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Topic: Re: Butterfly Labs CEO 25 Million USD Mail Fraud — A Concise Summary of Evidence - page 39. (Read 146793 times)

legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
I'm beginning to like this guy (short article): http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/no-taxes-or-bureaucracy-in-planned-libertarian-paradise-1588142.html

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The investors registered a trust in Moscow and Costa Rica in January, appointed a trustee - former Soviet diplomat Mikhail Largin - and began planning in earnest. They hope to convince a Third World country to lease them sovereignty over a 100 square miles of land for 50 years.

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The group already has 60 founding members, each of whom put up $5,000 (pounds 3,125) and a recent advertisement in the Economist yielded a flood of letters and faxes. "Some of them have been sending us unsolicited money, which is more than we asked for," said Sonny Vleisides, editor of the Laissez Faire City Times, the newsletter sent to every prospective founder.

"Laissez Faire City"
legendary
Activity: 4690
Merit: 1276
...
I think it's borderline ridiculous to think a scam would first start with the heavy engineering required to develop FPGA's just as a trick to hook us for a larger ASIC run. If you think they started out with the intention to scam, well then I think they've realized they've stumbled onto a "more profitable if legitimate" business. Developing FPGA's is not trivial, nor is the amount of engineering that has gone into BFL's already developed products. ...


Has anyone run the numbers on this?  I've not paid attention to mining gear up 'till this point, though I may when we are into a generation or two of ASIC, but it occurs to me that people can produce reasonably complex gear (i.e., Maple boards or Soekris) for a decent price even doing a fair amount of original hardware work.  If much of the work can be taken from open source, it could be surprisingly cheap and low skill to get some vaguely functional inventory on the street.

hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 564
I think it's borderline ridiculous to think a scam would first start with the heavy engineering required to develop FPGA's just as a trick to hook us for a larger ASIC run. If you think they started out with the intention to scam, well then I think they've realized they've stumbled onto a "more profitable if legitimate" business. Developing FPGA's is not trivial, nor is the amount of engineering that has gone into BFL's already developed products. Not only that, BFL also has competitors- some of whom also are offering pre-orders for ASIC's by the end of the year. A competitor could have at any point scooped BFL by announcing their ASIC's first or developing them earlier
It doesn't require that much heavy engineering; I did a fair bit of work on bitstreams for one or two of the competing boards despite having no prior FPGA development experience whatsoever, and I believe someone else has been building a mining farm out of home-built FPGA boards soldered on a hotplate. The FPGAs that BFL are using are a bit trickier on the board-design side but probably easier on the bitstream-development side, so really it all balances out in the end.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
Inactive

Inaba did confirm, see OP:

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Although this may be cause for concern to some, the fact is that we're a robust company with 22 employees.  One of them has a colorful background in offshore libertarianism.  If I thought there was even the possibility of something unsavory going on within BFL, you can rest assured I would a) not be part of it and b) would let everyone know it.



Heh.  Libertarians.  Speak up.  Is mail fraud scamming old people (admittedly the victims being not so bright) in the Libertarian playbook?  I must have missed that chapter.

donator
Activity: 994
Merit: 1000
Inaba stated that that preorders were not used to fund development and that outside investments (VC, etc) were taken.
Ah. Hmm, there goes that theory I guess! :-)
Unless the "VC" actually means his own savings from a scam...?
A likely theory. It's a good way to launder some money I guess. You take pre-orders, but finance the production with dirty money. This way all the scam money is hidden as working capital and eventually extracted as clean profits.
legendary
Activity: 1470
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Hello!
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
asic is a codename for A Scam Is Coming?

Awesome Scam In Cognito! Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1002
Hello!
asic is a codename for A Scam Is Coming?
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
Wow is it possible that GigaVPS could get scammed twice? Once by pirate and once by BFL?

sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Keep it Simple. Every Bit Matters.
The drama continues...

anyone from BFL dare to confirm or deny?

Inaba did confirm, see OP:

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Although this may be cause for concern to some, the fact is that we're a robust company with 22 employees.  One of them has a colorful background in offshore libertarianism.  If I thought there was even the possibility of something unsavory going on within BFL, you can rest assured I would a) not be part of it and b) would let everyone know it.


That is worrying.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
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the CEO of bfl has prooved he delivers (see their fpgas).
Are you seriously comparing the difficulty of delivering a fpga to the one of delivering an asic???
For the FPGA you just need to make a bitstream.
For the ASIC...you need to design the chip from scratch, you need to invest millions to make the masks and actually start producing it. Good luck.

no i dont compare the difficulty of producing asics to fpgas.
but if he wanted to run i suspect he had did it with their fpga preorders.

I suppose just like PussyAt30 ran right? Oh wait...lol he's still "around"  Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1002
People keep saying running with the pre-order money is the big jackpot scam for multiple millions.  First of all, the pre-orders total about 1.1-1.9 million approximately.  Secondly, BFL could hold the pre-orders for 1 month and mine with all the card (okay that'd take A LOT of computers but stick with me Tongue) and make a bare minimum of $1,392,261.94 and that's adjusted for the difficulty increase it would cause (about 2x) but not the exchange price drop off of selling that many BTC.  That's where the real money could be made.  Oh and BTW that route isn't illegal.  Running away with preorder money is.  Thus the basis for my other post about how they're definitely mining with them or will be.

And since someone will ask, 7000 pre-orders, 100% jalapenos assumed (obviously not true), 3,500 MH/s * 7000 = 24,500 GH/s. Deepbit says that's 7743.5 BC per day (DROOL!). That MH/s = approx difficulty increase of 2x since the whole system is 22,000 GH/s atm so 3871.75 BTC/day would be expected * 30.5 days (because 30.5 * 12 months is 366 days, 1 off from 365 so it's commonly a 1 month interval amount used in statistics) = 118088.375 BTC in the month.  The last price I remember on MTGox was $11.79 so $1,392,261.94.  7000 Jalapenos will net them $1,043,000.  Mining for 1 month with all of them would profit them $1.39 mil not counting electricity and computer purchases and hubs and networking equipment.

Or, since they have 22 pre-orders for those top level rigs that do 1000 GH/s, they could just run all 22 and get approximately $1.2 million lol.  That's easier than 7000 Jalapenos Tongue

I agree. I don't think they are scamming. But you don't know what their pre-order total is. You've estimated the floor. You either missed this part of the order thread:
Total Orders (By last seen)       6578  
Orders Tracked     207
Or you think 50% of people are posting their orders...even without the order numbers that seems extremely unlikely. If we take the reports as a random sample and estimate based on the total order numbers we get ~3%. So a rough estimate would be something like 30 million USD.

Your supposition that they will mine with them is almost as unlikely as them running with the money. The smartest, most profitable path would be to not mine, but to ship them out and let the difficulty go up more slowly as they arrive. As people start reporting they are actually receiving their rigs, even more orders will pile in before the difficulty makes the break-even time look undesirable, by people who do math without considering the rate  of difficulty increases (a very common mistake among people who are new to mining, and it looks like you made the same mistake above.)
If they raise the difficulty astronomically themselves before shipping, people will be less likely to place these orders.
legendary
Activity: 1458
Merit: 1006
More damning excerpts from:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/106417808/Affidavit-for-Extradition-Warrant

Quoted from the OCR'd version posted here by blakdawg. Thanks blackdawg!  Smiley

I'll probably be moving select juicy bits from the following excerpts into OP, once I have time to process it.
Could be a couple of days. This is pretty disgusting stuff.


Exhibit D — Sworn affidavit of IRS Special Agent Timothy Nugent:


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Victim Statements

8. Clarence Enge

Amy Von Freyman stated that her grandfather, Clarence Enge, who is in his 80s, received letters via the United States mail from companies soliciting his participation in foreign lotteries.
Since 1997, Enge had sent $600-$1200/month to such companies, including to OLD AMSTERDAM and SHAMROCK AGENCY. In order to continue his participation he refinanced his home.

9. Paul Greven

A letter addressed to Greven stating it is an "Official Announcement of Winning Tickets in the 2003 Irish Sweepstake Triple Crown." The  letterhead indicated it was from "The Shamrock Agency" and claimed it had been a "Certified Service since 1959." The letter stated: "Millionaires by the score! We have just finished round one of the verification process of the Triple Crown 118 major Jackpot winning tickets. Enclosed is a list of the winning numbers. Congratulations to the jackpot winners.. . ." The letter informed Greven to be patient for "round 2 of the winning verification process" but encouraged him not to "... delay in getting the 'Jump' on next year's Triple Crown millions (order form enclosed)." It also stated that the Triple Crown was unlike any other lottery because players could be sure there is no ". . . 'Inside corruption' or 'secret trick' . . . ." The letter was signed by "Sir William Winfield, Northup Manor, Shannon Ireland."

10. Paul Wood

When interviewed, Paul Wood stated that he had been involved with WORLD EXPERT for about five years. He had played lotteries with them and obtained a form of life insurance from WORLD EXPERT. Woods stated the insurance from WORLD EXPERT FUND was known as the "Gold Reserve Fund." For this he sent $29 per month to the Netherlands to pay for retirement/life insurance. Statements he had received showed that he had approximately $4,000 in his account.




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13.   In furtherance of the scheme to defraud, the following mailings, among many others, were sent by the companies run by SONNY VLEISIDES and his co-schemers, to victims of the scheme:


Proceeds to describe the fraudulent letters; [ a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k ]

The letters are clearly fraudulent, like some snail mail 419 scam, that no non-senile person should fall for. The exhibits are dating from the years 2002 to 2006.



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18. When interviewed, PJ and Michael Swink stated the following:

a.   PJ Swink stated that her company, Western Internet, worked for Sonny VLEISIDES. The work PJ Swink did for VLEISIDES included printing as well as stuffing and mailing envelopes. VLEISIDES gave her instructions regarding the preparing, printing, and mailing of lottery solicitations. Western Internet had done this work for VLEISIDES, or his father, "Rex Rogers," since 1993. Since 2000, all of the work PJ Swink had done for VLEiSIDES and "Rex Rogers" had been related to the lottery.

b.   PJ Swink was unaware of the exact name of VLEISIDES' company, because it has had multiple names over the years. Based on conversations and other communications with VLEISIDES over the years, she believed "The Shamrock Agency" and "World Expert" were companies related to VLEISIDES. She believed VLEISIDES also used the name "Atlas Informaticos." Michael Swink stated that VLEISIDES told him that VLEISIDES was a licensed broker for these companies in Europe. PJ Swink and Michael Swink have met VLEISIDES in person.

c.   PJ Swink provided a business card with contact information for VLEISIDES. The information on the card said "SONNY VLEISIDES." The address was in Costa Rica. The email address was sonnv[-BAD-OCR-]city.com . However, PJ Swink later identified a further email address for VLEISIDES of [email protected].




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20.   Henry Walther, who has pled guilty to one count of mail fraud and one count of money laundering and is cooperating with the United States government, stated the following when interviewed:

a. Henry Walther explained that the main people involved in the lottery were Houston, VLEISIDES, and Dennis Emmett. The business started with Houston and Emmett. Houston was the principal behind it. Cloud is Houston's brother or halfbrother, and lives in Amsterdam. About five years ago, Houston and Dennis Emmett got into an argument and split their businesses. Then, Houston and VLEISIDES got into an argument, and VLEISIDES took over the business.

b.   For the last five to ten years, Henry Walther has been working as an accountant/banker and attorney for VLEISIDES and Houston, who he also knows as "Rex Vieisides" and "Rex Rogers." Henry Walther explained that VLEISIDES and Houston resided in Costa Rica. Henry Walther explained that Houston and VLEISIDES operated a mail solicitation business involving foreign lotteries and horse racing. Two of the companies they use were The Shamrock Agency and World Expert Fund. Houston and VLEISIDES instructed Henry Walther to open and maintain bank accounts in the United States because the banking system was too slow in Costa Rica.


21. Glenda Emmet, when interviewed, stated the following:

a.   Emmett was the owner of Astro Computer, which operated a mail list business. This included maintaining lists and preparing the letters to be mailed out by a mail house.

b.   For five or six years, her only customer was Global Search Network, which was run by her ex-husband, Dennis Emmett. Dennis Emmett is now in prison in Costa Rica for murder, but was still issuing instructions to her from prison. Before she worked for Global Search Network, she worked for World Expert Fund. That company was owned by VLEISIDES. Her ex-husband, Dennis Emmett, worked with World Expert Fund for some time in Costa Rica.




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Search Warrant Evidence

26. On July 6, 2006, several search warrants were executed at addresses in California, Georgia, and Missouri. The searches yielded the following evidence, as well as other information:

a. A computer belonging to co-schemer Scott Walther contained documents and emails involving the scheme. The emails were between VLEISIDES and co-schemer Henry Walther and Scott Walther. Some of the emails were addressed to "Sonny" with an email of [email protected] (identified as VLEISIDES' email address by other participants in the scheme, while others were addressed to "Sonny Vleisides" with the same email address. Specific examples of documents and emails are as follows:

i. A word processing document stating: This is a fraud that has been going on for many years. Millions of dollars have been stolen from people that cannot afford it. The mailings originate from Little Rock, AR-cancelled at 722. The mail then goes to . . . Amsterdam in the Netherlands. From there it is sent by DHL to . . . Costa Rica. Atlas Informaticos to be held for pick up at the DHL office... The master mind behind this scam is James Ray Houston apx. 60 years old. He gained fame in 1974 when he ran for Governor in Nevada. His accomplice is Sonny Vleisides apx. 30 years old. Both from Kansas City originally .... However, these guys are very slick and try very hard not put their names on anything. A Russian by the name of Mikhstl Larguine has been used as Houston's front man for most of the 10 years plus that Houston has been in Costa Rica. Houston has used many aliases over the years. Rex Rogers was the longest lasting.

ii.   An email dated November 1, 2002, from Henry Walther to Sonny at an email address of [email protected] with a "cc" to Scott Walther, shows a thread of discussion regarding establishing a new bank account and company offshore since accounts were being closed in the United States. At one point Henry Walther asks VLEISIDES "What goals do you want to accomplish by getting the accounts offshore. I think it is to keep the account from being shut down by the US banking system. Any other goals?" VLEISIDES responds saying "The only objective is to have an account with less vulnerability from any US authority. Also depending on how the account works for the Mexican bank-it may be more difficult for the bank to deal with canceling an account that's co-mingled with all their other accounts in the US-because it's all really just one account to them." In an earlier thread, Henry Walther had written: "Dear Sonny: Today Scott set up a new EU American Payment Services account at Union Bank. I will get the information to you tomorrow, but since PJ [Swink, a participant in the scheme, as described above] has Scott's facsimile signature and also the Union Bank has been handling the North American account, it should be easy to set up once she has the account number."

c. At an address in Georgia that was under the control of co-schemer William Cloud through a woman named Mary McRae, relevant evidence including the following was found:

i.   Thousands of credit card "Mail Order Forms" that listed names and credit card numbers. On the bottom of many of the forms was "Euro American."

ii.   Western Union receipts for money wired by McRae, in Georgia, USA, to "Sonny Velisides" in Costa Rica. The dates and amounts were as follows: August 11, 2004 - $2200, August 5, 2004 - $1200, July 9, 2004 - $3300, July 2, 2004 - $2000, and June 24, 2004 - $2000.




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27.   SONNY VLEISIDES is a United States citizen born on February 21, 1971, in Las Vegas, Nevada. He is a white male, who is 1.8 meters tali and was last known to weigh approximately 70 kilograms. He has black hair and hazel eyes. He was issued a United States passport, number 701797046, on May 23, 1989, in New Orleans, Louisiana. A photograph of VLEISIDES is attached as Exhibit 1 to my affidavit.

28.   Henry Walther has identified the photograph attached as Exhibit 1 to this affidavit as being a photograph of the same SONNY VLEISIDES who ran the fraudulent lottery scheme discussed in this affidavit.

Timothy Nugent, Special Agent
Internal Revenue Service -
Criminal Investigations Division

Subscribed to and sworn before me this 9 day of May, 2007

HONORABLE SUZANNE H. SEGAL
United States Magistrate Judge


The photo attached to the extradition document:
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000
To be honest- at this point BFL is a functioning company with R&D costs like any other. If this new revelation explains anything, I think it more  likely explains why they needed to offer pre-orders: with a history of Mail Fraud it might be impossible for BFL to get outside venture capital, or even borrow money from the bank, thus the community pre-order's bankroll the next iteration of equipment.
Inaba stated that that preorders were not used to fund development and that outside investments (VC, etc) were taken.
Ah. Hmm, there goes that theory I guess! :-)
I'm still suspicious though, because that makes the only legitimate reason to offer preorders getting buyers locked into their products instead of competitors.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.
To be honest- at this point BFL is a functioning company with R&D costs like any other. If this new revelation explains anything, I think it more  likely explains why they needed to offer pre-orders: with a history of Mail Fraud it might be impossible for BFL to get outside venture capital, or even borrow money from the bank, thus the community pre-order's bankroll the next iteration of equipment.
Inaba stated that that preorders were not used to fund development and that outside investments (VC, etc) were taken.
Ah. Hmm, there goes that theory I guess! :-)

Unless the "VC" actually means his own savings from a scam...?
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME
To be honest- at this point BFL is a functioning company with R&D costs like any other. If this new revelation explains anything, I think it more  likely explains why they needed to offer pre-orders: with a history of Mail Fraud it might be impossible for BFL to get outside venture capital, or even borrow money from the bank, thus the community pre-order's bankroll the next iteration of equipment.
Inaba stated that that preorders were not used to fund development and that outside investments (VC, etc) were taken.
Ah. Hmm, there goes that theory I guess! :-)
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
lol remember when I said small companies don't pull multi-billion dollar chip-making facilities out of their asses?

so did the CEO use dirty funds to start BFL?

Noooooo.  By the time your'e convicted, served, and on parole, they've got your illegally gained money.
hero member
Activity: 490
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... it only gets better...
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
If 5830 E 2nd St address is a dropbox and 2507 Jefferson (KC, MO) is a photo studio, I fail to see where the factory is.

I found the answer to my question and something more: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.588169 (locked)

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Our actual fabrication facility is quite impressive, but we don't own it...  it's in Taiwan where the current run of processors is underway.

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Sure, that would be great.  The best choice would be our lead engineer in Paris, France or me.  I'm based out of Kansas City, Missouri.  Either of us would be happy to give you a quick demo when the product is ready for review.
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