Topic: [RESOLVED] Trust abuse (Read 831 times)

I am glad to see at least one forum dispute between two members is resolved in a peaceful way.
It appears there is still some hope for humanity  

OP I think it's time for locking this topic now.

True, but I ported them to my own mobile alt so that there wasn't any misunderstandings - must have slipped through the cracks I'd say at a guess.

I'm so glad to see that problems can be peacefully resolved if there's communication between the two parties.
That was the civilised way.
There was so many fights here which ended with valuable users leaving the forum, I'm so happy this is not one of those.

Good to see this was resolved!

Probably because you distrusted many mobile alts.

Maybe you should have contacted the guy before you create this thread. He would have corrected his mistake in a second probably. Gaining reputation is hard here and losing it is way too easy.

I can see the dT1 distrust has been removed (and assume the DT2 occurred at the same time)



As I said previously, I can't recall why krogoth was on my distrust list (for many weeks/months from what I can tell) so I have removed that distrust in their alt.

I managed to send krog an email explaining that 2 actions he took cross some very cared for rules here.

His reply was very constructive.

We have removed trust feedbacks left to each other.

Now I am looking to discuss forward with him so we can rectify the default trust abuse.

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We managed to have a phone call that lasted over an hour
Settle and talk of what's in the past once and for all, looking forward to what's in the future

krog told me he removed his double Trust exlusion

Thank you krogoth !

That user has no "Untrusted feedback" at all, because he's Selfscratching anyone who left him positive feedback. That's one of the reasons why I said the Collectibles board has a different interpretation of the Trust system than the rest of the forum.
If I'd do the same, my green Trust score would almost double. But I like being Switzerland more.
I checked the data a long time ago: requiring 2 DT1-inclusions to reach DT2 would reduce the number of users on DT2 by about 50%. I'm still in favour of such a change.

From what I can see six of those seven are only DT2 because one DT1 user has voted all of them in (most don't even have ten votes that the one DT1 user has - ^{who is not the same DT1 user voting the other six in}) - plus a couple of them DT trust each-other.

I mean, asking people to exclude my alt account if I see it getting Trust inclusions.
Simple mention the issues it creates towards bitcointalk if the alt gets into DT, and ask DT people to exclude the alt in regards to that.

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Peaceful solution is found on my end, and isn't really different from what has been going for months already.
I just don't care about this users vents. He could stop breathing and go red to have a whim I just am so far away from that now ...

Now, what I just want is simply the trust abuse to be rectified, as I shouldn't suffer from a double Trust exclusion as both accounts are in the hands of a single user.

Once this is settled, you'll never hear me talking about krog. Someday, I just might say "I told you so..."

If people trust you, that doesn't work. Marlboroza tried that 3 years ago, and he's still stuck at DT2 strength (29).
It might be different with an alt, but there are no guarantees.

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It's probably better to split this topic into 2 topics: one to address the Trust abuse, and another one to discuss what happened when yogg went "missing" (I didn't know that). Now 2 completely different subjects are getting entangled, and if that results in more mud slinging it's not helping. Or, if you don't want to create 2 topics, I suggest to strictly stick to the topic title: Trust abuse.

Hey DaveF,

I really like you too.

I understand your point of view and I'm sorry to hear that.
However for my defense, every individual with an outstanding order from me has been offered refunds as soon as I ran into troubles.
Nobody chose to. Everyone told me they prefer to patient the necessary time to finally get what they have ordered.

Please see this thread : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/coldkey-website-is-down-whats-up-with-this-project-5358870

If you think I have money outstanding with people, please let me prove that I don't.

What krog eludes here is that he started calling me on my GSM in the middle of my night, unnoticed, and bullied me to get around 0.12BTC back.
I returned them to him within 24h (maybe 48h).
And yes, during these calls I told him he is a liar and a hypocrite trickster.

This topic was initially made as this user uses his DT2 alt to double exclude me from DT, which is a Default Trust abuse.
He also artificially pumps his alt trust feedback score.

I will be more than happy to explain myself regarding any accusation if only it was addressed properly, in the way bitcointalk is used to deal with these disputes.

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Rectified with a neutral feedback.
I will go this thread again in a little while and address anything I could have missed.

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I don't know.
If this was me and I'd see my alt getting Trust inclusions, I'd open a thread in Reputation to request members to exclude it.

I have gone on that rant many many times that the collectables and hardware section need their own / separate trust information.
Not going to re-hash it here again here, but: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/do-we-need-1-more-datapoint-for-trust-in-trades-and-only-trades-5154576

As for this thread and what is going on here and now: To the best of my knowledge...one of the people has completed every business dealing and done so fairly and promptly the other one has not.
Sorry yogg I like you, I really do. But, because you went dark with peoples money for that long. I don't trust you. And this just looks like pettiness.

-Dave

This on it's own isn't such a bad thing. My LoyceMobile has been on and off DT2 several times.


This is definitely a big no-go for me. I've seen neutral, and I've even seen negative used for alts (for instance because they're used on a public computer). But leaving positive to yourself is cheating the feedback system.
It's even worse to leave positive feedback to an account created to be used from unsecure connections. Such an account should not be trusted. I'm amazed 7 other DT-members left the same alt positive feedback too:

Then again, the entire Collectibles board seems to have it's own use of the Trust system. I'm not even sure that's a bad thing: unlike the rest of the forum, the Collectibles board has many users who trade without scamming. I get that their view the Trust system is different than users who for instance visit Scam Accusations.


I can understand a negative warning on "unsecure" krogoth, but not for "Default Trust abuser". If anything, it should be a reminder that the account is used from unsecure connections and shouldn't be trusted. But even in that case I think I'd prefer neutral.

That's not enough: If someone included LoyceMobile, my exclusion would give it DT2 strength (0). That means it's still on DT2.

I don't think a bad Trust list should result in negative feedback, but instead you should exclude the user from your Trust list.

Great! Then exclude them.

This data is from theymos' data dump (last Saturday morning).

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Allow me to quote theymos (slightly out of context):
I'm pretty sure both krogothmanhattan and yogg are much safer to trade with than a random person.

Although it seems slightly off-topic: nobody on the whole big internet should be able to touch your mental health. If you don't like someone: ignore them and forget about them. Why torture yourself by giving power to someone you don't know?
Get well

I agree with Timelord2067

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I'm (for now at least) not commenting on the mud slinging: I see unverifiable accusations in both directions.

Interesting case really, I am in the same situation as you. I like them both, I had contact with both without any issues and both have given a lot to the forum and mostly to the collectables.
As well as I agree that having alt in the DT gives you an advantage which i think should not be used like that. Many DT users have alts like LoyceV and LoyceMobile (i think that's his main alt, the rest are bots) but only the main account is on the DT.
I hope you guys find a peaceful solution because as I said I like you both.

I'll keep an eye on the thread, seems that I need to read a bit more on the case.

From my viewpoint - I like both yogg and krog and it saddens me to see such strife between the two.

But no alt should be used to garner merit or trust or be used to exclude or even include anyone into a trust list.

To do so is an abuse - was it intentional? I dont know, but once identified, it should be corrected.

If you guys can't resolve your personal issues than just ignore each other, and create new topic if someone is holding money from other person, don't just make some wage comment without proof.
It's not forbidden to use altaccounts in bitcointalk forum but messing around with DT system to exclude or include anyone with your accounts is not cool.
I would not give anyone negative feedback for this, but owner self declared that he controls both account so it would be good to exclude his second account from ~DT.

Thank you Timelord <3
Appreciate your kind words.

Yes, I'm lucky to team up with owlcatz now, to bring my project Coldkey further to the next level, his help kinda shields me away from what this place can do to you.

However last year .... let's say I'm über pumped to still be there, and do something I love to do.

During my time away, this happened : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/coldkey-website-is-down-whats-up-with-this-project-5358870
It really touched me, I wasn't aware of this thread for some time, and owlcatz mentioned it to me when we were on the phone. (He's the ONLY person from bitcointalk I kept in touch with during these tough times...)

Now I'm doing much better. Initially I just wanted to sort out the double trust exclusion, but heh, krog shown his true self and well this is pretty much it...

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I regret every second I spent teaching BTC tech stuff to that guy.

What ever happened to :


What did I do to deserve this treatment from him ?

When we fell out, I told him he is a liar, and he abides by double standards. Well, seems I'm not quite wrong ....

Hang in there @yogg - don't ever let this place get the better of you.

I am going to clarify this once and for all.

This user contributed big times to my mental health deterioration last year, and he is still not done bullying me.

I use some plugin to replace words with other words in my browser, as just reading "krog" or "krogoth" was triggering anxiety. (i's disabled right now obviously ..)

Last day, I checked the trust list and forgot about the char substitution.
The nicknames ended up being not existent, hence removed from trust list.

Once I noticed it, I included back both users straight away.