Topic: Recommendations to store my seed phrase!! (Read 294 times)

I’m seriously consider this solution, can you answer my questions about it:
Is there a way to get the seed phrase fully airgapped on the card and also fully airgapped read the seed again?
What will happen if I need to read my seed in 20 years from now? Do I need a specialized program for that that may not be available on future hardware?

Split you SEED into m parts by using one of n-of-m SSSS scenarios, say 2 of 3 minimum, 3 of 4 better security but more money to spend, and so on.

Put each part separately into tamper-evident bag.

Choose m private safekeeping companies which are not overlapping with each other and located preferably in different geographical areas.

Place your m tamper-evident bags into m secure boxes provided by those companies. Each single  box must hold one tamper-evident bag.

SEED security by your money.

Hello,

Seedphrase storage is a real HOT topic.
While the HW market leader (aka Ledger) keeps asking its users to write down a sheet of paper their 24 words, I think it's a BAD PRACTICE and a non sense.
Rules should be: never write down a sheet of paper your seedphrase and never in plain text.

Take a look at Seedkeeper : https://seedkeeper.io
It's a chipcard equiped with a secure element designed to store your seedphrase securerly.

Access to the chip memory (where is encrypted the seedphrase) is protected by a PIN code (from 4 to 16 chars).

Last but not least, this solution is fully open-source and affordable. You can get multiple chipcard for multiple backup.

I would suggest that you make a "cipher" for your seed words. It doesn't have to be very advanced, or complicated, but the important thing is you alone knows the code to decipher it. This is very very important especially if a large part of your savings are stored in Bitcoin. Many people might say I'm too paranoid, but if you're being your own bank, you need to be a little paranoid to protect your money.

Encrypt it, store it in USB drive and also on several cloud services. In worst case scenario, even if someone gets access to file, without encryption password they won't be able to do anything with it.

Well, never say never. The passphrase that extends the seed needs to be complex enough. A "1234" as a passphrase provides very little in terms of additional security. I remember that Andreas used to recommend a sequence of 5-7 English words. I think Trezor's can't accept more than 8. I guess it's similar with other manufacturers but I didn't test it. 

This is like modifying each seed column by adding a passphrase letter, so that the seed will be longer and if someone else finds this seed, it can never be cracked, unless the original owner knows the clues to unlock it.  Never tried this method, but it looks quite interesting.

Paper is best if it is not exposed to water or moisture, as the paper is easily damaged (depending on the quality of the paper).
Having stainless metal storage seems to be an option and start hiding in a place that cannot be reached or known by others.
At least have more than 1 backup and someone trusted knows it too.

Strong and memorable passwords should be strictly enforced. But most people today use passwords with easy-to-guess combinations, because when they forget one time they will still remember what password they used so there will be successful attempts.
Use strong password combinations that are not easy to guess.
My bank password is even worse, it's just a 6-number sequence.

I would also never store my seed in some kind of online environment, but actually if you do it smart I think yourself be safe. What I would think about there would be to hide the seed in some kind of ducement where nobody would recognize them as seed words. Don’t think it makes a lot of sense to do it but it would pretty much be safe.

Never think of putting that on an online storage or spreadsheets or emails, just don't. You already have the ideas on how to keep it in the best way like having it on a safe vault and have it written on a piece of paper. Mine was written on a piece of paper and that paper came from the original Ledger's provided form. I have my storage like a small pouch or bag that's not too hot in the eyes of many people but it's kept inside where I can bring anytime and anywhere I can. Dog tags are good but don't make it obvious that it's a seed or recovery phrases, there are many people now that's starting to learn about private keys, seeds and recovery phrases.

When it comes to storing a cryptocurrency seed phrase, it's important to prioritize accessibility for the owner while ensuring it remains inaccessible to strangers. However, we must not sacrifice safety for convenience. The storage location must be secure and not susceptible to damage. Portability should also be taken into account, and it's wise to have multiple storage locations to mitigate the risk of any potential damage caused by external factors.

If you already have a safe, sure, why not. Put one copy of it in your safe. If possible, you should make at least two or three copies and store them in separate locations. Maybe you have parents living in some other city or a brother/sister. A copy should only be with someone you absolutely trust. If you don't have someone like that, I would suggest storing 2-3 copies in different places of your home. Alternatively, extend the seed with a passphrase, so that even if someone would try to steal your coins (the people who have a copy of your seed), they wouldn't be able to without the seed extension.   

Don't store anything on USB, CDs/DVD/, email, clouds, or any similar online or digital medium. Physical offline copies only.

Paper is OK and good enough. Metal storage is even better. Some people use washers. Use your imagination and hide the paper/steel plate somewhere the thief won't look or know that something might be hiding there.


If you were able to remember the passphrase, maybe it's not secure enough. You can't change it now, but it's something worth to think about in the future.

It's nice to see that even though you're a beginner, you understand the importance of keeping seed phrases.

There are different ways to save seed phrases: on paper, on metal, on other physical physical materials, or in digital form. Or you can come up with your own unique way. There are no limits to your imagination and creativity here. Consider only the important point that if you make a mistake with the choice, you will lose access to the wallet. Each storage method has both strengths and weaknesses. This must be remembered.

I can recommend (in addition to others' recommendations) that you take a look at this topic - WATERPROOF CRYPTO WALLET CASE for Ledger Nano and Trezor Hardware St.

I think you will find useful information in the discussion that will be useful to keep the seed phrase safe and secure.

OP, I have always suggested in digital back-ups generated from an offline computer that will never be online again, then stored in a brand new USB drive that will never be connected to any compter except the offline computer. Encrypt the contents in nested directories with different passwords as you go down.

It's probably paranoid of me, but it's most of my savings during 2018 - 2019 stored in there.

If you insist in writing it down, you should find/make a simple word cipher. It's the same as encryption.

There are many options you can use to hide the seed phrase of your bitcoin wallet. I highly recommend that you never save it on your computer. It's extremely dangerous to store it in anything connected to the internet because there are too many hackers in the world who are waiting for you to make one mistake so they can gain access to your PC.

Therefore, be cautious about storing your private keys or seed phrase online, on your PCs, or on your phone. In my opinion, the best way is to write it on a piece of paper and hide it somewhere in your home/office or any other private space that only you have access to. I'm sure you're already thinking of many places where you can hide it, so go ahead and do that.

A flash drive could break at any time, and you should not trust it to hold your private keys. Of course, it's an option if you're the only one who can access it, but it's better to store it in a physical location where you have access in real life.

Please don't store anything in digital format or in USB drive.
They can easily get corrupted and your coins would be lost forever if that was your only copy, but it could get stolen much easier and it leaves digital footprints.

Most secure way is not always most convenient, but best option is creating multisig setup, that is more complex for beginner and it's mandatory for larger amount of coins.

Reasonable option for regular people is to create multiple backups of your seed words and hold them in different locations, so if you lose one you could always recover from different location.
Additional step is to create one or more passphrases with few decoy accounts/addresses, and create first backup in paper, second backup and third you can create in stainless steel metal plate or washers.
You can put paper backup in waterproof and/or fireproof bag that would gave you much better recovery in case of some accident related with weather conditions or fire.

Always have at least to separate locations for the seed and also make shure that the seed can not be accidentally or over time be destroyed. What you can also considered is to encrypt the seed or store only parts of the seed in different locations. You can the store the seed in your garden or your walls, there are not limits if the seed is in metal for example.

Silly but I have now had every one I know with a metal seed plate secure it somewhere. If you REALLY get someone in robbing your home there is an infinitesimal chance that they may find your metal seed and take it.
Not because they know what it is, but because they are just grabbing it.
Even if you have it someplace safe, you spouse, your kids, your family that is helping you do something may move it. Not doing anything bad, but just cleaning / reorganizing stuff like that.

Having it screwed to the back of your cabinet / dresser / pantry / whatever just makes it look like you did a hack job repairing something if anyone can even see it without moving other stuff.

-Dave

Any option that is not attractive to eyes, resistant to water, rust, fire, corrosion, and shocks will be appropriate, taking into account the price.
A stainless steel metal plate is a good option that fulfills these conditions. There are some options you can find here --->  https://jlopp.github.io/metal-bitcoin-storage-reviews/, or if you know how to deal with the materials, you can buy a sheet and shape it yourself.

BTW link above Jameson Lopp made tests that are considered harsh in the natural environment, the recommendations he provides are considered good.

Definitely good advice, and it is very important to remember the locations where you have stored them.

I have always followed this recommendation to store my SEED and password in different locations and thought those places would be easy to find for me. But recently, just a few days ago, when I faced the need to restore my ledger wallet, I was horrified to find that I didn't remember the location where my password was hidden. I had the SEED in my hands, but no password.

I found myself on the brink of despair. Nothing was left but to try to restore the password from my memory. Luckily, after several frantic attempts, my efforts succeeded.

Hence the moral, the locations of storage for both the SEED and passphrase must be carved in stone in your memory

Write the mnemonic recovery words carefully numbered on paper. I recommend to document further details like date of creation, purpose, which wallet created the words, more than the default account used, etc. Just about any details that might come handy in the case you need to restore the wallet. (I recommend to practice a desaster recovery before you transfer your real coins to the hardware wallet, valueless Testnet coins are great for that.)

The BitBox02 offers to save your seed on the included microSD card. If you do this, then this microSD card is never allowed to be inserted into any other digital device than the BitBox02 itself (this is important). This seed backup on the microSD card has to be kept as safe as your paper and optional metall backup. (I recommend to add a metall backup as suggested in fillippone's thread that @hosseinimr93 mentioned.)

Never take a digital picture of your physical recovery words backup(s). Your wallet recovery words shall never touch an online digital device. Never!



The BitBox02 supports an optional mnemonic passphrase. But you should only use an optional additional mnemonic passphrase when you fully understand what implications this has. The mnemonic passphrase has to be saved and stored separate from the recovery words. Do not try to only remember it in your brain, this is very likely a recipe for desaster. Reason is that any individual mnemonic passphrase yields a different wallet, the smallest error will give you an empty wallet. It doesn't matter for which coin.