Topic: Rack Style Mining (AntRack) (Read 726 times)

Wow! If I had only known this on my 1st BTC on my 1st day on October 18th, 2013! Price was $150.00 USD that day, at least at the time I looked. I was somewhat sad that day being 'delayed' by 6 or more months of getting an ASIC miner due to a BFL scam/etc. I tried GPU mining but had no skills. I think I made .6 BTC with GPU card..er...maybe.....I think I spent it...I was a clueless newbie and every week BFL said the miners were SOON! (tm BFL) So held off on GPU mining.*duh*

When I started on the forum here or 3 days after I started on the forum here the thread Wall Observer which was started on April 16th, 2013. I love looking at that first post on WO to this day that stated that Bitcoin was $67.43 USD https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wall-observer-btcusd-bitcoin-price-movement-tracking-discussion-178336.

At the heady price of $150 on the 1st day I mined above, so sure I'd missed the 'boat' and Bitcoin was gonna crash back down to $50.00 USD soon! Annoyed at my 'late start' to mining after lurking on Bitcointalk from April 13th, 2013....so much wasted time..so far behind! Also annoyed and scared self having to use a paper clip on the PSU to boot the KNC Jupiter BTC Miner, because KNC was too frigging cheap to add a frigging SWITCH on the unit. Yep was one generally freaked-out newbie that day wondering about this whole kool-aid drinking BTC idea! I guess my doubts have been cleared up since then, er maybe? Huh? May the next 10 years see the same price rise and adoption speed or better than when I flicked the KNC on.

But damn, really, I mean really, $4,350,000.00 USD without the containers and setup and tariff and shipping and import fees and 2nd pump and plumber and electrician and permits, etc, etc. We'd then be talking at least a cool $500,000.00 USD for 1 Bitcoin a day now! Holy crap!

Philipma1957! (tm "He does math well!")

edit: Philipma1957 you should start a new thread on this. Using the popular Bitcoin ASIC miner of the particular historical year from say CPU's on up till now and say above future or if equipment is announced like the AntRack within the year in question. It would be one shocking graph/chart/list or whatever indeed...and only will look more and more impossible as time goes on!

Brad

viabtc says 1 th gives 0.00000697 btc.

so :
14.5th gives 0.000101065 btc a day
145th gives  0.001010650 "
1.45ph gives 0.010106500 "
14.5ph gives 0.101065000 "
145ph. gives 1.010650000 "

so a set of 10 fully loaded containers does the trick

and you burn 3 megawatts an hour if the gear does 30 watts a th.

at 30 dollars a th the setup above = $$$$

30 x 145 x 1000 = 4,350,000.00 USD.

Just as an aside. When I started Bitcoin mining on Oct 18th, 2013. I made 'briefly' 1 Bitcoin a Day. Are my calculations correct, without electricity, that I would have to have like 10 of these at 15ph each to make ONE Bitcoin now? or approximately what is the cost of these again? I think you said someplace on here of $40,000.00  (will re-look)

So to make ONE Bitcoin per day, without figuring electricity and just the equipment, and at retail no tariff or import or shipping fee...I'd be looking at around $400,000.00 of equipment or likely double that for One Bitcoin of profit per day now vs 2013! Damn....anyway ball parky around 1/2 million dollars damn. Damn, the game is rigged since 2013 for this game! Ack!

Feel free to correct me and use more precise math, but you'd think I could find a link for such a thing or real costs in mining equipment to make ONE Bitcoin a day. Anyway, a bit off-topic...but Antrack is the latest and greatest coming out from Bitmain for my calculation purposes here and/or with the above $$$ nailed down with the idea of 1 Bitcoin per day profit...if you are a 'mega-whale' I just gave you a Bitcoin kool-aid inspired reason to blow a lot of money on these beasts!

Hey it worked for me chucking out what I thought was 'big money' for ONE BTC or so per day back in 2013.... let's see if the same logic applies...actually that would only probably work at $100,000 BTC in the next 5-10 years maybe. (All this math, all these $$$, all that math hash...my head hurts...Ack!)

Brad

The 19 series uses a single large heatsink that covers all chips, Microbt M20s and M30s have two heatsinks each covering about half of the chips, also, IIRC the heatsinks are not glued/soldered to the chips, they are attached using some screws, of course, it's more than likely that they put the thermal paste in between.

This one large heatsink instead of one heatsink per chip design looks like it's going to be the future for all miners to come.

I'd really like to get an up-close look at the guts of one of these. Looks like they have one heat exchanger per hashboard instead of individually mounted heatsinks on each asic. That should make reliability an order of magnitude higher than the air-cooled ones. I think repairing them gets way easier too. >50% of replacing an asic on a 17 series miner is messing with those damn heatsinks.

Different scenarios require different set-ups, at times more of less-efficient hashrate makes you more profit than more-efficient but less total hashrate, this is one good thing about custom firmware, using Vnish and a management tool like awoesomeminer you can automate this process, you enter certain variables such as price, difficulty, your power rate and etc, and then the software will handle the efficiency profile based on what's the most profitable at any given time.

If bitmain wants to stop the usage of custom firmware, they should implement this in their new Antrack, at least 3 to 5 power modes should be there, I don't think it's all that difficult for them to implement.

Not that it is needed with prices of coins high.

I believe the S19 pro will do a lot better than these numbers, the stock efficiency for S17 Pro is 39.5 W/T,  the stock values for the S19 pro is 29.5W/T, if Vnish can turn 39.5w to 26w then it should do a lot better in tuning 29.5w to below 20 range, anyway it won't be too long till we find out, I believe in a one to two months Vnish for S19pro should be ready.

If s17pro can do 24-26 watts a th and do 38-39th which it can on vanish

then the s19p may do 22-24 watts a th and do say 80-82th on the next vanish firmware

these racks claim 30-33 watts a th 10 per antbox 15ph

they may down clock to 12 ph with better firmware an pull the said same  22-24 was a th.

That's true phil, but it isn't always a question of efficiency, I don't know how many TH you are getting out of those S17pro when you underclock the life of it, but I am sure the cost per TH at that efficiency is very high, which also means these new S19 boards will do a lot better than the 17 pro once underclocked, but overall this isn't a fair comparison IMO because it isn't just 17 pro vs s19/19 pro, the rack style setup and water cooling is what makes this "special".

The real question now is: How much is it going to cost and whether it will be justifiable to buy the rack over the normal air-cooled S19?

Yeah since it is running 15ph and earning 57000 a month pre power cost built in redundancy for the pump is important.

I think we could run 2 x 9ph = 18 ph  and then run out of power.  Which would mean 2 boxes of 6 racks each.

I wonder if you could run your own pump to 1 rack of 1.5 ph

I still see an issue that issue is 33 watts to a th.

I have the one s17pro and on vanish aftermarket firmware I can do 25 watts a th.
So it is less efficient than aftermarket s17pros and stock s19pros.

Nope, not just a NA thing. I've designed equipment for use in Taiwan, Korea, Germany, Brazil, Mexico & France along with NA and looking at chillers/pumps literature from companies based in said countries, never once have I seen fluid flow spec'ed as weight, only volume over time.

The technical reason is simple: fluids are non-compressible so any specific volume of a given fluid will always be the same mass regardless of the system pressure. (edit: for complete accuracy, yes most fluids do expand/contract slightly depending on temperature but rarely enough to care about when it comes to flow measurements.) Gasses - yeah flow can either be based on volume (in which case because mass rapidly changes depending on pressure, flow will always be stated at a specified pressure) or mass flow rate which takes pressure out of the equation.

Back to main point, 33GPM isn't too bad, actually on par with what a 5kw laser sucks. As for pump reliability, as with many things that mainly depends on how good it is. A decent properly spec'd industrial rated pump should run 24x7 for decades with zero issues.

Personally, just to address the slight chance of pump failure, I'd design the system with redundant twin pumps each throttled down to 50% speed with VFD's (Variable Frequency Drives). 2 reasons: 1st is of course redundancy but 2nd is that power consumption is much lower- for any given amount of horsepower driving fans and pumps each 10% reduction in RPM drops power consumed by almost 20% (within limits of course). If you lose a pump a PLC or smart pressure sensor would speed up the remaining pump to take over until a replacement can be obtained & installed. For the same reasons I would do the same for fans on the radiators as well.

I wouldn't say so, in Serbia we use m³/h for pumps/fans/anything else moving air or water.

I am not sure what's the point of using kg/h but I'd assume it has to be some stupid small amount to be worth using that metric as 1 kg/h equals 0.001 m³/h but then again, why wouldn't you use liters per hour instead of kg/h. (1 kg/h = 1.35 l/h IIRC)

I've heard older people using kg/h while gas companies and everything I noted above is using m³/h nowadays, so maybe kg/h is an old metric that they used before our (read: "my") time.

So down sides are :

1) will need a back up pump
2) seems to be 30-33 watts a th a step back from the s19pros

15ph is earning 15000 x .1267 =1900 usd a day or  57000usd a month.

Perhaps that's just an American thing?, where I live, we use kg/time, water is mass and what you want here is the mass flow rate, so while ton/hour might seem strange to you, it sounds pretty much normal to me  , after all, 1kg of water mass per hour equals 1L per hour, anyway, that is a ton (pun intended) of water to be moved.



There is no back-up pump in the design, a huge SPOF in this, if one decides to go for these, a back-up pump must be installed, someone I know might be getting one of these in Feb, if that happens I will most likely be providing you guys with exclusive videos and images and more details.

9 x 224 = 2000 gallons an hour.

So do we have a pump for 10 racks which recycles at 33 gallons a minute

If the pump dies do all 10 racks go off line?

Or is there a backup pump?

WTF kind of flow spec is 6.9-9 tons per hour??
You talk to any facility services engineer/manager or any industrial cooling company and they will think you are a loon if you use weight to specify flow rate...

Flow is always spec'ed as gallons or liters per sec or min or hr. The only variant I've ever seen was in cu-ft or cu-meters which are still volumetric units. NEVER in my 40+ years in the systems design biz have I seen flow spec'd as weight.

FYI, if you don't mind doing math, 1 ton of (distilled) water = 224 imperial gallons (1.018 m3)

Sorry, just as an aside...I can't flip BTC for equipment anymore at that level of play..I'm out....big boy games (or guys with solar farms whose name I should not mention) can do such...but I mean EVEN if we had BTC/Crypto prices at the same level of risk/reward of say 2017...I just could not pull the trigger on such equipment..at current price of btc/crypto and the equipment investments...even if I had insider cheap kWh in the USA. (by the by what is the best rate in USA 4c kWh?)

There comes a time, when you not only find yourself shocked by the price of BTC/Crypto from when you were a newbie and started...to now..when I'm shocked at the investment of BTC/Crypto into mining/equipmetn units...even if I had a 'legit' return on investment...too old in crypto..I am afraid I can't pull the trigger on this kinda thing anymore....like my newbie days of like the ancient 4 years ago..alas, I miss my 'newbie' BTC/Crypto big brass ones...seems at $18.5K I've become a conservative HODL'er ....ie or no more 'big brass ones' like back in the day. I hope the newbies of today can see this post like 4 years from now and at 100k BTC and realize the same.

Sorry had to post this, in that Philipma1957 at least can 'casually' toss about infrastructure costs for equipment like this..me..on top of $18.5K mining equipment prices...It just has got to the point on both..that from back in the day...it boggles my mind...and can't get my head around such.

I'm out..just reading the above on other's actions and/or contemplations above on getting such.....no matter how good the hardware/return on with using these and mining with a cheap kWh rate...freaks me out and gives me the shudders. Bitcoin mining has now moved from my little Eskimo rowboat to commercial whale mining..so I'm out...Though it is good to reminded on every ATH or close to such or every pump/FOMO and equipment innovation or so...I get this slammed into my head with the above reality. Your OLD, crypto wise, no longer BOLD, crypto wise, so you can just only HODL now, crypto wise!

Time to hang up the mining spurs I'll be on the 'sidelines' in the bleachers waving at the playing field from now on.

Brad

I got you some updates, thanks to the Coindad.

Specs:



More Specs:



The layout:



Hashboard side view:



Swapping in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhuXO8Y2paM

More action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzH3KMPak1w

---

They look dope, but I'l pass.  , what does everyone think about these Antracks now? of course, prices are still unknown but I will update the topic accordingly.

Well a lot depends on the rack price.

I am talking about gpus since it is an easy way to compare.

A good well cooled 8 gpu bare bones rack with good psu's and cooling  is 500-600 bucks.

you can fit 8 x 800 dollar gpu's in it

so 6400 in hashing to 500-600 in rig

a 10 or 12 to one ratio.

If a rack is 4-5k

and to fill with cards is 50k

I could buy a rack and fill it ¼ for 12.5k

then add to it as time goes.

I think we can do 2 racks  and spend 100k to do so.