Topic: Rack Style Mining (AntRack) - page 2. (Read 694 times)

Maybe it will come unloaded and they will start selling hash boards sepertly? makes more sense no?

I would also be interested to try it, just for the sake of it, my power rate and business model don't justify buying such efficient equipment but if the price isn't crazy high, why not? also, one thing to notice is that they will probably be shipped by sea as these are going to be heavy and large in size, so air-freight will unlikely be an option so expect a delay of 1-2 months.

I would buy one if

no trump tax

price is right.

Pretend it has all s19 pro boards

and that it can do 1.5 ph

that would be at least 40k

not sure I want to spend 40k in gear in one shot.

I am not against your theory, I find it perfectly thought of, the issue is the small details that actually matter, while this rack does have so many "money-saving" advantages, it's the initial cost is the "be all end all".

Let me point out the fact that at least 90% of the miner's value is the hash board and power supply, so by not having to buy a new miner you aren't really saving a lot, just a few dollars worth of steel.

Also, the idea of swapping isn't something exclusive to the rack design, some company made hash boards that you could insert in your S9 and it becomes incredibly more efficient, yes you have to power the miner off while doing that and the firmware is different but it's very cost-effective, and given that you will only need to do this once in a blue moon then spending an hour in replacing 100 hash boards in air-cooled gear rather than 15 mins in the water-cooled rack isn't that much of a difference.

Replacing whole miners also isn't an issue if the economic incentives are there, so it really as I said in the begging of this post, it all comes down to HOW MUCH are they going to sell the Antrack for and how many hash boards can it handle, after that we can do the math.

okay I need to talk about gpu mining ⛏ but not because of altcoins.

A mobo
a cpu
a psu
cooling

multiple slots for gpus.

I have old mobos running new cards.

mobos from 2015 running 2020 cards.

So you are correct about swap in newer gear.

mikeywith is correct that a 1-2 cent guy mines older gear.

I could see a 4-6 cent guy in the usa 🇺🇸 shipping his 5nm gear used to a guy in china once 4nm gear comes out.

some of my mobos had

amd 480
amd 580
amd vega
amd 5700 xt

and if and when I get them

amd 6800 xt

the key is  don’t max your clocks 🕰

I had

nvidia 1000 series
nvidia 1600 series
nvidia 2000 series
nvidia 3000 series

all run on the same mobo.

If we get a rack we have three phase

if they start with 7nm
then 5nm
then 3nm
then 1nm

we could get close to 10 years from a rack.

Time will tell.

but the module upgrade and price improvements of never having to buy a complete machine again..just cards or modules from 5nm now to 1nm and all hot swappable and less space and water-cooled and mix/match

etc etc etc...if people move at large data halls 1/2 way around the world for a 2c kWh electric improvement...that would correspond to that kinda savings IMHO at least for all the next equipment of a big data miner guy

going to this format for any expansion.. too much in the way of hidden profits and upgrade to not do so I parsed out from all the crypto algos available from 5nm to 1nm say with a calc of 3=5 years averaged out in the

future. Also probably only need water cooling and ant racks about 1/4 of the space of traditional miner setups and cooling issues. again, too many things that save money combined for this not to be how everyone will do

their pow machines in the future anyway, you can see if I'm right or not 2-3 years from now from this post but that is my view now...combined with all the above little bit by bit advantages this is 'huge' indeed even if

you are right for the time being but for 'future' ASIC pow design this is set in stone IMHO for all mnfg's IMHO. chump or champ we will see in a couple of years.

be aware, however, this pans out Bitmain will mine them 3 months to drive difficulty up before letting them out the door in their own data halls ..and probably with more than one algo..,tis how Bitmain rolls don't ya

know! Bitmain "Evil Never Rests" (tm Bitmain)

Brad

I highly doubt the Chinese miners will be buying this anytime soon, now based on the assumption (which is a fact as of now) old gears still make a fortune while being so cheap, if you have the power cost advantage you will have to fully utilize it, I am certain that the prices of these racks will be super expensive and very unattractive, there is no way that this can compete with the regular air-cooled miners.

With that being said, since many miners end up losing money by making uniformed decisions, we can't tell for sure how things are going to unfold, there is a chance that 2021 could very much be a crazy bull year taking BTC prices to levels that make manufacturing less efficient but cheap gears more profitable, I mean a gear like T17 now makes almost $6 a day which is much more than it made when it was the most efficient gear, when mining is "over profitable" miners look for cheap gears rather than efficient once.

As I said in my post above..from an economy of scale situation...big miners in China will just kill on this. No Tariff. 2c-4c kWh electric. Less space (water-cooled). Hot swapping would allow you to mix and match pow algo

modules by day..in other words you could mix-match 5mh (say they are older) BTC modules (or hell they could be cards within a module) and say newer 4nm ETH or someday etc modules with hot swapping by the

day/couple days/week vs profitability. Bitmain will of course mine the hell out of any POW (you pick BTC/ETH/LTC) or whatever to the max 3 months ahead of pre-order sales of such with a release of 3 months after that .

...tis, how they roll...

I suspect the price will be attractive (like plug and play big boy toys...antboxes) to huge big miners in china etc...will pretty much IMHO be the death bell for midsized or small data halls for the rest of the world, Too

much capital to invest to get these up...only maybe big data halls play toys. Again, I think if you want to toss around $50k for a fully built antrack of your configuration not counting the building and water-cooling

setups

you will kill in china on these..in say texas at 4-6c kWh..meh...not sure how you would migrate if you already got on the s19 bandwagon but sure offers a lot more profit options vs stand-alone units on top of 2-4c kWh

for the China Miners vs the rest of the world. Bitmain: We Do Evil Well! (tm Bitmain)

anyway, re-looked above, most of you have seen Bitmain antics 2x to 3x along these lines before. I also will bet my own $$$ again, that the antrack concept will be where ALL pow miner makers go now...including

water-cooling etc, it just makes to much sense to get the big dollar folk to play. Also, as Bitmain also states...works in nicely with there 'supposed' everyone cloud mining dream you can buy into in the future (not) but

that is the hopem there they are pushing also besides above antrack. The data hall that spent 16 million in Texas for s19s must be kicking themselves (unless they are getting them sooner than January 2021 pre-

orders) https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitmain-inks-18m-bitcoin-mining-rig-sale-with-riot-blockchain. Anyway, they are in North America, again I think Texas.

Brad

In the pics I see 4 units in a rack with 4 PSU's per unit and 12 boards.

Lets assume boards are comparable to the S19 Pro -> 37 TH/s at 1050 watts each.
444 TH/s and 12,6 kW
total rack about 1.78 PH/s at 50 kW per rack
50kW is already achieved in HPC clusters with watercooling, so that sounds plausible...

Sounds great, hopefully the cost is acceptable

Myself, in my fantasy land of rainbows/unicorn farts/faries...in which I 'imagine' I'm a Bitcoin Billionaire..and how I'd approach mining ..the concept of AntRack would give me a BTC 'woody' indeed. Not Bitmain, per say, I'm not a fan, but the AntRack 'concept'. Indeed, I can see the brakes being put on 'right now' on any 'expansion' or adding another room or building to folks with big data halls if they are paying attention to the Bitmain announcement. Thus, right now, if I had to expand my mega data hall at 2c kWh or whatever...I'd 'on the get-go' add the permits and connections outlined by the Bitmain protocol above ...and water-cooling....which I was told is a whole nother permit process and hoops to jump through to get in place. But IF I had not already started on the new room/building or expansion..being the 'fantasy' btc billionaire I am..you could add these changes to your 'expanded' vision to incorporate Antiminer type protocols, easy enough. (I expect ALL major ASIC makers to adopt this idea of plug and play). So, being 'smart' BTC Billionaire (fantasy) and all...I get the units...put in place...they are 'upgradeable' from 5nm to 1nm supposedly...you can hot-swap...I 'assume' you could hot-swap different modules for different ASIC pow algos like ETH, LTC, BTC all in the same rack...etc, etc.

Yeah, this makes too much sense, especially if we are looking at a time line of Spring 2021 at best for this stuff and always remember Bitmain will run AntRacks in mass on their own data halls for 3 months to blow up difficulty before they go out the door to anyone else. So plenty of time to 'tweak' any big player, expansion plans as a big miner on any buildings or whatever...even if the concept fails and I don't use such Antrack connections...a small 'tweak' and plenty of time, with current plans, before 2021, to setup just in caese or likely, IMHO, that this would be the route a big miner would take. How I see this anyway, if I had the means to do so! (Satoshi contact me ...do I have a 'deal' for you! )

Alas, I would have been a fine/beneovolent/happy-go lucky/bitcoin billionaire ruler of all you minions on bitcointalk...alas....not to be!

Brad

Looks to me like the end of a lot of small mining ops.

It is 3 phase power which is more industrial than 240.
I wish specs got released.

10 k-watts and 500th each?

or 18 k-watts and 1 ph each?

Well, from what I can tell...if this is a 'big boy' data hall toy...and you are in China...at 2c to 4c kWh depending on the season....(and say you have the added advantage of being Bitmain and all this hitting your data halls for 3-4 months before everyone else. (whew!) Add to the fact that you can 'hot swap' our modules from 5nm down to 1nm as available...and I'd assume costs are cut by just this module swap...add to the fact you can be first in line for any 5nm to 4nm improvments on whatever algo/flavor crypto you want to put in this beast and indeed....a variety of crypto modules..say BTC at 4nm...eth at 5nm etc etc. Always having the 'cutting edge' of latest to pop in and or move at the same time ...rotating them through ..by the time the 5nm of whatever is no longer making you money at  your big boy data hall 2c kWh or whatever..you sell them to smaller minions ..in say 3-4 box racks...used...as you have made your $$$ and moved on. there is so much eff and ways to tweak such a setup with cheap electric if you are bitmain to your own uses...and mix match and get stuff like from 4nm online or lower faster...with this all in place it is 'dizzying' how much money they are gonna make.

But as to mid/size small data halls...er that boat has probably sailed by the end of 2021 with above enhancements assuming my guesses above have any validity (dubious..but still). indeed could be looking at a diff between CPU mining to ASIC mining ..skipping the step like GPU mining stage in between as a comparison of how this could blow the doors off for the big guys..

but don't worry...I 'forsee' that Bitmain will be MORE than happy to give you many 'cloud mining' options instead of all this pesky hardware that only big guys can afford. man...I got to admidt it .... Bitmain: (We Do Evil Well!) (tm Bitmain) Really does apply in this case....the setup seems clean to me and robust enough and expensive enough..that everyone will want to do it..but few will be able to afford such ..this is a ground floor build from the bottom data hall solution. but i you had big BTC/Crypto bucks..it makes as much sense if not more so than my first ASIC in 2013....

terrified pow wise but impressed!

Brad

Well I have 3 phase.  I can do more power this could help my room size issue.

Price
Power per unit
Hash per unit

I need to know.

Must I buy an ant box?

Ja. Canaan's Moose was a nice drop-in block of hash but did nothing to address the PSU and cooling issues.

The Antrack promise PnP replacement/upgrades. The n+1 PSU redundancy is a damn fine move to both increase reliability/serviceability and reduce the need for maxed out single PSU's.

Welp compared to the moose this looks like a better way to move to maximize density and efficiency. Not that I'm worried bitmain would just fall off the map but they need to be transparent about their support life cycle for this.

IMHO liquid cooling is long overdue. Coming from an industrial power systems background I can firmly state that it provides numerous advantages:

  Allows for very high equipment density
  Far quieter
  Far fewer fans to replace and no dust bunnies to remove as they gather and breed on numerous finned heatsinks
  The larger fans on the PSU's normally translate to lower rpm's needed and that generally = longer lifetime
  Far easier to move the heat outside via plumbing vs massive fans/blowers & air ducts

When properly done liquid cooling requires very little maintenance, just a filter and biocide to keep the water clean, if in an area that gets below freezing then glycol is also needed. Outdoor dry cooling towers are extremely reliable with near-zero maint required. Wet towers - ja they need a bit more monitoring but still very very reliable. With BM now offering 1-year warranties to me it make sense that they start getting rid of potential failure points such as the known heatsink misalignment/touching issues and the fans.

As for 1nm tech ROFL! Perhaps try asking in a few more years. There are better approaches to improving performance that are starting to come online that do not require the so far un-manufacturable smaller gate sizes.

Main features:



Source: https://blog.bitmain.com/en/bitmain-releases-rack-style-new-miner-bringing-next-level-computing-power/

This will be water-cooled, plug and play style, I am not sure why they decided to go with the expensive water cooling style, is it because the next 5, 3, and 1nm can't be cooled with the normal air cooling? While this seems like a great idea, I am pretty sure the price will be unbelievably expensive, the maintenance of the water cooling system isn't going to be cheap as well.

The good thing about it is that when you upgrade you don't throw away a whole miner, imagine if you could use the same S9 or even S7 and just have to swap the hashboard for the new once and/or PSU? how much money could one have saved through all these years?

Another point would be how likely are we going to get to that 1nm technology,  how much improvement in terms of efficiency do we expect?

What are your thoughts?