Recovery actions for stolen Bitcoin - page 3.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Parzival on December 05, 2013, 11:10:28 PM

How could any private service force anyone to give the stolen coins back? They could perhaps find the thief like a private detective. But using force would be illegal.

If stealing the coins are not illegal, then getting them back is also not illegal. This hacking / stealing issue is scaring a way a lot of noobs from Bitcoin. In fact, I'd say that if not for the thieves, the market cap of BTC could have easily crossed 30 billion USD by now.

Parzival

newbie

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on December 05, 2013, 11:03:27 PM

For example, look at the recent Sheep Marketplace scam. Some users are tracking down the thief, in order to recover the coins from them. Why can't we create a similar service, which will trace hackers and thieves, to force them to bring back the coins which they have stolen.

How could any private service force anyone to give the stolen coins back? They could perhaps find the thief like a private detective. But using force would be illegal.

bryant.coleman

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Activity: 3766

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Quote from: Cryddit on December 05, 2013, 10:32:54 PM

I don't think that's technically possible unless some central power retains a "master key" that can arbitrarily modify the blockchain. And if some central power does, it's very hard to trust that they won't abuse it. No such key exists for Bitcoin, so unless you change the protocol to use the NIST curves or something, where a backdoor already exists, nobody can do that. And if you proposed such a change, you'd make most owners of Bitcoin really angry.

Further, opinions vary on what constitutes "abuse." You can't really have someone enforcing US law on the blockchain when the coins are circulating worldwide.

No no... I am not talking about modifying the blockchain. I am just talking about a service which can track thieves and get the coins back from them by force.

For example, look at the recent Sheep Marketplace scam. Some users are tracking down the thief, in order to recover the coins from them. Why can't we create a similar service, which will trace hackers and thieves, to force them to bring back the coins which they have stolen.

User705

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First 100% Liquid Stablecoin Backed by Gold

Quote from: rjcesq on December 05, 2013, 03:49:59 PM

Given the continued publicity around stolen Bitcoin, I thought it might be worth examining the possibility of recovery from future possessors. I'd actually like to get into a full law review article on this topic. If any lawyers would like to co-author this paper with me, please get it touch. I've written a preliminary blog post on it at http://rjcesq.com/?p=15

Since you are a lawyer why don't you define legal possession and how that concept can be applied to bitcoin for starters.

Cryddit

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I don't think that's technically possible unless some central power retains a "master key" that can arbitrarily modify the blockchain. And if some central power does, it's very hard to trust that they won't abuse it. No such key exists for Bitcoin, so unless you change the protocol to use the NIST curves or something, where a backdoor already exists, nobody can do that. And if you proposed such a change, you'd make most owners of Bitcoin really angry.

Further, opinions vary on what constitutes "abuse." You can't really have someone enforcing US law on the blockchain when the coins are circulating worldwide.

bryant.coleman

legendary

Activity: 3766

Merit: 1217

We need a (paid) service to recover coins which are stolen through hacking / phishing. Just like the bankers who use the help of recovery agents to get back the amount paid out as loans.

Adrian-x

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Quote from: justusranvier on December 05, 2013, 03:58:01 PM

Bitcoins can not really be stolen.

Private keys can be stolen via unauthorized access to someone's computer (malware).

Contracts can be broken, such as the implicit agreement between an exchange and the customers who deposit funds there.

That's all outside Bitcoin though. Bitcoin is just a timestamping and script processing engine.

Bitcoin has no concept of the validity of a transaction beyond the question of whether all the scripts evaluate correctly.

Legal theories are of limited use here, since they are geographically-limited and Bitcoin is global.

The only effective use of resources in this matter is prevention, not recourse.

I like this.

Effectively the blockchain is a tool that can be used to identify where the unauthorized action took place and possibly link it to an offender. But the Bitcoins are neutral.

justusranvier

legendary

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Bitcoins can not really be stolen.

Private keys can be stolen via unauthorized access to someone's computer (malware).

Contracts can be broken, such as the implicit agreement between an exchange and the customers who deposit funds there.

That's all outside Bitcoin though. Bitcoin is just a timestamping and script processing engine.

Bitcoin has no concept of the validity of a transaction beyond the question of whether all the scripts evaluate correctly.

Legal theories are of limited use here, since they are geographically-limited and Bitcoin is global.

The only effective use of resources in this matter is prevention, not recourse.

rjcesq

newbie

Activity: 35

Merit: 0

Given the continued publicity around stolen Bitcoin, I thought it might be worth examining the possibility of recovery from future possessors. I'd actually like to get into a full law review article on this topic. If any lawyers would like to co-author this paper with me, please get it touch. I've written a preliminary blog post on it at http://rjcesq.com/?p=15

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