Realistically does bitcoin have any competition ? - page 5.

chennan

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Quote from: americanpegasus on September 20, 2015, 09:57:24 PM

Quote from: a7mos on September 20, 2015, 09:56:29 PM

I do not think that other altcoin have any chance to remove bitcoin and become in its place because these coins are only a copy from the original thing with is bitcoin
And I think banks can not control bitcoin because it is decentralized

Monero is not a copy, goober. It is an entirely new code base. That's like calling Bitcoin a copy of Microsoft Excel.

a7mos: "I'm not a goober..."

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

I will start to get excited about Monero when its market cap is 10% or more of Bitcoin's and rapidly rising. Until then it's just another alt hyped by its fans like all the others.

All the talk in the world doesn't count for shit. Let's have results for all to see.

americanpegasus

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Quote from: a7mos on September 20, 2015, 09:56:29 PM

I do not think that other altcoin have any chance to remove bitcoin and become in its place because these coins are only a copy from the original thing with is bitcoin
And I think banks can not control bitcoin because it is decentralized

Monero is not a copy, goober. It is an entirely new code base. That's like calling Bitcoin a copy of Microsoft Excel.

a7mos

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I do not think that other altcoin have any chance to remove bitcoin and become in its place because these coins are only a copy from the original thing with is bitcoin
And I think banks can not control bitcoin because it is decentralized

boolberry

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Quote from: brg444 on September 20, 2015, 09:18:07 PM

Quote from: americanpegasus on September 20, 2015, 08:48:21 PM

Quote from: chennan on September 20, 2015, 08:45:02 PM

It's not like Wall Street would want to use monero for any reason because why should they care about the anonymity of the transactions, and I wouldn't really see Wall Street wanting to put it in the market because, well, they want to keep S & P all fiat based.

Pretend you and me want to enter a contract that neither of us can back out of, and that we want to keep totally private until a later time. For example, pretend that we are both mega-entities that believe the price of a certain asset will move soon. I think it will go up, and you think it will go down. We know that if the public knows that we are betting it will change the outcome because the public will take sides.

At a later point, we want the ability to reveal the existence and contents of said contract in its entirety, but also need the security that no one will discover its existence before we choose.

The answer is Monero.

My concern for Monero, one I have always expressed, is the likelihood of a sidechain-type service providing equivalent privacy while leveraging Bitcoin's network effect.

I also sat at the privacy related roundtable during last week's Scaling Bitcoin conference and it was mentioned many time that Monero could face the same scaling issues as Bitcoin and possibly worse given the apparent impossibility to prune the chain.

There are ways that pruning can be done by Monero and other CryptoNote coins.

The idea is not theoretical. Boolberry does it today. Monero could do the same thing (or use a similar solution to solve their precise needs)
http://boolberry.org/files/Boolberry_Reduces_Blockchain_Bloat.pdf
http://boolberry.com/downloads.html

americanpegasus

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Quote from: brg444 on September 20, 2015, 09:33:58 PM

I'm not sure how that holds. As much as there is value in privacy/anonymity there also is a lot in transparency.

I find myself mostly in agreement with your view that a private ledger could complement a public one but I'm not convinced this is sustainable if we somehow become able to transact privately within the public ledger.

That's the thing though; you can never transact privately when you start with a public asset. You can obfuscate the origin, kind of like proxies do now with internet traffic, but you can never have a true private asset. Bitcoin has what.... a headstart of a million users? That's nothing. There are still 6.998 billion people on Earth who don't use cryptocurrency.

I do see a future with a public and private ledger (perhaps even a good programmable ledger), but I am not sure which one will be more valuable. Ask yourself... if you were a powerful company or government, how much would it be worth to you to keep trade/state secrets?

dothebeats

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Quote from: americanpegasus on September 20, 2015, 09:29:14 PM

I'm a big picture guy - I see broad strokes and connections.

What I see is that we have been using the horse and buggy of cryptocurrency since 2008 and it has served us well. However, the combustible engine (of cryptocurrency) was just invented.

Is it perfect? No, but it's light years ahead of what we've been using.

Will it be all that civilization needs, forever and ever? Maybe or maybe not - but it's the next step and it's here now. There's no use arguing about adding small motors to horse carriages when you have the real-deal you can use instead.

Nice view on the matter. Bitcoin may not be the perfect engine there is to satisfy our needs, but it was indeed one of the (if not) the first of its kind to revolutionize the way we see money. Sure there may be something wrong on how we achieve x and y through bitcoin, but it greatly improved how we value money and how we look to it. There might come a time that we might be all using bitcoin as a part of our daily transactions, and there may also come a time that we may still be using fiat or any other successors of bitcoin that proved itself that it is much more ideal.

brg444

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Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: americanpegasus on September 20, 2015, 09:29:14 PM

I'm a big picture guy - I see broad strokes and connections.

What I see is that we have been using the horse and buggy of cryptocurrency since 2008 and it has served us well. However, the combustible engine (of cryptocurrency) was just invented.

Is it perfect? No, but it's light years ahead of what we've been using.

Will it be all that civilization needs, forever and ever? Maybe or maybe not - but it's the next step and it's here now. There's no use arguing about adding small motors to horse carriages when you have the real-deal you can use instead.

I'm not sure how that holds. As much as there is value in privacy/anonymity there also is a lot in transparency.

I find myself mostly in agreement with your view that a private ledger could complement a public one but I'm not convinced this is sustainable if we somehow become able to transact privately within the public ledger.

americanpegasus

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Activity: 770

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I'm a big picture guy - I see broad strokes and connections.

What I see is that we have been using the horse and buggy of cryptocurrency since 2008 and it has served us well. However, the combustible engine (of cryptocurrency) was just invented.

Is it perfect? No, but it's light years ahead of what we've been using.

Will it be all that civilization needs, forever and ever? Maybe or maybe not - but it's the next step and it's here now. There's no use arguing about adding small motors to horse carriages when you have the real-deal you can use instead.

brg444

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 504

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: americanpegasus on September 20, 2015, 08:48:21 PM

Quote from: chennan on September 20, 2015, 08:45:02 PM

It's not like Wall Street would want to use monero for any reason because why should they care about the anonymity of the transactions, and I wouldn't really see Wall Street wanting to put it in the market because, well, they want to keep S & P all fiat based.

Pretend you and me want to enter a contract that neither of us can back out of, and that we want to keep totally private until a later time. For example, pretend that we are both mega-entities that believe the price of a certain asset will move soon. I think it will go up, and you think it will go down. We know that if the public knows that we are betting it will change the outcome because the public will take sides.

At a later point, we want the ability to reveal the existence and contents of said contract in its entirety, but also need the security that no one will discover its existence before we choose.

The answer is Monero.

My concern for Monero, one I have always expressed, is the likelihood of a sidechain-type service providing equivalent privacy while leveraging Bitcoin's network effect.

I also sat at the privacy related roundtable during last week's Scaling Bitcoin conference and it was mentioned many time that Monero could face the same scaling issues as Bitcoin and possibly worse given the apparent impossibility to prune the chain.

Harpua

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Spastic dead-eyed hound.

Quote from: RGBKey on September 20, 2015, 09:08:05 PM

Quote from: americanpegasus on September 20, 2015, 08:48:21 PM

Quote from: chennan on September 20, 2015, 08:45:02 PM

It's not like Wall Street would want to use monero for any reason because why should they care about the anonymity of the transactions, and I wouldn't really see Wall Street wanting to put it in the market because, well, they want to keep S & P all fiat based.

Pretend you and me want to enter a contract that neither of us can back out of, and that we want to keep totally private until a later time. For example, pretend that we are both mega-entities that believe the price of a certain asset will move soon. I think it will go up, and you think it will go down. We know that if the public knows that we are betting it will change the outcome because the public will take sides.

At a later point, we want the ability to reveal the existence and contents of said contract in its entirety, but also need the security that no one will discover its existence before we choose.

The answer is Monero.

That may be the answer, but you have to convince these megacorps to use this in the first place.

That is a really interesting way of thinking about that americanpegasus, but yeah like RGBkey said it will be tough to convince the big dawgs to play in the field of monero.

But at the same time I think it's very plausible. Hopefully with all the news about banks now getting into blockchain technology, major players in the world of Wall Street will start deciding what to do in regards of the whole crypto scene.

cjmoles

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Enter bitcoin's competition! They're here!

http://cointelegraph.com/news/115282/9-banking-superpowers-unite-behind-bitcoins-blockchain-tech-op-ed?source=dogechain.info

What does that mean for the future prices of bitcoin?

RGBKey

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rgbkey.github.io/pgp.txt

I agree that it's possible in the next couple years, but for now I don't see people moving away from bitcoin just because bitcoin was where it all started.

letsplayagame

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Quote from: RGBKey on September 20, 2015, 08:45:34 PM

I think it is possible for some of these up-and-comers to be competitors to bitcoin in the future but as of right now I don't see anything.

Quote from: RGBKey on September 20, 2015, 08:45:34 PM

I think it is possible for some of these up-and-comers to be competitors to bitcoin in the future but as of right now I don't see anything.

I like competition as it drives innovation. Some of the coins mentioned in this thread are indeed interesting.

The reason I voted no is because of the language in the OP:

"Is there even a 10% chance that anything could replace bitcoin in the next few years"

Smart contracts and privacy are important. A "few years" is a short time frame.

Eventually some competitor could surpass bitcoin in value because they better address these issues. Maybe bitcoin can utilize sidechains to subvert this threat. I think it will take more than a "few years" to find out. I think there will end up being multiple competitors who end up being very successful even if they never "replace" bitcoin as the market leader.

RGBKey

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rgbkey.github.io/pgp.txt

Quote from: americanpegasus on September 20, 2015, 08:48:21 PM

Quote from: chennan on September 20, 2015, 08:45:02 PM

It's not like Wall Street would want to use monero for any reason because why should they care about the anonymity of the transactions, and I wouldn't really see Wall Street wanting to put it in the market because, well, they want to keep S & P all fiat based.

Pretend you and me want to enter a contract that neither of us can back out of, and that we want to keep totally private until a later time. For example, pretend that we are both mega-entities that believe the price of a certain asset will move soon. I think it will go up, and you think it will go down. We know that if the public knows that we are betting it will change the outcome because the public will take sides.

At a later point, we want the ability to reveal the existence and contents of said contract in its entirety, but also need the security that no one will discover its existence before we choose.

The answer is Monero.

That may be the answer, but you have to convince these megacorps to use this in the first place.

americanpegasus

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Quote from: chennan on September 20, 2015, 08:45:02 PM

It's not like Wall Street would want to use monero for any reason because why should they care about the anonymity of the transactions, and I wouldn't really see Wall Street wanting to put it in the market because, well, they want to keep S & P all fiat based.

Pretend you and me want to enter a contract that neither of us can back out of, and that we want to keep totally private until a later time. For example, pretend that we are both mega-entities that believe the price of a certain asset will move soon. I think it will go up, and you think it will go down. We know that if the public knows that we are betting it will change the outcome because the public will take sides.

At a later point, we want the ability to reveal the existence and contents of said contract in its entirety, but also need the security that no one will discover its existence before we choose.

The answer is Monero.

RGBKey

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rgbkey.github.io/pgp.txt

I think it is possible for some of these up-and-comers to be competitors to bitcoin in the future but as of right now I don't see anything.

chennan

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Quote from: americanpegasus on September 20, 2015, 08:29:54 PM

Quote from: onesalt on June 23, 2011, 06:44:27 PM

I hate to break it to you all, but unfortunately, rampant speculation, the hack attacks and massive price drops have already essentially killed bitcoin from the credibility point of view. No large company will willingly use a currency if using it risks their profitability on the scale bitcoin does.

This was back when bitcoin was a haven for criminal enterprise and crazy speculation rides. It was ludicrous to consider any respectable entity getting involved in Bitcoin and yet... here we are.

Do I think governments or Wall Street will get involved in Monero? Hell fucking yes I do, especially once they realize how much better it is than Bitcoin.

I can definitely see governments getting into Monero due to the ability to be secure in transactions of money to one business/government to another... but do I see it being a big player on Wall Street? Meehhhh... I don't really know about that. It's not like Wall Street would want to use monero for any reason because why should they care about the anonymity of the transactions, and I wouldn't really see Wall Street wanting to put it in the market because, well, they want to keep S & P all fiat based.

dothebeats

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Quote from: killerjoegreece on September 20, 2015, 03:47:43 PM

maybe a coin created by a bank can overtake btc.

If you would ask me, that would never happen unless they shove it forcefully into our mouths. The only thing that would make us shift over some altcoins is if we find a big security loophole in bitcoin's code, which will render it valueless even if it's fixed sooner. Banks can't create a coin with a centralized blockchain. They can have all the control in fiat if they want, but they just can't do it in a cryptographically-based currency.

americanpegasus

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Quote from: BitcoinNewsMagazine on September 20, 2015, 08:16:48 PM

Do you see Wall Street investing in Litecoin or Monero?

I'd ask you the same question about Bitcoin in 2011.

Look at this:

Quote from: onesalt on June 23, 2011, 06:44:27 PM

I hate to break it to you all, but unfortunately, rampant speculation, the hack attacks and massive price drops have already essentially killed bitcoin from the credibility point of view. No large company will willingly use a currency if using it risks their profitability on the scale bitcoin does.

This was back when bitcoin was a haven for criminal enterprise and crazy speculation rides. It was ludicrous to consider any respectable entity getting involved in Bitcoin and yet... here we are.

Do I think governments or Wall Street will get involved in Monero? Hell fucking yes I do, especially once they realize how much better it is than Bitcoin.

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