it then allowed to insult trump to be racist then, if it could be a lie, targeting to destroy him?

shouldn't "racist" then not become an illegal word similar like the "n word"

"n word" isn't illegal. There are no illegal words in America, you can say what you think.

I do agree with you there should be consequences for someone who just makes shit up to hurt someone else's reputation, but I don't think calling someone a racist is a good example of that. There are lots of people that truly believe Trump is a racist, and I think they should be able to say so.

KingScorpio

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Activity: 1470

Merit: 325

Quote from: TwitchySeal on January 16, 2020, 05:24:15 PM

Quote from: KingScorpio on January 16, 2020, 05:19:02 PM

there is something called, innocent till proven guilty

To successfully sue someone for defamation, you need to prove they are guilty of defamation, meaning you have to prove their statement was false.

You can't prove Trump isn't racist, and even if you could, you'd still have to prove that the person calling him racist didn't believe he was racist.

If you think Trumps a racist, it's not defamation to call him a racist.

so why is it then allowed to insult trump to be racist then, if it could be a lie, targeting to destroy him?

shouldn't "racist" then not become an illegal word similar like the "n word"

TwitchySeal

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Quote from: KingScorpio on January 16, 2020, 05:19:02 PM

there is something called, innocent till proven guilty

To successfully sue someone for defamation, you need to prove they are guilty of defamation, meaning you have to prove their statement was false.

You can't prove Trump isn't racist, and even if you could, you'd still have to prove that the person calling him racist didn't believe he was racist.

If you think Trumps a racist, it's not defamation to call him a racist.

KingScorpio

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Quote from: TwitchySeal on January 16, 2020, 04:48:37 PM

Quote from: KingScorpio on January 16, 2020, 03:23:21 PM

Quote from: TwitchySeal on January 16, 2020, 03:46:00 AM

Quote from: KingScorpio on January 15, 2020, 08:41:43 PM

Quote from: franky1 on January 15, 2020, 08:08:04 PM

Quote from: KingScorpio on January 15, 2020, 11:53:55 AM

both is defamation, if jow is not a racist he should be able to sue the defamer, because racism accusations have defaming effekt on people.

both are an accusation. the important parts are HOW THE ACCUSATION EFFECTS people
in america they love to put a price on 'mental stress' which makes it easy in america that the harm/loss caused has a financial value.
other countries however think only true financial loss should be valued. eg loss of income, shelter

theaccusation alone is not that unlawful. its the impact that accusation caused.
lying. by itself in public is not a crime. if it was then there would not be a special custom to when in court ned to swear on a bible and commit to a contract of telling the truth or be punished when standing in court.
again if lying by itself was a crime there would be no need for the special perjury condition

using certain words is not a crime in of itself
for instance i as a white man have good friendships with people of other ethnic backgrounds. if i called one of them the N word. well thats just being part of the banter.. yet if i said it to a stranger and said it in a derogatory way that then caused someone negative affect that can be proven as some form of harm/loss. then that can lead to trouble
saying the N word in of itself is not a crime.. who, how, why and what impact it caused. could be a crime

if you accuse someone of being racist in an egalitarian minded society, you can literally destroy his image and career, happened often in germany especially to celebrities and politicians.
if that person is racist, it is not a defamation but if he is not racist, like for example trump, then it is massively defamatory.

You can't prove that anyone isn't a racist though. And even if you could, you'd also have to prove that the person calling someone a racist didn't actually believe they were racist.

At least that's how the law works in America.

so how is it then allowed to defame someone to be racist if it can't be proven? it is clear defamation to use the "r word",
it would be complete against the spirit of martin luther king and nelson mandela that demanded that people are supposed to be judged on their character and not on their skin color.
trump was judged and defamed a racist based on his skin color, by the democrats. that was clearly an abuse of power.

Are we talking the legal definition of defamation (in America), or your opinion of what the legal definition of defamation should be?

western legal traditions are pretty much the same, defaming someone to be a racist, although it has not been proven weather he is racist, is absolutely wrong, and can be highly destructive discriminatory and defaming for that person.

there is something called, innocent till proven guilty, trump was continuously defamed being a racist, although he was just trying to be a president/administer of a piece of land.

TwitchySeal

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Quote from: KingScorpio on January 16, 2020, 03:23:21 PM

Quote from: TwitchySeal on January 16, 2020, 03:46:00 AM

Quote from: KingScorpio on January 15, 2020, 08:41:43 PM

Quote from: franky1 on January 15, 2020, 08:08:04 PM

Quote from: KingScorpio on January 15, 2020, 11:53:55 AM

both is defamation, if jow is not a racist he should be able to sue the defamer, because racism accusations have defaming effekt on people.

both are an accusation. the important parts are HOW THE ACCUSATION EFFECTS people
in america they love to put a price on 'mental stress' which makes it easy in america that the harm/loss caused has a financial value.
other countries however think only true financial loss should be valued. eg loss of income, shelter

theaccusation alone is not that unlawful. its the impact that accusation caused.
lying. by itself in public is not a crime. if it was then there would not be a special custom to when in court ned to swear on a bible and commit to a contract of telling the truth or be punished when standing in court.
again if lying by itself was a crime there would be no need for the special perjury condition

using certain words is not a crime in of itself
for instance i as a white man have good friendships with people of other ethnic backgrounds. if i called one of them the N word. well thats just being part of the banter.. yet if i said it to a stranger and said it in a derogatory way that then caused someone negative affect that can be proven as some form of harm/loss. then that can lead to trouble
saying the N word in of itself is not a crime.. who, how, why and what impact it caused. could be a crime

if you accuse someone of being racist in an egalitarian minded society, you can literally destroy his image and career, happened often in germany especially to celebrities and politicians.
if that person is racist, it is not a defamation but if he is not racist, like for example trump, then it is massively defamatory.

You can't prove that anyone isn't a racist though. And even if you could, you'd also have to prove that the person calling someone a racist didn't actually believe they were racist.

At least that's how the law works in America.

so how is it then allowed to defame someone to be racist if it can't be proven? it is clear defamation to use the "r word",
it would be complete against the spirit of martin luther king and nelson mandela that demanded that people are supposed to be judged on their character and not on their skin color.
trump was judged and defamed a racist based on his skin color, by the democrats. that was clearly an abuse of power.

Are we talking the legal definition of defamation (in America), or your opinion of what the legal definition of defamation should be?

KingScorpio

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Quote from: TwitchySeal on January 16, 2020, 03:46:00 AM

Quote from: KingScorpio on January 15, 2020, 08:41:43 PM

Quote from: franky1 on January 15, 2020, 08:08:04 PM

Quote from: KingScorpio on January 15, 2020, 11:53:55 AM

both is defamation, if jow is not a racist he should be able to sue the defamer, because racism accusations have defaming effekt on people.

both are an accusation. the important parts are HOW THE ACCUSATION EFFECTS people
in america they love to put a price on 'mental stress' which makes it easy in america that the harm/loss caused has a financial value.
other countries however think only true financial loss should be valued. eg loss of income, shelter

theaccusation alone is not that unlawful. its the impact that accusation caused.
lying. by itself in public is not a crime. if it was then there would not be a special custom to when in court ned to swear on a bible and commit to a contract of telling the truth or be punished when standing in court.
again if lying by itself was a crime there would be no need for the special perjury condition

using certain words is not a crime in of itself
for instance i as a white man have good friendships with people of other ethnic backgrounds. if i called one of them the N word. well thats just being part of the banter.. yet if i said it to a stranger and said it in a derogatory way that then caused someone negative affect that can be proven as some form of harm/loss. then that can lead to trouble
saying the N word in of itself is not a crime.. who, how, why and what impact it caused. could be a crime

if you accuse someone of being racist in an egalitarian minded society, you can literally destroy his image and career, happened often in germany especially to celebrities and politicians.
if that person is racist, it is not a defamation but if he is not racist, like for example trump, then it is massively defamatory.

You can't prove that anyone isn't a racist though. And even if you could, you'd also have to prove that the person calling someone a racist didn't actually believe they were racist.

At least that's how the law works in America.

so how is it then allowed to defame someone to be racist if it can't be proven? it is clear defamation to use the "r word",
it would be complete against the spirit of martin luther king and nelson mandela that demanded that people are supposed to be judged on their character and not on their skin color.
trump was judged and defamed a racist based on his skin color, by the democrats. that was clearly an abuse of power.

TwitchySeal

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Quote from: KingScorpio on January 15, 2020, 08:41:43 PM

Quote from: franky1 on January 15, 2020, 08:08:04 PM

Quote from: KingScorpio on January 15, 2020, 11:53:55 AM

both is defamation, if jow is not a racist he should be able to sue the defamer, because racism accusations have defaming effekt on people.

both are an accusation. the important parts are HOW THE ACCUSATION EFFECTS people
in america they love to put a price on 'mental stress' which makes it easy in america that the harm/loss caused has a financial value.
other countries however think only true financial loss should be valued. eg loss of income, shelter

theaccusation alone is not that unlawful. its the impact that accusation caused.
lying. by itself in public is not a crime. if it was then there would not be a special custom to when in court ned to swear on a bible and commit to a contract of telling the truth or be punished when standing in court.
again if lying by itself was a crime there would be no need for the special perjury condition

using certain words is not a crime in of itself
for instance i as a white man have good friendships with people of other ethnic backgrounds. if i called one of them the N word. well thats just being part of the banter.. yet if i said it to a stranger and said it in a derogatory way that then caused someone negative affect that can be proven as some form of harm/loss. then that can lead to trouble
saying the N word in of itself is not a crime.. who, how, why and what impact it caused. could be a crime

if you accuse someone of being racist in an egalitarian minded society, you can literally destroy his image and career, happened often in germany especially to celebrities and politicians.
if that person is racist, it is not a defamation but if he is not racist, like for example trump, then it is massively defamatory.

You can't prove that anyone isn't a racist though. And even if you could, you'd also have to prove that the person calling someone a racist didn't actually believe they were racist.

At least that's how the law works in America.

franky1

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Quote from: inanilujimi on January 15, 2020, 09:19:55 PM

Sometimes the media does not present the news but instead confuse the atmosphere.
Small problems should be brought up to make it look attractive to air. Ironic indeed but that's a fact that is happening now.

thats why its called media now and not news.
news had some integrity and some editorial control of what was presented.
media however is just about entertaining and clickbait

inanilujimi

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Sometimes the media does not present the news but instead confuse the atmosphere.
Small problems should be brought up to make it look attractive to air. Ironic indeed but that's a fact that is happening now.

franky1

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Quote from: KingScorpio on January 15, 2020, 08:41:43 PM

Quote from: franky1 on January 15, 2020, 08:08:04 PM

Quote from: KingScorpio on January 15, 2020, 11:53:55 AM

both is defamation, if jow is not a racist he should be able to sue the defamer, because racism accusations have defaming effekt on people.

both are an accusation. the important parts are HOW THE ACCUSATION EFFECTS people
in america they love to put a price on 'mental stress' which makes it easy in america that the harm/loss caused has a financial value.
other countries however think only true financial loss should be valued. eg loss of income, shelter

theaccusation alone is not that unlawful. its the impact that accusation caused.
lying. by itself in public is not a crime. if it was then there would not be a special custom to when in court ned to swear on a bible and commit to a contract of telling the truth or be punished when standing in court.
again if lying by itself was a crime there would be no need for the special perjury condition

using certain words is not a crime in of itself
for instance i as a white man have good friendships with people of other ethnic backgrounds. if i called one of them the N word. well thats just being part of the banter.. yet if i said it to a stranger and said it in a derogatory way that then caused someone negative affect that can be proven as some form of harm/loss. then that can lead to trouble
saying the N word in of itself is not a crime.. who, how, why and what impact it caused. could be a crime

if you accuse someone of being racist in an egalitarian minded society, you can literally destroy his image and career, happened often in germany especially to celebrities and politicians.
if that person is racist, it is not a defamation but if he is not racist, like for example trump, then it is massively defamatory.

if there is no harm caused. then it is just a lie.. inwhich a retraction/correction should be made. if there is harm then costs can be reimbursed.

has trump lost his job or felt a change in his income due to accusations..
has media incurred any substantial loss due to lies.

a lie in of itself is not a crime

KingScorpio

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Quote from: franky1 on January 15, 2020, 08:08:04 PM

Quote from: KingScorpio on January 15, 2020, 11:53:55 AM

both is defamation, if jow is not a racist he should be able to sue the defamer, because racism accusations have defaming effekt on people.

both are an accusation. the important parts are HOW THE ACCUSATION EFFECTS people
in america they love to put a price on 'mental stress' which makes it easy in america that the harm/loss caused has a financial value.
other countries however think only true financial loss should be valued. eg loss of income, shelter

theaccusation alone is not that unlawful. its the impact that accusation caused.
lying. by itself in public is not a crime. if it was then there would not be a special custom to when in court ned to swear on a bible and commit to a contract of telling the truth or be punished when standing in court.
again if lying by itself was a crime there would be no need for the special perjury condition

using certain words is not a crime in of itself
for instance i as a white man have good friendships with people of other ethnic backgrounds. if i called one of them the N word. well thats just being part of the banter.. yet if i said it to a stranger and said it in a derogatory way that then caused someone negative affect that can be proven as some form of harm/loss. then that can lead to trouble
saying the N word in of itself is not a crime.. who, how, why and what impact it caused. could be a crime

if you accuse someone of being racist in an egalitarian minded society, you can literally destroy his image and career, happened often in germany especially to celebrities and politicians.
if that person is racist, it is not a defamation but if he is not racist, like for example trump, then it is massively defamatory.

franky1

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Activity: 4410

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Quote from: KingScorpio on January 15, 2020, 11:53:55 AM

both is defamation, if jow is not a racist he should be able to sue the defamer, because racism accusations have defaming effekt on people.

both are an accusation. the important parts are HOW THE ACCUSATION EFFECTS people
in america they love to put a price on 'mental stress' which makes it easy in america that the harm/loss caused has a financial value.
other countries however think only true financial loss should be valued. eg loss of income, shelter

theaccusation alone is not that unlawful. its the impact that accusation caused.
lying. by itself in public is not a crime. if it was then there would not be a special custom to when in court ned to swear on a bible and commit to a contract of telling the truth or be punished when standing in court.
again if lying by itself was a crime there would be no need for the special perjury condition

using certain words is not a crime in of itself
for instance i as a white man have good friendships with people of other ethnic backgrounds. if i called one of them the N word. well thats just being part of the banter.. yet if i said it to a stranger and said it in a derogatory way that then caused someone negative affect that can be proven as some form of harm/loss. then that can lead to trouble
saying the N word in of itself is not a crime.. who, how, why and what impact it caused. could be a crime

AbelBaricStevenson

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What about you call a KKK as not racist, and it get his friends suspicious? This lead to his house burned down? Who will be the sued one on that case? I think don't mention it at all you may get sued.

KingScorpio

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Quote from: TwitchySeal on January 15, 2020, 04:10:24 AM

You have to prove that a false statement about someone is actually false.

It's impossible to prove someone is or is not a racist.

"Joe is a KKK member, he is in charge of bringing bagels and coffee to the weekly meetings, and burns a cross in his yard every year on July 4th" <=== defamation
"Joe is a racist" <=== nope

both is defamation, if jow is not a racist he should be able to sue the defamer, because racism accusations have defaming effekt on people.

regards

Topic: racism defamation law - page 2. (Read 602 times)