Remember last October when BFL said they would ship by the end of the month?

pekv2

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Quote from: pekv2 on May 03, 2013, 10:36:25 AM

Quote from: Newar on May 03, 2013, 10:25:26 AM

Quote from: pekv2 on May 03, 2013, 09:39:17 AM

Quote from: Newar on May 03, 2013, 06:31:17 AM

I think the person to ask is wogaut (sp?).

What?

Last time I checked we got our Singles SC from wogaut ( https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1031266 and also scroll down a little) . Once he receives them from BFL he will transfer them to ciuciu, Therefore wogaut is in contact with BFL, not ciuciu.

Edit: Also: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/closed-pureasic-shipped-92267 I will ask.

hm, ok. and thanks for asking. I had no idea about any of this above. Confusing to me, except for the part someone is cheaper than bfl. dang this is taking forever, for what ever machines we are suppose to get.

Edit:
We are two months off, from being a year away on that post, holy shit.

I dunno what to say, maybe I lost two bitcoins or two shares, if I did, uh well, it will the first. Back then bitcoin I think was around 10-14 a piece or 3-7 a piece. I guess my shares are worth one bitcoin :/ cyrptostocks says, 1 btc= atm 118USD, Lost in btc, gained in USD, literally, I'm basically am empty handed over this because no unit has been received.

glendall

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Buzz App - Spin wheel, farm rewards

Ya it's weird. It's almost like BFL is a scam or something.

Bitcoinorama

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Quote from: tom_o on May 17, 2013, 03:45:38 AM

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on May 16, 2013, 10:29:05 PM

I think a lot of the issue concerning manufacturers stems from recourse down the line, especially BFL's 'lifetime guarantee'.

They can't release working products into the wild unless thu know they are safe and failsafe, otherwise the costs could become astronomical to repair all units prone to failure.

Heating and power being the issue it is, fire safety is a huge issue.

I don't think the DIYers care so much about this, that said I fear the bulk PCB and Avalon chip collaborators haven't thought this issue through greatly either.

EU manufacturers and importers legally have to take into account the WEEE directive, which is a requirement for manufacturing or importing any electrical goods into any EU country.

What about unfinished components?

Q. Are component parts of electrical equipment considered to be EEE?

A. Components cover the range of discrete items that form part of a finished product and thus enable it to work properly, for example transistors, capacitors, diodes or internal wiring. Sub-assemblies are packages of components assembled into discrete units, such as display panels or populated circuit boards. Components and sub-assemblies supplied for further manufacture or assembly are not finished products and are therefore not considered to be EEE in their own right.

So actually you may be ok...certainly the chips, and say Burnin's empty pcb boards, but not 100% on if Burnin's assembled boards with cooling are. I guess though without a power supply they come under 'populated sub-assembly's' and may be ok...?

tom_o

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Quote from: Bitcoinorama on May 16, 2013, 10:29:05 PM

I think a lot of the issue concerning manufacturers stems from recourse down the line, especially BFL's 'lifetime guarantee'.

They can't release working products into the wild unless thu know they are safe and failsafe, otherwise the costs could become astronomical to repair all units prone to failure.

Heating and power being the issue it is, fire safety is a huge issue.

I don't think the DIYers care so much about this, that said I fear the bulk PCB and Avalon chip collaborators haven't thought this issue through greatly either.

EU manufacturers and importers legally have to take into account the WEEE directive, which is a requirement for manufacturing or importing any electrical goods into any EU country.

What about unfinished components?

Bitcoinorama

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Activity: 532

Merit: 500

I think a lot of the issue concerning manufacturers stems from recourse down the line, especially BFL's 'lifetime guarantee'.

They can't release working products into the wild unless thu know they are safe and failsafe, otherwise the costs could become astronomical to repair all units prone to failure.

Heating and power being the issue it is, fire safety is a huge issue.

I don't think the DIYers care so much about this, that said I fear the bulk PCB and Avalon chip collaborators haven't thought this issue through greatly either.

EU manufacturers and importers legally have to take into account the WEEE directive, which is a requirement for manufacturing or importing any electrical goods into any EU country.

dan99

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Just Over Shipping Hasn't / Josh .. Probably he likes to delay the shipping because he hasn't make the Best Product yet liked Roll Royce or Lamborghini but the Toyota and Honda is just as good getting you from point A to point B.

Tehfiend

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This is why Josh is so busy demonizing his detractors and throwing up an amazing smoke screen to confuse the issue. If anybody really looks at the indisputable facts surrounding the delays there are really only 2 conclusions to come to. Either A) BFL is extremely incompetent or B) BFL is blatantly lying. There is no third option where they are the innocent victim of unfortunate circumstances.

buddrulez

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Oh look another bfl fucked us over again thread!

yxt

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remember when BFL announced their fpga single 1.05 GH/s @ 20W shipping in 14? days...
Their poor track record, has begun with the first product.
Liars from the beginning

tom_o

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Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on May 16, 2013, 01:03:39 PM

Quote from: YipYip on May 16, 2013, 07:46:21 AM

Quote from: Frizz23 on May 16, 2013, 03:28:52 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

BFL lost alot of trust from its customers.
This is the last product line they will sell, even they want to release other versions they wont sell enough to make any profit.
They slowely kill their own company with those delays, non relevant (For customers) changes on their hardware.

This is why I am especially concerned!

- They kill their reputation step by step, with every new lie from Josh, with every new delay. They might announce one day a v2.0 ASIC, but no one will ever order from them again.
- They already have our money (we all paid 100% upfront).

-> So what's their incentive to keep the company alive and finally ship their products - and not just take the money and run?

Totally agree .... especially with technology startups it very very easy to say oh well it did not work ..thats business.. It Is almost impossible to prove illegal activity/imbesselement or fraud due to this

Meanwhile Sonny,Josh have been sitting on 400k salary packages ...is a very old story this one..sometimes there is an incentive for failure so that after a company has been closed the IRS/ATO can find it very difficult to go back over the books due to the fact that the entity no longer exists i.e the person that is BFL is dead

Anyway having been working for a few startups in my time & witnessing these type of shenanygins first hand I understand the mentality...once there are skeletons in the cupboards its time to kill that story off fast !!

I'm not sure if Smoothie also mention this, but...

It is illegal to spend customer's pre-sale money until product has been shipped!

Yep as theres a difference between preorders and investors - investors money can be spent and pissed down the drain, but Sonny isn't allowed to solicit investors. See where this is going?

k9quaint

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Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on May 16, 2013, 01:03:39 PM

Quote from: YipYip on May 16, 2013, 07:46:21 AM

Quote from: Frizz23 on May 16, 2013, 03:28:52 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

BFL lost alot of trust from its customers.
This is the last product line they will sell, even they want to release other versions they wont sell enough to make any profit.
They slowely kill their own company with those delays, non relevant (For customers) changes on their hardware.

This is why I am especially concerned!

- They kill their reputation step by step, with every new lie from Josh, with every new delay. They might announce one day a v2.0 ASIC, but no one will ever order from them again.
- They already have our money (we all paid 100% upfront).

-> So what's their incentive to keep the company alive and finally ship their products - and not just take the money and run?

Totally agree .... especially with technology startups it very very easy to say oh well it did not work ..thats business.. It Is almost impossible to prove illegal activity/imbesselement or fraud due to this

Meanwhile Sonny,Josh have been sitting on 400k salary packages ...is a very old story this one..sometimes there is an incentive for failure so that after a company has been closed the IRS/ATO can find it very difficult to go back over the books due to the fact that the entity no longer exists i.e the person that is BFL is dead

Anyway having been working for a few startups in my time & witnessing these type of shenanygins first hand I understand the mentality...once there are skeletons in the cupboards its time to kill that story off fast !!

I'm not sure if Smoothie also mention this, but...

It is illegal to spend customer's pre-sale money until product has been shipped!

I know it is against tax laws in the US to book a customer's pre-sale as revenue until it has shipped. I don't know of any law regarding how pre-order funds/deposits etc can be spent.
Could you provide a citation for this?

Phinnaeus Gage

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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: YipYip on May 16, 2013, 07:46:21 AM

Quote from: Frizz23 on May 16, 2013, 03:28:52 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

BFL lost alot of trust from its customers.
This is the last product line they will sell, even they want to release other versions they wont sell enough to make any profit.
They slowely kill their own company with those delays, non relevant (For customers) changes on their hardware.

This is why I am especially concerned!

- They kill their reputation step by step, with every new lie from Josh, with every new delay. They might announce one day a v2.0 ASIC, but no one will ever order from them again.
- They already have our money (we all paid 100% upfront).

-> So what's their incentive to keep the company alive and finally ship their products - and not just take the money and run?

Totally agree .... especially with technology startups it very very easy to say oh well it did not work ..thats business.. It Is almost impossible to prove illegal activity/imbesselement or fraud due to this

Meanwhile Sonny,Josh have been sitting on 400k salary packages ...is a very old story this one..sometimes there is an incentive for failure so that after a company has been closed the IRS/ATO can find it very difficult to go back over the books due to the fact that the entity no longer exists i.e the person that is BFL is dead

Anyway having been working for a few startups in my time & witnessing these type of shenanygins first hand I understand the mentality...once there are skeletons in the cupboards its time to kill that story off fast !!

I'm not sure if Smoothie also mention this, but...

It is illegal to spend customer's pre-sale money until product has been shipped!

YipYip

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Quote from: Frizz23 on May 16, 2013, 03:28:52 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

BFL lost alot of trust from its customers.
This is the last product line they will sell, even they want to release other versions they wont sell enough to make any profit.
They slowely kill their own company with those delays, non relevant (For customers) changes on their hardware.

This is why I am especially concerned!

- They kill their reputation step by step, with every new lie from Josh, with every new delay. They might announce one day a v2.0 ASIC, but no one will ever order from them again.
- They already have our money (we all paid 100% upfront).

-> So what's their incentive to keep the company alive and finally ship their products - and not just take the money and run?

Totally agree .... especially with technology startups it very very easy to say oh well it did not work ..thats business.. It Is almost impossible to prove illegal activity/imbesselement or fraud due to this

Meanwhile Sonny,Josh have been sitting on 400k salary packages ...is a very old story this one..sometimes there is an incentive for failure so that after a company has been closed the IRS/ATO can find it very difficult to go back over the books due to the fact that the entity no longer exists i.e the person that is BFL is dead

Anyway having been working for a few startups in my time & witnessing these type of shenanygins first hand I understand the mentality...once there are skeletons in the cupboards its time to kill that story off fast !!

SolarSilver

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Quote from: smoothie on May 16, 2013, 06:13:07 AM

i already called it....

Can somebody dig up the picture with the Anti-BFL clowns?

Who's laughing now? :-)

tom_o

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Quote from: smoothie on May 16, 2013, 06:13:07 AM

i already called it....

once they were willing to let a community member from the forums visit their site it screamed DOG AND PONY SHOW.

Sure enough that is what it was.

All visits have really produced nothing at the customer end nor did it prove that BFL actually have what they say they have, beside all the stupid cases for mini rigs that they dont need anymore.

Sorry PG I just had to get credit lol you know me. Tongue

They do need those cases. Where else would they have put all the trade in FPGAs?

emanymton

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Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on May 16, 2013, 05:52:16 AM

asea

I think we need a Phinnaeus Gage appreciation thread, if one doesn't already exist Tongue

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

i already called it....

once they were willing to let a community member from the forums visit their site it screamed DOG AND PONY SHOW.

Sure enough that is what it was.

All visits have really produced nothing at the customer end nor did it prove that BFL actually have what they say they have, beside all the stupid cases for mini rigs that they dont need anymore.

Sorry PG I just had to get credit lol you know me. Tongue

Phinnaeus Gage

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Quote from: freedomno1 on May 16, 2013, 04:44:31 AM

Quote from: mgio on May 15, 2013, 08:34:53 PM

Everyone else will sue BFL to get a refund if BFL refuses. The legal costs and refunds will quickly cause them to go out of business.

This could all happen very suddenly once we cross that difficulty threshold. It's probably in the couple hundred million range, maybe 3 to 500 million?

There won't be enough money to refund everybody. They had running expenses, labor costs, rent, research and development expenses, Josh & Sonny surely got a big piece of the cake too.

If panic, panic first. This is the wholesome lesson a lot of us learnt after the Dotcom crash in 2000, when everybody wanted to get out at the same time.

BFL is on record in stating that all the pre-order money has not been touched and could easily refund every single person if that were to be the case. Besides, it is highly illegal for them to touch any money with the except of those who paid and received product. Seeing that a high percentage of rigs went to non-paying customers, their bank account is still flush. If it is not, then somebody is going back to jail.

Quote

So, where does stuff go wrong? Good question, but the main problem is designing cases and designs before prototyping. There can be significant fluctuation between specs.

With all the brain power BFL has at their disposal, it's safe to assume that they know this, for that's indicative of any product building entity. If they deny knowing this, then they truly are asea.

So why a warehouse full of product they no longer need and shouldn't have ordered in the first place? For the yochdog and My Little Pony show. And why the ovens from eBay showcased near the lobby oppose to being next to the assembling room so that IF they were ever to be fired up, they wouldn't be carting parts from the front of the building to the rear? Answer: same dog and pony show. And why bring a box of fans to CES? You guessed it! The exact same dog and pony show.

(They did have a choice as to where to put the oven room, for remember that they leased this facility with a built-to-suit clause (and a permit was never filed--this is a true fact), and it suited them just fine to put one assembly room at the entrance of the building less than 10 feet from their fancy signage, and the other assembly room toward the read, near the warehouse. Guess which room will never be used for what it looks like its meant to be used for. Also guess where the most logically placement of said room should be.)

Amazingly, with each passing day, BFL makes CedarTec look legitimate.

Investor: I would like to request a refund.
BFL: You know that you would be giving up your queue position don't you?
Inv: I'll take that chance.
BFL: Fine! It's your lost, cocksucker! Your refund queue position number is...

Recording: El número que ha marcado no está en servicio. Pulse uno de ...

I just thought of something else, though probably not important: Everyone of those assemblers probably had to sign a release prior to the filming of BFL's promotional video. I'm pretty sure they were farmed out from some temp service for only one day, otherwise them doing a whole lotta nada if they've been on the payroll since that shoot.

If Sonny is not the CEO as stated on the Wyoming SoS site which names a Chris Vleisides, claiming to be his step dad, then how the hell did a career photographer team up with an engineer in Paris decided to get into the Bitcoin mining business?

I know the answer, but will say it for later.

freedomno1

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Learning the troll avoidance button :)

Quote from: mgio on May 15, 2013, 08:34:53 PM

Everyone else will sue BFL to get a refund if BFL refuses. The legal costs and refunds will quickly cause them to go out of business.

This could all happen very suddenly once we cross that difficulty threshold. It's probably in the couple hundred million range, maybe 3 to 500 million?

There won't be enough money to refund everybody. They had running expenses, labor costs, rent, research and development expenses, Josh & Sonny surely got a big piece of the cake too.

If panic, panic first. This is the wholesome lesson a lot of us learnt after the Dotcom crash in 2000, when everybody wanted to get out at the same time.

[/quote]

And get a Dr evil wallet haha lol gl to bfl'ers may as well settle
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=186007.60;topicseen

PuertoLibre

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Quote from: Schrankwand on May 16, 2013, 04:35:51 AM

Quote from: PuertoLibre on May 16, 2013, 04:33:51 AM

Hey, I have a crazy question.

If BFL said that they got to 500mhz to 1.1Ghz which was roughly...16Gh/s~ per chip when they were still using plastic packaging....

How exactly would the chips have survived if they hadn't switched over to the new packaging?

Me think they knew their chips were probably going to be very very hot....then again, I have no proof of that.

The first shipped out Jalapenos I have heard already killed one or two ventilation fans inside...

I think the Jalapeno casing is inadequately ventilated. Then again, I am no expert on fans or thermal designs. The same issues with overheating happened with FPGA's if I recall correctly.

Topic: Remember last October when BFL said they would ship by the end of the month? (Read 2919 times)