Re: Mining pools list - page 23. | Bitcointalksearch.org

organofcorti

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Quote from: -ck on March 16, 2015, 05:44:15 PM

Quote from: os2sam on March 16, 2015, 05:31:26 PM

So does the very short N make it hoppable?

No because he still pays the last N which is the key to making it unhoppable. I'm trying to envision if there might be some way to strategically mine going back and forth between two pools where the N ends up being wildly different durations but I can't think of one. OOC might be able to chime in here.

General PPLNS is provably fair, regardless of N. Even if N was just the last share, it would be still fair (and equivalent to solomining). I think Slush's version should be fair, but I can't be certain without a proof.

organofcorti

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Quote from: DrHaribo on March 16, 2015, 02:58:18 PM

How much extra could pool hoppers make? 50%? I guess it required many proportional pools to hop between though.

Meni Rosenfeld derived an equation which approximates this (Table B1 in https://bitcoil.co.il/pool_analysis.pdf):

E(no fallback) = m*log(m)/(m-1)
E = expected share value multiplier, m = number of proportional pools.

To get 1.5x (as you suggested) you'd need three prop pools if you weren't using any fair pools in between prop rounds (no fallback). If you use a fair pool in between prop rounds, then you expect better than 1.5 from only two prop pools.

Quote from: DrHaribo on March 16, 2015, 02:58:18 PM

And I guess Slush's pool is much less profitable to pool hop than a prop pool.

As ck wrote, I think Slush's is no longer hoppable, some kind of PPLNS with an exponentially decaying n.

Quote from: os2sam on March 16, 2015, 02:20:21 PM

Quote from: abracadabra on March 16, 2015, 01:59:19 PM

Quote from: organofcorti on March 14, 2015, 02:24:35 AM

OK folks, we have a prop pool listed for the first time in a long time.

* abracadabra fires up bithopper

It's good to work out those GPU's from time to time

Couldn't you use an ASIC with bitHopper?

DrHaribo

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Quote from: os2sam on March 16, 2015, 05:31:26 PM

So does the very short N make it hoppable?

Nope. That would mean it is not hoppable.

With just one hoppable pool I dunno if pool hoppers would make much extra.

Maybe with alt coin pools. I think proportional is more common there?

-ck

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Ruu \o/

Quote from: os2sam on March 16, 2015, 05:31:26 PM

So does the very short N make it hoppable?

No because he still pays the last N which is the key to making it unhoppable. I'm trying to envision if there might be some way to strategically mine going back and forth between two pools where the N ends up being wildly different durations but I can't think of one. OOC might be able to chime in here.

os2sam

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Quote from: -ck on March 16, 2015, 05:09:09 PM

Quote from: DrHaribo on March 16, 2015, 02:58:18 PM

And I guess Slush's pool is much less profitable to pool hop than a prop pool.

Slush moved from his exponential scoring system to PPLNS with a very short N instead. He just never posted an announcement here since he's abandoned the forum as a support channel.

So does the very short N make it hoppable?

-ck

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Ruu \o/

Quote from: DrHaribo on March 16, 2015, 02:58:18 PM

And I guess Slush's pool is much less profitable to pool hop than a prop pool.

Slush moved from his exponential scoring system to PPLNS with a very short N instead. He just never posted an announcement here since he's abandoned the forum as a support channel.

DrHaribo

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How much extra could pool hoppers make? 50%? I guess it required many proportional pools to hop between though. And I guess Slush's pool is much less profitable to pool hop than a prop pool.

os2sam

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Think for yourself

Quote from: abracadabra on March 16, 2015, 01:59:19 PM

Quote from: organofcorti on March 14, 2015, 02:24:35 AM

OK folks, we have a prop pool listed for the first time in a long time.

* abracadabra fires up bithopper

It's good to work out those GPU's from time to time

abracadabra

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Quote from: organofcorti on March 14, 2015, 02:24:35 AM

OK folks, we have a prop pool listed for the first time in a long time.

* abracadabra fires up bithopper

abracadabra

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Quote from: organofcorti on March 14, 2015, 02:20:04 AM

Quote from: abracadabra on March 13, 2015, 11:40:41 AM

Quote from: organofcorti on March 03, 2015, 07:42:19 PM

That's true, but as kano wrote, the expected value for any share submitted before 0.43*difficulty is greater than the expected value of any share submitted ~~before~~ after 0.43*difficulty.

Gah! I feel stupid.

meh.... i'm sure it was just a typo.. nw

organofcorti

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Quote from: jt4590 on March 13, 2015, 12:39:21 PM

Quote from: organofcorti on March 12, 2015, 05:44:38 PM

Quote from: jt4590 on March 12, 2015, 05:16:40 PM

Bitcoin and Altcoin pool. (I'll post altcoin information in the proper thread. This is for the Bitcoin pool.)

Pool: Tux's Coinpool
Website: www.altcoinaltpool.net
Proxy: No
Gen addr: 16Zec538DisiM24XFvfAty8n5MEqpaeJen
Payout: Proportional
Fee: 2%
Pay Tx: No
Vardiff: 20SPM
Local Work: Stratum
Orphans: No
Min Wthdrl: .01
Merge Mine: No, TBA

A quick question before I update the list - are you sure you want to reward your miner's proportionally, given the problems that can cause? http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/5072/what-is-pool-hopping

Thank you for the links, I read up on all of that.
I'm actually looking into converting my pool over to PPLNS or DGM, but for now I'm running coiniumserv and learning all of the ins and outs.

For example, a miner joined one of my altcoin pools today (ACOIN) and one of the DB columns for the currency was too small. (It was VARCHAR(4) instead of at least VARCHAR(5))

So the payment didn't go out when it was supposed to, but it has been corrected and the miner was manually reimbursed more than what they mined since I didn't have it setup correctly.

Anyway, any pointers, tips, ways to convert to PPLNS or DGM... it's all appreciated and I will read it and do my best to apply it.

Anyone who needs to contact me about the pool can do so at [email protected]. I always read all of my emails and will do my best to respond to requests and inquiries in a timely manner.

OK folks, we have a prop pool listed for the first time in a long time.

organofcorti

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Activity: 2058

Merit: 1007

Poor impulse control.

Quote from: abracadabra on March 13, 2015, 11:40:41 AM

Quote from: organofcorti on March 03, 2015, 07:42:19 PM

That's true, but as kano wrote, the expected value for any share submitted before 0.43*difficulty is greater than the expected value of any share submitted ~~before~~ after 0.43*difficulty.

Gah! I feel stupid.

jt4590

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Quote from: organofcorti on March 12, 2015, 05:44:38 PM

Quote from: jt4590 on March 12, 2015, 05:16:40 PM

Bitcoin and Altcoin pool. (I'll post altcoin information in the proper thread. This is for the Bitcoin pool.)

Pool: Tux's Coinpool
Website: www.altcoinaltpool.net
Proxy: No
Gen addr: 16Zec538DisiM24XFvfAty8n5MEqpaeJen
Payout: Proportional
Fee: 2%
Pay Tx: No
Vardiff: 20SPM
Local Work: Stratum
Orphans: No
Min Wthdrl: .01
Merge Mine: No, TBA

A quick question before I update the list - are you sure you want to reward your miner's proportionally, given the problems that can cause? http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/5072/what-is-pool-hopping

Thank you for the links, I read up on all of that.
I'm actually looking into converting my pool over to PPLNS or DGM, but for now I'm running coiniumserv and learning all of the ins and outs.

For example, a miner joined one of my altcoin pools today (ACOIN) and one of the DB columns for the currency was too small. (It was VARCHAR(4) instead of at least VARCHAR(5))

So the payment didn't go out when it was supposed to, but it has been corrected and the miner was manually reimbursed more than what they mined since I didn't have it setup correctly.

Anyway, any pointers, tips, ways to convert to PPLNS or DGM... it's all appreciated and I will read it and do my best to apply it.

Anyone who needs to contact me about the pool can do so at [email protected]. I always read all of my emails and will do my best to respond to requests and inquiries in a timely manner.

abracadabra

hero member

Activity: 956

Merit: 1001

Quote from: organofcorti on March 03, 2015, 07:42:19 PM

That's true, but as kano wrote, the expected value for any share submitted before 0.43*difficulty is greater than the expected value of any share submitted ~~before~~ after 0.43*difficulty.

organofcorti

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Activity: 2058

Merit: 1007

Poor impulse control.

Quote from: jt4590 on March 12, 2015, 05:16:40 PM

Bitcoin and Altcoin pool. (I'll post altcoin information in the proper thread. This is for the Bitcoin pool.)

Pool: Tux's Coinpool
Website: www.altcoinaltpool.net
Proxy: No
Gen addr: 16Zec538DisiM24XFvfAty8n5MEqpaeJen
Payout: Proportional
Fee: 2%
Pay Tx: No
Vardiff: 20SPM
Local Work: Stratum
Orphans: No
Min Wthdrl: .01
Merge Mine: No, TBA

A quick question before I update the list - are you sure you want to reward your miner's proportionally, given the problems that can cause? http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/5072/what-is-pool-hopping

jt4590

newbie

Activity: 8

Merit: 0

Bitcoin and Altcoin pool. (I'll post altcoin information in the proper thread. This is for the Bitcoin pool.)

Pool: Tux's Coinpool
Website: www.altcoinaltpool.net
Proxy: No
Gen addr: 16Zec538DisiM24XFvfAty8n5MEqpaeJen
Payout: Proportional
Fee: 2%
Pay Tx: No
Vardiff: 20SPM
Local Work: Stratum
Orphans: No
Min Wthdrl: .01
Merge Mine: No, TBA

lauraallen

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I would like mining one but for all

organofcorti

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Poor impulse control.

Quote from: specgamer on March 07, 2015, 06:53:11 PM

How would I join, do I have to pay a fee of some sort to enrol in a pool?

Go to the pool's website and see how to join up. You usually don't have to pay a fee to join, just a percentage of income.

specgamer

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Merit: 250

I love bitcoins.

How would I join, do I have to pay a fee of some sort to enrol in a pool?

organofcorti

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Poor impulse control.

Quote from: Biomech on March 03, 2015, 09:47:21 PM

Quote from: organofcorti on March 03, 2015, 07:42:19 PM

Quote from: CoinhashEU on March 03, 2015, 08:20:34 AM

I think when a block is found the script itself (NoMP) split it between the shares (Prop) so i`m guessing the fees will be split too.

Can you confirm that? Maybe email the people developing your pool software?

Quote from: CoinhashEU on March 03, 2015, 08:45:54 AM

Hello ,

Maybe i`m mistaking the terms , but so far i have figured out that.

Taking your example for 43% and your estimate of 40mil shares on your pool .

43% from 40mil = ~17mil shares . On NOMP if there is 20mil shares on the found block then yes , they will be paid more (as normal) . But if miners leave on the 17th mil share and until block there is another 50 million shares the first 17mil will cost less than original (which is normal too since the block will be split between 67mil shares in the second example and between 20mil shares on the first example) .

That's true, but as kano wrote, the expected value for any share submitted before 0.43*difficulty is greater than the expected value of any share submitted before 0.43*difficulty.

All this was covered and um hashed out (heh heh) years ago.

Try reading these posts:

http://howtohop.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/how-to-hop-5-back-to-basics.html?view=sidebar
http://howtohop.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/how-to-hop-6-basic-probability-for.html?view=sidebar
http://howtohop.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/how-to-hop-7-expected-share-values.html?view=sidebar

I can confirm that by default NOMP includes tx fees in the payout. However, I think (as you had pointed out) that the operator would be well advised to use pplns. It's a pretty simple change in the configuration. NOMP also has some pretty ugly issues with displaying statistics.

Thanks for the information, Biomech.

CoinhashEU, if you're determined to use a prop payout, let me know and I'll add you to the list.

Topic: Re: Mining pools list - page 23. (Read 784 times)