Re-visit the question: What is bitcoin's value backed by? - page 2.

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: superresistant on October 10, 2013, 10:20:03 AM

...
It all come back to drugs : if FBI could shutdown now and forever all bitcoin-drug-related-shops, bitcoin would be pointless & worthless.

Poe's law. Never fails to amuse...

Poe (Nathan, not Edgar) was known for his scathing sarcasm, be careful about taking his law seriously... Edgar, OTOH, was better known for being a doper, but now it turns out he wasn't. Knowing this makes his writing virtually worthless -- like reading Burroughs & finding out he really was just a straight, misunderstood diabetic.

Carlton Banks

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It has no backing, it has something better: inherent value. [/thread]

Hashing network, software design, immutable laws of cryptographic mathematics etc do NOT correspond to a currency backing. These properties in combination confer the value, being fairly superior examples of the traditional Aristotle list. Except the whole internet/electricity dependence issue.

johnyj

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Beyond Imagination

Quote from: NewLiberty on October 12, 2013, 12:28:38 AM

I'm backing it with silver and soon also gold. Fully redeemable.
And so can you, or with the asset of your choosing.
A decentralized bank vs central banking.

True, actually you don't need a lot of money to back the value of bitcoin, just a little bit in every people's risk capital will push the price up several magnitude. I'm only using a part of my risk capital to purchase bitcoin when it falls, but if everyone is doing this, the value of each coin will be unimaginable

The demand for a reliable long term saving medium will never disappear

NewLiberty

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Gresham's Lawyer

Quote from: SheHadMANHands on October 11, 2013, 10:51:31 PM

The Bitcoin protocol is not "backed" by any single entity, such as a company, individual or organized government. A sole instance of "backing" requires a "backer", and troublesome point of failure.

If we must place a persona behind the protocol, we'd say that it's backed by the users (the market). In this way, the "backing" is egalitarian and spread across the network.

We could then ask why the market has chosen to "back" or support Bitcoin. A government entity, for example, has an obvious interest in backing it's own currency. Why do the users of Bitcoin "back" it? Because the users believe it has value, due to it's specific attributes, which make it a great store of value and medium of exchange.

Grin

I'm backing it with silver and soon also gold. Fully redeemable.
And so can you, or with the asset of your choosing.
A decentralized bank vs central banking.

ScaryHash

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It's backed up by the hashing power of the entire network.

So there is no actual office, person, or entity that can fuck it up, devalue it, or forge it, because they would actually need to do work in order to take it over.

You see, governments around the world are busy printing (or digitally creating), money out of thin air to pay for the promises that they have made to their people and their elites. But they have nothing to back them up with, so paper money is devaluing.

Bitcoin has been increasing in value over the last year, with some fluctuation, but it has had a net gain over 1.5 years ago. The reason Bitcoin has been increasing in value is because other money has been decreasing in value, while being backed by nothing.

But, the power of the network prevents Bitcoin from being printed, and has a predictable money creation rate (the mining rate), which traditional states do not have, because their policies vary depending on who is in power/popular every few years.

So, Bitcoin is backed up by the full power of the nodes and the hashing network, while other money is backed up by politicians and their promises. Which would you rather have?

SheHadMANHands

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The Bitcoin protocol is not "backed" by any single entity, such as a company, individual or organized government. A sole instance of "backing" requires a "backer", and troublesome point of failure.

If we must place a persona behind the protocol, we'd say that it's backed by the users (the market). In this way, the "backing" is egalitarian and spread across the network.

We could then ask why the market has chosen to "back" or support Bitcoin. A government entity, for example, has an obvious interest in backing it's own currency. Why do the users of Bitcoin "back" it? Because the users believe it has value, due to it's specific attributes, which make it a great store of value and medium of exchange.

Grin

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Electric bills and computer hardware price..

Valerian77

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The value of Bitcoin (and anything else) is simply what people are willed to pay for it - same for fiat currency which has the adavantage (?) that goverments made supporting statements on it.

Eg. take a bible. There may be 2.26 billion christians on this globe with believe in what is writen there. Surprisingly the bible itself can be bought/exchanged for small money. That is because the total number of bible is not limited. Consequently the prise dropped down to the printing costs.

For comparison take a peace of ground in New York City. This is a very limited resource what many people believe in. And not surprisingly the price for this kind of ground is very high.

Bitcoins is a limited resource with a steadily growing number of believers. And the more it is attacked the more it is well known trusted. That will raise its value.

PS: Definitely it has nothing to do with drugs or other crimes.

superresistant

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Quote from: Corelianer on October 10, 2013, 09:43:09 AM

Quote from: manfred on October 09, 2013, 05:11:41 AM

Quote from: polarhei on October 09, 2013, 03:46:58 AM

Trust.

Trusting only 21M available
Trusting never double spent
Trusting the monitoring network, To build this, need different nodes to check out.
Trusting the being not to be used in bad ways (The blockchain implies you cannot do bad with it)

Very true, only problem is if I take the code, not change a thing and start another Blockchain every single one of your points is still valid. The value of the identical other run would not be the same, so no it is't it.

Good idea, never thought of that.

It all come back to drugs : if FBI could shutdown now and forever all bitcoin-drug-related-shops, bitcoin would be pointless & worthless.

Corelianer

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Quote from: manfred on October 09, 2013, 05:11:41 AM

Quote from: polarhei on October 09, 2013, 03:46:58 AM

Trust.

Trusting only 21M available
Trusting never double spent
Trusting the monitoring network, To build this, need different nodes to check out.
Trusting the being not to be used in bad ways (The blockchain implies you cannot do bad with it)

Very true, only problem is if I take the code, not change a thing and start another Blockchain every single one of your points is still valid. The value of the identical other run would not be the same, so no it is't it.

Good idea, never thought of that.

manfred

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Energy is Wealth

Quote from: polarhei on October 09, 2013, 03:46:58 AM

Trust.

Trusting only 21M available
Trusting never double spent
Trusting the monitoring network, To build this, need different nodes to check out.
Trusting the being not to be used in bad ways (The blockchain implies you cannot do bad with it)

Very true, only problem is if I take the code, not change a thing and start another Blockchain every single one of your points is still valid. The value of the identical other run would not be the same, so no it is't it.

polarhei

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Firing it up

Trust.

Trusting only 21M available
Trusting never double spent
Trusting the monitoring network, To build this, need different nodes to check out.
Trusting the being not to be used in bad ways (The blockchain implies you cannot do bad with it)

crumbs

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Quote from: superresistant on October 08, 2013, 10:40:50 AM

...Money doesn't have to have a purpose as an object. You can wipe your asshole with dollar bills.
...

I hope that's not an admission of guilt Angry

Destroying/defacing US currency is a (petty) crime!

crumbs

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Quote from: Corelianer on October 07, 2013, 08:28:51 AM

Fiat currency is inflating, Bitcoin is deflating, so price of Bitcoin will rise naturally.

1. My clonecoin is more deflationary than bitcoin (which is currently inflating -- the miners aren't mining for TX fees

).
2. My clonecoin's worth rel. BTC will continue to increase.
3. ? ? ?
4. PROFIT!!!

Quote

With every exchange between Fiat and Bitcoin the exchange rate will rise at least with the ammount of inflation.

See above

Quote

So everyone who is holding Fiat is actually stupid cause Bitcoin is not loosing while every one else is.

Everyone holding BTC instead of my clonecoin is stupid. See (1).

Quote

Everyone that just holds Bitcoin will keep their values reather than all the Fiat money users who in-fact loose money in the speed of inflation.

This fact changes when you also look at the market value, here is Bitcoin dangerous cause the market is small and the volatility high.

Buy my clonecoin pl0x. What can possibly go wrong?

superresistant

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Quote from: Corelianer on October 08, 2013, 07:05:27 AM

I want to add some things:
- Well both BTC and Gold are both rare.
- You can make jeweleries out of gold but you can't make that out of Bitcoin.
So Gold has a purpose for itself, Bitcoin hasn't.
The purpose of Bitcoin is to pay, trade and store values. Bitcoin is backed by trust.

I think this is irrelevant. Money doesn't have to have a purpose as an object. You can wipe your asshole with dollar bills.

Quote from: Corelianer on October 08, 2013, 07:05:27 AM

No trust, no Bitcoin.

No trust, no exchange, no trade, no human interaction at all.

Quote from: Corelianer on October 08, 2013, 07:05:27 AM

Why is the paper-wallet generator for example not included in the standard-bitcoin client?

I'm wondering too. We could then say bitcoin have a purpose, wiping my ass.

Corelianer

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I want to add some things:

- Well both BTC and Gold are both rare.
- You can make jeweleries out of gold but you can't make that out of Bitcoin.

So Gold has a purpose for itself, Bitcoin hasn't.
The purpose of Bitcoin is to pay, trade and store values. Bitcoin is backed by trust.

No trust, no Bitcoin.

The more secure Bitcoin trading systems are, the more valuable and trustable Bitcoin will become.
More security means normally more inconvenience in handling. Here is Bitcoin unique, it's secure but still easy to handle.
But there are still things to improve.

Why is the paper-wallet generator for example not included in the standard-bitcoin client?

TERA

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Your btc are backed by the value, either in fiat or in goods and services, that you will be able to redeem them for somewhere, either now or at any point in the future in which you choose to spend them.

NewLiberty

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Gresham's Lawyer

Quote from: Corelianer on October 07, 2013, 09:33:26 AM

Quote from: drewph on October 07, 2013, 08:59:03 AM

Eisenhower Standard!

No I don't think Eisenhower would concider Bitcoin as "Standard".

Gold is still a physical commodity, but Bitcoin isn't a commodity.
But that's also not neccessary, most of the other attributes apply.

Gold was also used for ~~hundrets~~ thousands of years. Bitcoins are used 4 years now.

But Bitcoins have also advantages:
- Fewer costs in storing
- Fewer costs in transporting

The two complement each other very nicely, and now with the Bitcoin Specie pieces, also very easily.
Each of us are a part of the decentralized bank, and each of us can back Bitcoin's value with our hard assets, including gold and silver.

superresistant

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Quote from: NewLiberty on October 07, 2013, 06:11:50 AM

It seems... not so much anymore.
http://thegenesisblock.com/analysis-silk-roads-historical-impact-bitcoin/

Not much any more and that's a good thing. Bitcoin need trust and stability.

Corelianer

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Quote from: drewph on October 07, 2013, 08:59:03 AM

Eisenhower Standard!

No I don't think Eisenhower would concider Bitcoin as "Standard".

Gold is still a physical commodity, but Bitcoin isn't a commodity.
But that's also not neccessary, most of the other attributes apply.

Gold was also used for ~~hundrets~~ thousands of years. Bitcoins are used 4 years now.

But Bitcoins have also advantages:
- Fewer costs in storing
- Fewer costs in transporting

Topic: Re-visit the question: What is bitcoin's value backed by? - page 2. (Read 9138 times)