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Topic: Rimbit to start looking for Corporate Investors after 2 years solo (Read 3365 times)

member
Activity: 392
Merit: 10
in my opinion Rimbit is very simple, but I am a little doubtful if there is no mining, will RImbit be strong. I think mining needs to prevent theft and liquidity of products.
newbie
Activity: 2
Merit: 0
You are correct on both fronts.  Mark is a scam artist.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
enforcing worldwide spread is not easy, and perhaps not doable.
They tried doing it with porn in the 90's, file sharing in 2000's and so on...
and servers kept over heating and got fried up Smiley

As I explained the key distinction upthread, those are free markets because they are decentralized and there is no significant asymmetry of information which makes it otherwise.

It pisses me off when readers waste my expensive time by ignoring what I already wrote twice in this thread. This makes three times. Please readers don't make me teach this again by writing another post which ignores my prior points.


I still dont understand why your'e calling waves a scam only cuz it made an ico (like everyone now).
Its devs are legit, real names with real work behind them.
So they thought charles and kushti are friends which will support them, and were wrong, apologized and moved on.
everyone got their asses covered legaly ofc..
so if you think all ico's are scams, you got lots of work now not just on waves bro Smiley

Please clearify. tnx

1. I already provided the link to the thread two or three times in this thread, which explains that ICOs sold to non-accredited USA investors are ostensibly illegal.

I hate ICOs by now for other reasons:

2. They contribute to the mainstream thinking that crypto-currency is a scam and thus we will have great difficulty getting CC widely adopted if don't put a stop to these scams.

3. They extract capital to a few scammers, which could be better uses to build our real ecosystems that are not vaporware and have real decentralized designs, such as Bitcoin and Monero.

4. They prey on the ignorance of n00b speculators, thus can never be a free market.

5. They can never attain adoption because they destroy the Nash equilibrium and decentralization of the ecosystem:

As an example: I can show that dash is an oligarchy, whether intentional or not, due to the way their paynode scheme works. These systems are designed to work trustlessly, so any hiccups (intentional or not) should be invalidated by the design, not left-up to the good or bad intentions of those who are engaged with it.

did the monero wrote that fact about infinite supply in their ann Huh   if i was an investard in monero i would feel cheated if it isnt

No one can fork Monero without the support of the decentralized miners. The distinction from the Dash masternode scam, is that a masternode is staked only once with DRK (Dash tokens) and earns 50+% ROI per annum forever after for the largest holders of Dash tokens, thus further centralizing the coin meaning there is a centralized oligarchy which the investors are relying on for their future expecation of profits which afaics fulfills the Howey test for what is an investment security that is regulated by the Securities Act. A decentralized PoW miner is constantly expending on electricity in a competitive free market. Owning a lot of Monero doesn't give you any leverage as a miner.

New post to better articulate why permissioned ledger, closed entopy systems likely have no value:

The problem with Emunie, as I talked about in the IOTA thread, is that any system that doesn't have permanent coin turnover via mining, removes mining completely, or puts some type of abstraction layer between mining and block reward (as in the case of IOTA), is a permissioned ledger.  People got too caught up in trying to improve on consensus mechanisms and forgot what actually constitutes a decentralized currency in the first place.

When Maxwell said he "proved mathematically that Bitcoin couldn't exist" and then it did exist, it was because he didn't take open entropy systems into account.  He already knew stuff like NXT or Emunie could exist, but nobody actually considered them to be decentralized.  They're distributed but not decentralized.  Basically stocks that come from a central authority and then the shareholders attempt to form a nash equilibrium to...siphon fees from other shareholders in a zero sum game because there is no nash equilibrium to be had by outsiders adopting a closed entropy system in the first place...

Take for example the real world use case of a nash equilbrium in finance.  There's many rival nations on earth and they're all competing in currency wars, manipulating, devaluing, etc.  They would all be better off with an undisputed unit of account that the other can't tamper with for trade.  In order to adopt said unit, it would have to be a permissionless system that each nation has access to where one of the group isn't suspected to have an enormous advantage over the others, otherwise they would all just say no.

This is why gold was utilized at all.  Yea, some territories had more than others, but nobody actually knew what was under the ground at the time.  Everyone just agreed it was scarce, valuable, and nobody really had a monopoly on it.  There are really no circumstances where people on an individual level or nation-state level can come together to form any kind of nash equilibrium in a closed entropy system.  The market is cornered by design, and for value to increase, others need to willingly submit to the equivalent of an extortion scheme.  The only time systems like that have value at all is when governments use coercion to force them onto people.

6. Because they are not decentralized and rely on expectation of profits based on the performance of a core group, ICOs turn what should be a competition for creating the best technology into a fist fucking fest of ad hominem and political games:

Let's psychoanalyze those want to troll me with a thread like this. Actually I have no censorship motivated objection about making a thread about me (I wish so much, it was possible to do something great without attaining any personal fame), it just feels really stupid because I (the idealist in me) think the technology is more important than the person, which is one of the main reasons I hate vaporware ICOs.

This thread serves mainly to deflect attention away from Dash's instamine scam.

+1 for conscious reason.

The subconscious reason this thread exists is the psychological phenomenon that it is better to destroy everyone, than to fail alone.

"I dropped my ice cream in the mud, so now I am throwing mud on your ice cream so we are the same, because God hates us equally".

This is what socialism built. Equality is prosperity, because fairness is the uniformity of nature's Gaussian distribution. Equality is a human right! Didn't you know that!

They would rather waste the time of important coders whose time would be better spent coding a solution for humanity, so as to satisfy their inability to accept their mistakes and jealousy.

7. ICOs have less liquidity because they are not widely distributed and due to #5:

you can read my observations here.

Interesting post.

The salient quote is of course:

Why litecoin? Liquidity. These guys own 5 and 6 digits amount of BTC. They need massive liquidity to increase their holdings by any significant degree. And as such litecoin has been a blessing. Will history repeat itself?

I've had that in my mind for a loooong time. Liquidity is absolutely necessary for the design, marketing, and distribution of crypto-currency, if you want to succeed.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
Heh, this BS is still going?
Anyone can again explain what the hell is rimbit? What sauce u would use on that?

Quoted.
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1039
Heh, this BS is still going?
Anyone can again explain what the hell is rimbit? What sauce u would use on that?
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
I am guessing that Rimbit has argued to Indiegogo that they are giving contributors tokens in a "value transfer system" and thus arguing those are not investment securities. I would like to refute that as follows.

ICO is not illegal, it's just crowdfunding. If you do some projections about future profits this is illegal.
Actually when you do ICO you're selling a product - token in a value transfer system.

That is sort of what I originally thought, but then I realized I was wrong.

The Supreme Court has said it will look past all obfuscations to the economic reality of whether the n00b investors were basing their expectations of future profit on the future actions of the centralized party issuing the tokens and developing the enterprise which the investors are investing in.

Realize I am doing you a big favor. Cancel the ICO immediately and keep yourself out of trouble. Stay focused on being a developer and not involve yourself in this legal tarpit.

Where is the "value transfer system"? I see only tokens sold to speculators hoping to make a profit on the rise in exchange price on a few centralized exchanges populated only by speculators. Afaik, the Waves product isn't even ready to ship to actual users of a "value transfer system", how could it be a value transfer system.

The tokens were not distributed for use as a currency. There is no significant use of the tokens for exchanging value for any purpose other than speculation on the price of the tokens.

One way to make it even less dubious, is don't sell the tokens to the adopters of the "value transfer system" so that they don't need to be speculators to justify obtaining the tokens.



I've started reading your post (the first page), and the related one with the votes.

I think I understand what you mean by illegal, correct me if im wrong,
You say that ICO's can be illegal if their tokens are ecosystem related or not, and if their buying price is significant or not.
actually I voted for option 4, stating its illegal only if its a significant cost without use in the coin's ecosystem.

But since this entire market is still unregulated, and maybe it cant be.. yet.
So if there's no law about it. its neither legal nor illegal.

Thanks and have a nice weekend btw Wink

Thanks agreed happy we cooled it down. Same to you.

Your understanding appears to be entirely off in an incorrect direction. It doesn't have anything to do with the coin's ecosystem afaics. Rather it all hinges on whether the n00b investors are basing their expectations of future profit on the future actions of a centralized entity (i.e. the issuers of the ICO and the developers). That is what 'security' means, i.e the centralized entity is 'securing' your future profit.

Note I originally started that linked discussion thinking that one could do an ICO as long as they did not use that raised money in the enterprise of making the project ongoing and if they gave up managerial control. 2112 was more knowledgeable about the law and was steering me to the Howey test so I could learn that I was incorrect.

So I actually started out ignorant. As I studied the issue more in depth, I realized that just about any ICO sold to "unsophisticated, non-accredited" (<-- legal terms with definitions) USA investors is ostensibly illegal and the issuers of the ICO (and potentially also the accomplice promoters) are subject to SEC action even if they are foreign entities.

The test that is applied to determine whether an investment vehicle is a regulated investment security under USA law, is known as the Supreme Court's Howey test.

In the thread I linked for you, the requirements of the test are discussed in great detail. I suggest reading the entire thread so you don't miss any of the nuanced points.

sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
The [Dash] dev hasn't f*cked off to the Bahamas to enjoy his "takings". He's taken god knows how much personal abuse, character malignment and professional attacks over everything from the launch to his coding.

Which he completely deserves for his ostensibly illegal activities, which btw may take the coin to 0 if FinCEN and/or SEC action begins against him and his accomplice pumpers here in this forum.

He is a disgrace to crypto-currency and is helping to advance the popular idea that crypto-currency is only for nefarious activities. Which is hurting all of us, even those who didn't "invest" in DRK.

Erik Voorhees barely escaped prison by returning all the money.

And you are a disgrace for claiming we are a disgrace for pointing this out.

If this forum can't do something about allowing ostensibly illegal promotion or illegal unregistered investment scams such as the cases Dash and Rimbit which are obvious, then perhaps it is time to replace this forum. I am all for freedom-of-speech, when it is legal.

And of course he hasn't disappeared because the masternode lucrative scam is ongoing. Ditto Rimbit continues to sell more 100% premined tokens on Indiegogo in violation of Indiegogo's Prohibited Perks policy even after Indiegogo acknowledged my message alerting them to this over 2 weeks ago.

WTF has this world turned into a scam paradise where no one respects rudimentary consumer protection laws any more  Huh



Nice to know we're all in the same disgraceful boat.

Legal and illegal are extremely relative terms, depending one's geographical coordinates.

These Dash accomplice criminal mindsets promote jurisdictional gaming of common sense law, but they will fail because they are entirely (objectively) unethical:

As I had explained to AlexGR upthread, objective ethics is not playing in zero sum games when a non-zero sum game is available that expands the pie for everyone. I realize he hails from some Communist culture where they had to steal from each other, so he was taught to not have ethics.


I don't know what any particular country does, but the idea of countries claiming jurisdiction over those doing business with their own residents, even if the business is located elsewhere is not unique to the US. It is very widespread if not nearly universal. Most countries would not stand up to the US over this not only because the US is powerful and gets away with laws like FACTA and strongarming everyone into MLATs, but just because they want the same powers for themselves. US companies have been on the receiving end here in several high profile cases and probably many smaller ones.

Any nation with rudimentary securities regulation will have issues with crypto-scams offering a quasi-legal boiler-room prospectus like this one:

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html


sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
I would give it 2 awards

1, Most Obvious Crypto Scam, 100% premine and sell it all on Idiegogo, profits to Mark Karlson
2, Most Deluded Supporters, think a cheap POS clone can beat BTC!
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
And unfortunately Indiegogo hasn't replied further and appears to be doing nothing about this. More people have been allowed to contribute to the campaign since I reported the Prohibited Perks to Indiegogo.

Indiegogo is now knowingly facilitating this investment fraud.

So many days have transpired and Indiegogo has not stopped this campaign which continues to receive new contributions which are ostensibly being offered rimbit tokens in exchange:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-better-bitcoin-will-you-wait-till-its-to-late/x/13712033#/funders

The last response I had from Rimbit was dated April 3:

Brian Sunday at 08:19
Hi Shelby,

Thank you for sharing your concern with us. At this time, the campaign is under review to ensure that it adheres to our Terms of Use (http://www.indiegogo.com/about/terms).

So what happens now? We will include the information you have provided along with all other information at our disposal in our review of the campaign. In some cases, we will contact the campaign owner to have them edit their campaign and it will remain on our platform. If the project doesn't follow our rules, we may remove the campaign. We may also restrict the campaign owner's future activities on Indiegogo.

To protect our users' privacy, we're unable to share the action we take. At Indiegogo, we take the trust and safety of our community very seriously, and we greatly appreciate your patience and understanding throughout this review process. To learn more about Indiegogo’s Trust & Safety effort, please visit: www.indiegogo.com/trust

Please note that you do not need to contact us again. Doing so would create a new ticket and prolong the process. Thank you again for taking the time to get in touch with us and for helping to keep Indiegogo a safe and secure platform.

Regards,

Brian
Trust and Safety
full member
Activity: 560
Merit: 101
Rimbit is prob the biggest Joke in the cryptocurrency world!!! as well as one of the biggest SCAM's . make a cheap clone POS shitcoin , premine it all and then sell it to ignorant fools who dont have a clue about Crypto's who believe the spiel that its the revolutionary new money of the world and will overthrow Bitcoin in no time!!! What a joke, at the end of the day its a crap POS coin with absolutely nothing going for it that the dev premined and sold at a rip off price!!! There are countless other POS coins that werent distributed as an outright scam and actually have innovation and amazing features, why on earth would anyone be interested in Rimjobs in any way. Its such a joke!!! And the fanbois on there lol, if you want a great laugh go check out their forum and videos, its highly entertaining shit!!! Smiley
That's always just predicting, but indeed, these days its carefull to watch...
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
Rimbit is prob the biggest Joke in the cryptocurrency world!!! as well as one of the biggest SCAM's . make a cheap clone POS shitcoin , premine it all and then sell it to ignorant fools who dont have a clue about Crypto's who believe the spiel that its the revolutionary new money of the world and will overthrow Bitcoin in no time!!! What a joke, at the end of the day its a crap POS coin with absolutely nothing going for it that the dev premined and sold at a rip off price!!! There are countless other POS coins that werent distributed as an outright scam and actually have innovation and amazing features, why on earth would anyone be interested in Rimjobs in any way. Its such a joke!!! And the fanbois on there lol, if you want a great laugh go check out their forum and videos, its highly entertaining shit!!! Smiley

And unfortunately Indiegogo hasn't replied further and appears to be doing nothing about this. More people have been allowed to contribute to the campaign since I reported the Prohibited Perks to Indiegogo.

Indiegogo is now knowingly facilitating this investment fraud.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
I don't know if you can see this if you are not signed in as me? This is the support ticket for my complaint about selling Prohibited Perks:

https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/requests/902962?flash_digest=b83dc17225807b06f0e829ba0177d8a327e55445

Quote from: myself
I presume Indiegogo is aware of the sort of mess that violation of the Prohibited Perks policy could cause for Indiegogo's merchant account and relationship with the credit card companies and/or other repudiable payment providers such as Paypal:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14382292

I am not a hater, but I am just being pragmatic here about the law, societal norms, and financial risk:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14405364

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14273014
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
How soon can I start investing or raising funds?

We’re still at the early stages of exploring the best way to bring equity crowdfunding to Indiegogo. If you’re interested, you can stay in the loop to receive updates – we’d love for you to join the conversation and to get your insight.


Who can start an equity crowdfunding project?

Your venture or project needs to be incorporated in the United States to start an equity crowdfunding project. Refer to the newly passed Title IV of the JOBS Act for two different tiers of projects you can start.
 

How hard is it to get started?

Since this is a regulated process, there is some legwork to be done. But fear not, we will support and help you seamlessly kick off and manage your project.
newbie
Activity: 40
Merit: 0
Having studied economics at university I know what currency is.

So tell us mr. accomplice scammer, which key properties of a currency does the Rimbit scam have?

Well you are getting silly now Mr Troll (I have assumed you are a Mr but apologies to all men if you are not).

Tell you what.  There are many definitions of what currency is and rather than me pick one for you to go "bah humbug" to why do you not pick one (fairly well know and accepted would be sensible) and then we can see what coins do or not fit the description. 



UkBob, sorry to disagree... But a real man don't do what he does. It is a well known fact in psychology that when you are weak, you need to make other look weak so you can be as tall and strong as they are. This being said, Rimbit has a lot to offer to new investors, and that's what makes some afraid that their world is going to change. Not necessarily disapear (as they think, so the aggressivity), but change. New coins like Rimbit will rise up, that's a fact. For now, it's the first offering new ways of thinking, and it is hard to swallow for those whom really believe that things are ok and they don't need to be change. But changes are needed, and Rimbit is there to show the way. Plain and simple. I am guilty of bein a rookie here... So far, so good for a warm welcoming! So, for you other newbies here, I welcome you to go to the Rimbit forum and have a men to men talk about Rimbit, and I am sure we'll also welcome you correctly as well. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1039
I aggree.

Premine is bulshit..

If coins not mined then no trust in the system.

Thats why bitcoin is so succesfull.
Satoshi didnt wanna be like rimbit
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262

What do you think is wrong with premined coins?

99% of the scams in altcoin scene has been with premine/ico/pos/instamine coins.

Do you know why distribution through POW mining is fair? Because it allows outsiders to get coins WITHOUT BUYING THEM FROM A CURRENT HOLDER.

Premine 100% ? What a fucking joke. Do you seriously think there is any future to this setup.
DEV can take as much as he wants. He can say coins has been distributed across 100 000 wallets (but he will say people) but that doesn't mean jack shit if he owns 80% of those wallets.

And BTW, why the name? Do you know what a RIMJOB is??

I posted this in RimBit ann but  I think it will be deleted since it's moderated, so I'm posting here too.
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1039
Hey rimbit dev/owner etc ....i would like to put my hands on that script which was clone of localbitcoins.

Can you help me with this one? Will pay you with bitcoins Grin
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
Mark, since you have thus revealed you lied about your education while hiding behind a sockpuppet newbie account, given that there is only one definition that is relevant to "crypto-currency", I will share the definition which the Rimbit scam does not fulfill.

currency
   widely accepted unit-of-exchange

Now if I had written "crypto-asset", then a reasonably liquid store-of-value would be an acceptable property, which the Rimbit scam also does not fulfill.
member
Activity: 80
Merit: 10
I like Ethereum and Rimbit
Having studied economics at university I know what currency is.

So tell us mr. accomplice scammer, which key properties of a currency does the Rimbit scam have?

Well you are getting silly now Mr Troll (I have assumed you are a Mr but apologies to all men if you are not).

Tell you what.  There are many definitions of what currency is and rather than me pick one for you to go "bah humbug" to why do you not pick one (fairly well know and accepted would be sensible) and then we can see what coins do or not fit the description. 

sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
Having studied economics at university I know what currency is.

So tell us mr. accomplice scammer, which key properties of a currency does the Rimbit scam have?
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