This is a 50/50 approach afaik, if loans are accessible by users with collateral there is definitely no restriction on rank, it just gets bad when newbies with no reputation whatsoever start posting loan requests when they know very well they don't qualify for one and won't get it anywhere...
Alternative to the proposed is giving out soft bans to newbies requesting for loans without collateral and if the user is a repeat offender then the nuke can be deployed(permanent Ban).
Btw are we saying newbies can't offer loans if the lending board becomes off limit to them?
Topic: Restrict newbies from posting in the lending board? - page 2. (Read 1075 times)
Another approach to this topic could be to make the whole lending section inaccessible to newbies. Not only for posting, but also for reading. Basically a closed section from member level and up.
Don't know if there is any section in this forum that works that way but in other communities you also have something like an "expert area" which you can only enter when you meet certain criteria.
Don't know if there is any section in this forum that works that way but in other communities you also have something like an "expert area" which you can only enter when you meet certain criteria.
AFAIK there is no section like that on this forum but I know there are similar ones in other forums.
In general it is for a different reason that I know of, it is because controversial things are posted on them that you don't want to be able to find at the click of a search engine.
As there is no such section in this forum, I doubt that it will be implemented, in any case at best we will convince theymos to have the lending section restricted in a similar way to the Serious Discussion one. But that, if he decides to change it, is not going to be tomorrow. He usually takes his time to make changes to the forum.
I am editing this because I just thought of the Investigations section which is closed to the public, but I don't know if it is available to all ranks.
I don't see limiting newbies' ability to post in the lending board as having a big affect on the forum.
It's not big, but it's also another step on a slippery slope. Every time I see someone argue for more restrictions, I appreciate theymos' hands-off approach more.Newbies already have a similar limitation, they cannot post on the Serious Discussion boards. I am all for this.
Having a bunch of newbies who keep asking for a loan without collateral or anything to end up red tagged seems to me a worse effect for them than simply limiting them from posting there until they are at least a jr member.
Another approach to this topic could be to make the whole lending section inaccessible to newbies. Not only for posting, but also for reading. Basically a closed section from member level and up.
Don't know if there is any section in this forum that works that way but in other communities you also have something like an "expert area" which you can only enter when you meet certain criteria.
And about the neg feedback given to newbies asking. I think it's alright since we know these people won't come back anyway. Still there should be a way for them to redeem themselves if they actually become a part of the forum so they can get rid of the red tag.
Blaming Timelord2067 for giving these feedbacks is nonsense. Condoras, Shasan and others also do that, and it's their good right to send a warning to the rest of us members.
I don't see limiting newbies' ability to post in the lending board as having a big affect on the forum.
It's not big, but it's also another step on a slippery slope. Every time I see someone argue for more restrictions, I appreciate theymos' hands-off approach more.Newbies already have a similar limitation, they cannot post on the Serious Discussion boards. I am all for this.
Having a bunch of newbies who keep asking for a loan without collateral or anything to end up red tagged seems to me a worse effect for them than simply limiting them from posting there until they are at least a jr member.
(...)
That's actually quite an interesting take on this issue. You're saying (I think) that instead of making this proposal a forum-wide change, there should be a way for people to set up "post filters" themselves?Just thinking out loud here, but being able to specify a (carefully sanitized) expression (maybe PHP, maybe something custom) to define per-board post filters would be a pretty cool feature!
OP could then go into his "Post Filtering" settings and under "Marketplace -> Lending" could enter an expression like: exclude($memberRank < 2) (where 0 == "Brand New", 1 == "Newbie", 2 == "Jr. Member", etc).
I'd probably use an expression like: exclude($memberPostCount > 50 && $memberEarnedMerits / $memberPostCount < 0.5) to clean up my view of certain boards.
I also like that this feature is in keeping with the forum's mission to maximize freedom: people would retain the ability to post (mostly) wherever they want without too many restrictions, but would also gain the ability to control their experience and (attempt to) make their time spent reading the forum more pleasant.
(...)
That's actually quite an interesting take on this issue. You're saying (I think) that instead of making this proposal a forum-wide change, there should be a way for people to set up "post filters" themselves?Just thinking out loud here, but being able to specify a (carefully sanitized) expression (maybe PHP, maybe something custom) to define per-board post filters would be a pretty cool feature!
OP could then go into his "Post Filtering" settings and under "Marketplace -> Lending" could enter an expression like: exclude($memberRank < 2) (where 0 == "Brand New", 1 == "Newbie", 2 == "Jr. Member", etc).
I'd probably use an expression like: exclude($memberPostCount > 50 && $memberEarnedMerits / $memberPostCount < 0.5) to clean up my view of certain boards.
I also like that this feature is in keeping with the forum's mission to maximize freedom: people would retain the ability to post (mostly) wherever they want without too many restrictions, but would also gain the ability to control their experience and (attempt to) make their time spent reading the forum more pleasant.
Edit: There's an "era mismatch" bug in my second example expression: either $memberEarnedMerits should be changed to $memberTotalMerits (i.e. $memberEarnedMerits + $memberAirdroppedMerits), or $memberPostCount should be replaced with $memberPostCountNewEra (or something like that, you get my point).
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Thanks to OP @DireWolfM14 for bringing this topic to infornt of us. Not only the lending topic but there are many other topics where the newbies are spamming whether they understand it or not, and which is very annoying to us many times. And I think that by newbies it will happen, that's normal.
And so I think it is necessary to add a setting that not only prevents newbies from spamming in the Lending topic but also restricts them in all places where they can spam. And the first thing that can be done for this is that, for example, we have a setting in the PM option where we can prevent our inbox from newbies PMing.
I think such an option should be there for op of topic where he can restrict newbies as per his wish.
And so I think it is necessary to add a setting that not only prevents newbies from spamming in the Lending topic but also restricts them in all places where they can spam. And the first thing that can be done for this is that, for example, we have a setting in the PM option where we can prevent our inbox from newbies PMing.
I think such an option should be there for op of topic where he can restrict newbies as per his wish.
Issues of life and life unending problems know no ranks, creed or age. Though I find it amusing whenever I stumble on posts by newbies asking for loans here (as I know most of them aren't genuine), I still believe it's within their limit to exercise that right to ask. I like how theymos allows newbies breathing space here. I'm sure he knows what he's doing with that. We all were once noobs, newbies, greenhorns, novices and amateurs like them before we got to where we're today. I think the greater responsibility and discretion should lie with the veterans or high ranked members who are going to be lending to these newbies seeking loans. They should be able to sieve through to know those who are genuine and those who aren't and do the needful with such discernment.
Its very frustrating when newbies go and ask for a loan I agree, but its not fair that they get negative feedback one second after and left out in the cold.
I also don't support seing a newbie without having any experience about the forum to jump into the lending section to demand for loan, for crying out loud this is not a lending platform, it's bitcoin discussion community, we have to consider a number of newbies that register each day without staying on the forum and left, should such people be granted access to take a loan where they are not been established?
We all are under satoshi on this forum and this forum is for everyone no mater what rank people have.
No segregation here and don't make it look like any, if you think you're interested in loan, stay for a while to attain a particular rank and understand the forum and read the rules, get familiar with the boards and read also the loan requirements before applying if eligible, though tagging them may not be the absolute solution but putting them on ignore list is a better way.
I'm not a big fan of implementing new restrictions in a forum where newbies can't post images anymore, find it hard to use some functionalities because of time limitations like the one in the search option, can't wear an avatar and can't post in certain sections like Ivory Tower, Archival or Serious Discussion. Don't take me wrong, I think that these restrictions are there for a reason, but it is also true that they are an entry barrier for many.
If newbies were restricted from posting in the lending board, what would be the difference between that and also restricting them from participating in other sections inside Marketplace, or in the Alternate cryptocurrencies board? If the goal is to avoid scams, wouldn't it be more beneficial to forbid the newbies to post scam ICO ANNs or fraudulent services? IMO, no: that way we would be judging the just for sinners.
I consider that a large part of the active members of the forum are quite direct and critical to some extent. If something smells like a scam, one or another will point it out. I personally find it better to control that in a case by case basis rather than to prefer draconian measures like the proposed one.
If newbies were restricted from posting in the lending board, what would be the difference between that and also restricting them from participating in other sections inside Marketplace, or in the Alternate cryptocurrencies board? If the goal is to avoid scams, wouldn't it be more beneficial to forbid the newbies to post scam ICO ANNs or fraudulent services? IMO, no: that way we would be judging the just for sinners.
I consider that a large part of the active members of the forum are quite direct and critical to some extent. If something smells like a scam, one or another will point it out. I personally find it better to control that in a case by case basis rather than to prefer draconian measures like the proposed one.
That might be because you have already stated your opposition ?
I don't want to comment on this matter. I don't know if you get me wrong. But I did not mean your feedback was inaccurate. I said it might look like the feedback is inaccurate at first impression. But, if you are regular there, You will understand the frustration. I have also seen many new members who apply for loans only after creating an account. I don't understand on what basis they apply and on what basis the lender will grant them the loan.
They apply for no collateral loan and their cause is Trust me, bro! They are not familiar with this forum, for sure. It's not like they don't know their loan request will be rejected. They are just trying their luck, knowing their loan request won't be granted. 
I am not arguing whether it's the correct or incorrect use of feedback.
That might be because you have already stated your opposition ?
. Oh, I just found it was Timelord2067 who tagged some newbies for asking for no collateral loans.
For Instance, It looks like this is not the correct use of the feedback system
For Instance, It looks like this is not the correct use of the feedback system
Can I send you a PM, please?
You can removed newbies posting in lending board actually with your board topic, its not has reason accepted newbies account apply for loan because their account not has values yet. Many newbies account try to apply loan not only with your loan board only but also I saw they are applying with another loan board. I don't know what are the values of their account and brave for applying loan with higher amount and I saw with this user swiftxi not only apply loan in one board but try with another board. First applying loan have rejected but he tried on another loan board without think the reason first applying have been reject.
Like I said in my previous post, policy governing the lending thread should be reviewed if there is any already existing so as to avoid further spamming by newbies. It is worrisome that most of these newbies do not read at all they just hop in and start applying for loan without any collateral since the loan is void of collateral. Well, I think this time it should be clearly and boldly written for easy view for them to see so that no one would cry to have been victimized by anybody when it happens.
With this, the possibility of spamming the thread might likely reduce a bit and every one would take caution while playing by the rules.
I like Zilon's suggestion, but yeah, the mods are up to their elbows already, I don't think asking to pile on any more reports is the right way to handle it.
I respect your opinion. But I am sorry. I did not like it. 
. Mods can't be online 24/7 and look into the lending board. They have to check all boards equally. I always wondered how Mods always check two posts in a row from the same user and merge them. Do they have any panel where the system automatically filters those posts? If not, they are doing hard work already. This single task needs a lot of time to complete it.Incorrect.
I was the third or fourth person to mark the trust feedback pages on each occasion.
Please, Get your facts straight instead of being an echo chamber.
I was the third or fourth person to mark the trust feedback pages on each occasion.
Please, Get your facts straight instead of being an echo chamber.
I wrote what I saw. I did not check everyone's trust page. I have checked your trust page and noticed you had left feedback to newbies asking for no collateral loan. I am not arguing whether it's the correct or incorrect use of feedback.
It's not like someone will get a loan just by applying for it. If a new member applies for a loan, the other member of the forum who is interested in giving the loan must consider whether the loan can be given to the new member or on what basis the loan should be given to the new member. But the problem is that this threat is spammed a lot by new members, so to avoid this spamming, it won't hurt to make a rule to prevent new members from posting in this section.
Like I said in my previous post, policy governing the lending thread should be reviewed if there is any already existing so as to avoid further spamming by newbies. It is worrisome that most of these newbies do not read at all they just hop in and start applying for loan without any collateral since the loan is void of collateral. Well, I think this time it should be clearly and boldly written for easy view for them to see so that no one would cry to have been victimized by anybody when it happens.
With this, the possibility of spamming the thread might likely reduce a bit and every one would take caution while playing by the rules.
. Oh, I just found it was Timelord2067 who tagged some newbies for asking for no collateral loans.
For Instance, It looks like this is not the correct use of the feedback system. But I understand his frustration.
For Instance, It looks like this is not the correct use of the feedback system. But I understand his frustration.
Incorrect.
I was the third or fourth person to mark the trust feedback pages on each occasion.
Please, Get your facts straight instead of being an echo chamber.
It's not like someone will get a loan just by applying for it. If a new member applies for a loan, the other member of the forum who is interested in giving the loan must consider whether the loan can be given to the new member or on what basis the loan should be given to the new member. But the problem is that this threat is spammed a lot by new members, so to avoid this spamming, it won't hurt to make a rule to prevent new members from posting in this section.
I like Zilon's suggestion, but yeah, the mods are up to their elbows already, I don't think asking to pile on any more reports is the right way to handle it. If the mods are expected to automatically delete any newbie's request for an unsecured loan, then it just shouldn't be allowed in the first place.
Which give me an idea: @theymos, is there a way to add a splash page for low-ranked accounts before they can make a post in certain boards? Maybe just a little warning that low-ranked accounts asking for unsecured loans can be damaging to the account's health. A link to the sticky board discussing collateral would also be helpful. Maybe that would be enough to dissuade the legit newbies from doing something dumb, and any that get through have been sufficiently warned.
Have you ever seen a newbie Lender offer loans to others?
There have been a few over the years that I've been here and active in the lending board. Most have tapered off their activity, but there is one recent newbie lender who's currently active. To me it looks like he's harvesting other people's KYC docs, but the jury is still out on that one.
Instead of completely restricting newbies from posting in the lending sub board, their posts containing loan request should be deleted instead that is users can report newbies requesting loans to the board mod and the mod deletes that posts.
It's not possible for Mods to keep tracking a user and check how many times he created a thread or posted on a specific topic and asked for a loan. Also, It's not possible for Mods to respond quickly or instantly to delete such posts. It will increase their workload. Moreover, It's nothing compared to bounty boards. But, the community members care about this section because it is a severe section where people look for urgent money, which sometimes helps them survive. Trolls in such sections will ruin it. Quote
The restriction might come if the user keep making such posts. My reason is so that if a newbie has any valid contribution to make in the lending sub board their rank shouldn't be a hinderance.
Have you ever seen a newbie Lender offer loans to others? I always see newbie accounts ask for loans without any forum history. They do not intend to return the amount if they get the loan. They will lose nothing if they don't repay the loan amount. Also, It's not possible to catch them if someone runs away with crypto money. If a newbie has a valid contribution, earning ten merits for his contribution is not very hard. Jump to: