Read this before having an opinion on economics

The Script

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Quote from: vrotaru on June 28, 2011, 07:17:34 AM

Quote from: JA37 on June 24, 2011, 03:00:17 AM

Quote from: BitterTea on June 23, 2011, 05:14:13 PM

Because Keynes supports state intervention in matters of money, and states like to intervene in matters of money?

That could be one of the explanations why states like Keynesian theory, but it doesn't explain why most economists do.

Who paying the most economist's wages? Same people who like to intervene in the matters of money?

I'd say that, outright corruption, if anything, is extremely rare. However, at least one prof, confessed that he didn't dare to publish an article opposing the mainstream view for several years, fearing that he may lose his job. But a bias in selection and self-selection of economists is what happens. It starts with public schools and ends with Federal Reserve research grants. Add intellectual fads into mixture.

Also is very easy to be wrong for long time in economics. Unique events, mixed evidence, political pressures. Not exactly a lab.

Which is why economics isn't fundamentally an empirical science, but rather a logical axiomatic one.

vrotaru

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Quote from: JA37 on June 24, 2011, 03:00:17 AM

Quote from: BitterTea on June 23, 2011, 05:14:13 PM

Because Keynes supports state intervention in matters of money, and states like to intervene in matters of money?

That could be one of the explanations why states like Keynesian theory, but it doesn't explain why most economists do.

Who paying the most economist's wages? Same people who like to intervene in the matters of money?

I'd say that, outright corruption, if anything, is extremely rare. However, at least one prof, confessed that he didn't dare to publish an article opposing the mainstream view for several years, fearing that he may lose his job. But a bias in selection and self-selection of economists is what happens. It starts with public schools and ends with Federal Reserve research grants. Add intellectual fads into mixture.

Also is very easy to be wrong for long time in economics. Unique events, mixed evidence, political pressures. Not exactly a lab.

jtimon

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Quote from: The Script on June 28, 2011, 01:07:56 AM

I corrected the only mistake I found. Your English writing is fairly good from what I've seen. Kudos to you. I am always embarrassed that English is the only language I can speak and write fluently.

Thank you for the correction and for the compliment.

Quote from: The Script on June 28, 2011, 01:07:56 AM

I'll have to look in to Gesell, I had never heard of him until you brought him up.

That's great. He's quite unknown. He has influenced Bernard Lietaer and Margrit Kennedy though.
Please, let me know what you think after you read him.

The Script

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Quote from: jtimon on June 26, 2011, 11:17:07 AM

Quote from: frutza on June 26, 2011, 11:01:52 AM

Quote

Look at what Keynes said:

"Gesell's chiefwork is written in cool and scientific terms, although it is run through by a more passionate and charged devotion to social justice than many think fit for a scholar. I believe that the future will learn more from Gesell’s than from Marx’s spirit."

So Keynes believs Gessell is Marx 2.0 Now, how cool is that Grin

Beautiful English though...

Keynes believed that the future will learn something from Gesell's spirit, don't know if we will from Marx's. Not that I'm a Keynes fan, I was just recommending another economics reading. Maybe someone changes his opinion on economics after reading that. If just one of you reads the book my comment is worths something. I just think austrians should have an opinion/critique on Gesell. Sorry if I'm too annoying with that.
English is not my native language. Can you point out my mistakes so I can improve?

I corrected the only mistake I found. Your English writing is fairly good from what I've seen. Kudos to you. I am always embarrassed that English is the only language I can speak and write fluently.

I'll have to look in to Gesell, I had never heard of him until you brought him up.

The Script

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Quote from: JA37 on June 25, 2011, 04:03:37 PM

Quote from: The Script on June 24, 2011, 03:25:56 AM

The missing link to the vicious circle: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/07/priceless-how-the-federal_n_278805.html

Note: this is the Huff post which is not a "fringe" website as far as I know.

Very US-centric but a good read none the less. I'm not convinced that most economists around the world are affected by this, and I would find it hard to believe that you would have such a dominant player in every region that would push everyone to the Keynesian side.

I'm not saying this applies to every country, though the Central Banks do seem to be fairly interconnected. This article is more of a counter to the people in my country who always say "If the Fed is bad why do so may economists support it?".

JA37

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Quote from: BitterTea on June 25, 2011, 08:03:54 PM

The Federal Reserve is not the only central bank, just one of the most influential (mostly because dollars are the world's reserve currency).

I know there are more central banks. What was displayed was really bad corporate culture. What makes you think that every other central bank in the world would have such bad culture?

jtimon

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Quote from: frutza on June 26, 2011, 11:01:52 AM

Quote

Look at what Keynes said:

"Gesell's chiefwork is written in cool and scientific terms, although it is run through by a more passionate and charged devotion to social justice than many think fit for a scholar. I believe that the future will learn more from Gesell’s than from Marx’s spirit."

So Keynes believs Gessell is Marx 2.0 Now, how cool is that Grin

Beautiful English though...

Keynes believed that the future will learn something from Gesell's spirit, don't know if we will from Marx's. Not that I'm a Keynes fan, I was just recommending another economics reading. Maybe someone changes his opinion on economics after reading that. If just one of you reads the book my comment worths something. I just think austrians should have an opinion/critique on Gesell. Sorry if I'm too annoying with that.
English is not my native language. Can you point out my mistakes so I can improve?

frutza

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Quote

Look at what Keynes said:

"Gesell's chiefwork is written in cool and scientific terms, although it is run through by a more passionate and charged devotion to social justice than many think fit for a scholar. I believe that the future will learn more from Gesell’s than from Marx’s spirit."

So Keynes believs Gessell is Marx 2.0 Now, how cool is that Grin

Beautiful English though...

BitterTea

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Quote from: JA37 on June 25, 2011, 04:03:37 PM

Quote from: The Script on June 24, 2011, 03:25:56 AM

The missing link to the vicious circle: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/07/priceless-how-the-federal_n_278805.html

Note: this is the Huff post which is not a "fringe" website as far as I know.

Very US-centric but a good read none the less. I'm not convinced that most economists around the world are affected by this, and I would find it hard to believe that you would have such a dominant player in every region that would push everyone to the Keynesian side.

The Federal Reserve is not the only central bank, just one of the most influential (mostly because dollars are the world's reserve currency).

JA37

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Quote from: The Script on June 24, 2011, 03:25:56 AM

The missing link to the vicious circle: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/07/priceless-how-the-federal_n_278805.html

Note: this is the Huff post which is not a "fringe" website as far as I know.

Very US-centric but a good read none the less. I'm not convinced that most economists around the world are affected by this, and I would find it hard to believe that you would have such a dominant player in every region that would push everyone to the Keynesian side.

jtimon

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Quote from: frutza on June 23, 2011, 07:47:25 AM

I apologize for bringing this up on an obviously Austrian school forum Grin

but what about Keynes and Friedman? Not bad reads either...

Look at what Keynes said:

"Gesell's chiefwork is written in cool and scientific terms, although it is run through by a more passionate and charged devotion to social justice than many think fit for a scholar. I believe that the future will learn more from Gesell’s than from Marx’s spirit."

And for austrians...What if Keynes was right twice (apart from "In the end we're all death")?
Gesell seems pretty libertarian to me in most of his thoughts.

The Script

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Quote from: JA37 on June 24, 2011, 03:00:17 AM

Quote from: BitterTea on June 23, 2011, 05:14:13 PM

Because Keynes supports state intervention in matters of money, and states like to intervene in matters of money?

That could be one of the explanations why states like Keynesian theory, but it doesn't explain why most economists do.

The missing link to the vicious circle: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/07/priceless-how-the-federal_n_278805.html

Note: this is the Huff post which is not a "fringe" website as far as I know.

malditonuke

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Quote from: JA37 on June 24, 2011, 03:00:17 AM

Quote from: BitterTea on June 23, 2011, 05:14:13 PM

Because Keynes supports state intervention in matters of money, and states like to intervene in matters of money?

That could be one of the explanations why states like Keynesian theory, but it doesn't explain why most economists do.

Because it turns the dismal science into alchemy.

JA37

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Quote from: BitterTea on June 23, 2011, 05:14:13 PM

Because Keynes supports state intervention in matters of money, and states like to intervene in matters of money?

That could be one of the explanations why states like Keynesian theory, but it doesn't explain why most economists do.

The Script

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Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: Fjordbit on June 22, 2011, 01:42:28 AM

Quote from: praxeologist on June 21, 2011, 06:41:44 AM

If I got drunk, wandered in to your house and took a nap on your sofa, would that be a property rights violation IYO? I really don't think I should have to explain why this type of thing is "a violent act", or that if you argue this point anyone should take anything you say seriously.

You are begging the question that people have rights to property. So let's rephrase: If you got drunk, wandered into my house, took a nap on my sofa, woke up, and left, and I never knew, would that be a violent act? IMO no it would not be as no one was harmed and no one was fouled. You got a good night sleep and I didn't care.

If people don't have rights to property they cannot survive. All organisms are subject to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, that is that the entropy of an open system is always increasing. In order to counteract this, organisms must decrease entropy locally by controlling and consuming resourcs around them. Ownership of property is simply the economic controll of resources, and fundamentally, energy, and the ability to utilize said resources in order to sustain oneself. This is the basis of property rights.

For an insightful look at property without resort to the arbitrary constructs of "God-given" or "Natural" rights, read Butler Schafer's excellent book entitled "Boundaries of Order". Free online in PDF form.

BitterTea

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Quote from: JA37 on June 23, 2011, 04:20:11 PM

Quote from: Fjordbit on June 23, 2011, 04:05:28 PM

You don't have to believe in a global conspiracy to understand how Keynesian economists are incentivized by state governments, nor why state governments would want to incentivize Keynesians.

Please spell it out for me. I'm curious why you think so few economists have found the one true way.
Has perhaps "the market" chosen the best economic model there is, the Keynesian, and discarded the others? The market is always right, isn't it?

Because Keynes supports state intervention in matters of money, and states like to intervene in matters of money?

JA37

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Quote from: Fjordbit on June 23, 2011, 04:05:28 PM

You don't have to believe in a global conspiracy to understand how Keynesian economists are incentivized by state governments, nor why state governments would want to incentivize Keynesians.

Please spell it out for me. I'm curious why you think so few economists have found the one true way.
Has perhaps "the market" chosen the best economic model there is, the Keynesian, and discarded the others? The market is always right, isn't it?

Fjordbit

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Quote from: JA37 on June 23, 2011, 11:47:35 AM

I wonder why most economists don't subscribe to the Austrian school. Must be some global conspiracy. Contrary to what one might expect from reading these forums, it's quite a fringe theory.

You don't have to believe in a global conspiracy to understand how Keynesian economists are incentivized by state governments, nor why state governments would want to incentivize Keynesians.

JA37

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I wonder why most economists don't subscribe to the Austrian school. Must be some global conspiracy. Contrary to what one might expect from reading these forums, it's quite a fringe theory.

frutza

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I apologize for bringing this up on an obviously Austrian school forum Grin

but what about Keynes and Friedman? Not bad reads either...

Topic: Read this before having an opinion on economics (Read 25946 times)