Topic: Ripple SCAM: You *do not* own BTC or USD, you own debt that will collapse (Read 5330 times)

Considering that there are already 100 billion in existence, I find that to be highly overpriced. When the market gets flooded with these, they are liable to decrease in value.

100 billion divided by 11 million bitcoins = 9090 times the amount of XRP as bitcions in existence. Take this into account, and even if they were equivalently valued in terms of utility, they should still be worth 9090 less per unit. Bitcions are valued at $130/ coin now, so 130/9090 = $0.0143 per XRP, which means you should be able to buy 70 XRP for a dollar, even if XRP are now considered to be equivalent in utility as bitcoins! Already XRP are being valued higher than bitcoin...

If XRP has no value, I'll gladly take it off you. XRP is worth 52 XRP/$1 at the current exchange rate.

ad.1 you forgot to add XRP has no value so you cant transfer any value using it. Calculation is simple 0 * value = 0
And since they are handing xrp for free there is no way for it to have value on its own.

How much personal lending have you done? There is a big difference between a bank, paypal, and Joes brother who lives down the street.

Ive made several personal loans ranging from a few hundred to several thousands. All I can say about the loaning business, is its best left to banks.

If you want to make a habit of giving out tons of credit in interest free personal loans, go right ahead. Enjoy.

The rest of us will move forward.

Ha ha you can have your Debt.

you can eat your Debt .

You can suck a monkey off with your Debt .

Most people spend their lives trying to get out of debt , then these idiots want to push this shit on us here?

what is this?  the AOL net?

please FUCK OFF WITH RIPPLE . we/I don't care. (just speaking strictly for myself here ; ) )


**note I’m happy to have a long conversation with anyone about why there is a distinct possibility that many people will DIE, in a terrible deflationary spiral, all caused by a Debt money system.

i don't know that much about Ripple , except to know that it is NOTrelevant, to this system of open design.

Thank you.

XRP just has fancy UI and no value. Dump it and stop discussing it. Let it die.

You don't need to convert to XRP to make use of the rippling system, separate trust lines exist for different currencies. I'm not sure you can even grant trust in XRP. It is inferior to straight XRP for payments,  but it could be useful for community credit, something I'm skeptical about.

BTC would be converted to XRP and Ripple will select a path for your transaction based on trust lines.

If you want to send BTC from a Bitcoin wallet to another Bitcoin wallet then there's really no need for Ripple. If you want to do anything else with money, you might soon get some good use out of Ripple.

Question -- so am I correct in thinking that Ripple allows you to send XRP alone through the system, while it does NOT mediate sending BTC through the system, but only BTC IOUs that have to be sent separately (off-network) through the transacting gateways?

It will be a distributed exchange, and therefore much more resistant to DDoS or government shutdowns than Mt Gox.


Traditional electronic fiat currencies are IOUs too, you have to trust that your bank will redeem your balance in real dollars. An electronic ledger is no more than a record, it cannot enforce settlement in a real world currency. When you trade BTC for USD on Mt Gox you are effectively trading Mt Gox issued BTC IOUs for Mt Gox issued USD IOUs.

One of the interesting things about Ripple is that it allows you to specify explicit trust lines. All nodes you can reach through these lines can pay you and you can pay them, and you don't need any banks or governments to do it. Each party settles with his or her direct neighbours periodically, in whatever form is convenient. As adoption increases, you'd have to settle less and less frequently, because more and more companies would accept payment through Ripple.

I expect Ripple to become more reliable, resilient, anonymous and liquid than Mt Gox.


Just playing around with it for now. If I'm going to buy any new BTC, it's likely going to be through Ripple. I won't hold large amounts of XRP or IOUs in the Ripple system until after the code is open sourced, gateways have proven their creditworthiness and many others than OpenCoin are running validators.

Thank you for the detailed response. I'm going to sound repetitive, and I hope I don't frustrate you, but I'm still trying to put my finger on a reason I should want to use ripple.

In terms of buying bitcoins; it sounds like it's just about the same user experience, maybe a little more complicated. I guess I'll stick to mtgox.

And what need have I for IOUs when I can just as easily pay/receive real value in the form of bitcoins? It seems like an IOU is only useful when you're broke, or you've mismanaged your cash flows and need to borrow. And in that case, why not just borrow some bitcoins directly?

Are you using ripple for any kind of commerce / financial activity? What for?

With Ripple, you can transfer two kinds of things: Ripples (XRP) and IOUs in any real or virtual currency. The system keeps perfect track of those, but to make payments you have to find someone who is willing to accept them in payment. This is the same as with Bitcoin. Trading in real world currencies is made easier by the existence of gateways like Bitstamp. You can send USD to Bitstamp in a number of ways and you can then send that money to Ripple in the form of Bitstamp-flavoured USD IOUs. Those IOUs in turn can be sent back to be redeemed for real USD by Bitstamp. People who trust that Bitstamp will redeem its IOUs for real dollars, will then accept the IOUs as payment. They indicate that trust by granting Bitstamp a certain credit limit within the Ripple system.

The same thing works without gateways: if you want to make a payment to someone you don't know, then Ripple will try to find a path between you and the receiver in the trust graph. If that person is a friend of a a friend of a friend, and if credit limits and balances along the path allow it, the transfer of IOUs will be made. Each person can settle with their direct neighbours at the end of the month, or whenever they please. In fact, this uses the exact same system as in the example with the gateway, the gateway is merely acting as a professional "friend" of both you and the receiver, thus making you friends of a friend.

To avoid getting scammed, a gateway will not reciprocate the trust and will only issue IOUs for money it has already received from you. It depends on its reputation to get people to buy its IOUs. And since the Ripple system has a built-in exchange, complete with order book, you can even trade IOUs denominated in the same real or virtual currency but issued by different gateways, or even just check the exchange rate to see whether people in the network believe the gateway is credit worthy.

You have to get used to the idea before you really get it, but it's perfectly natural. And it turns out it's no more than a digital form of the system that was used in the 17th and 18th centuries: Ripple, or Bills of Exchange 2.0.

Ripple is made up of two parts really:

1) the XRP (ripple units) part
It fails because it is 100% premined and is under a 51% attack from the founders, but there is the advantage of faster transaction times. All it needs is PoW and no premining, however the Ripple developers do not wish to release the source code for others to contribute and make forks of it.

2) the exchange part
Where you can exchange debt in exchange for other debt or XRPs. It works as long as no gateway collapses.

Can you explain more? So ripple is like Mtgox? I can wire cash to a bank somewhere and get BTCs in return?

To exchange between BTC and fiat currencies. It's the killer app for Bitcoin enthusiasts.

It's useful for this, lol https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=147155.20

Can somebody explain to me why I want to use ripple? Or is it to early to be practically useful in any way yet?

I know why I like to use BTC: I'm in control of my own money, it can't be inflated, cheap transactions (though I understand it might not stay that way), international transactions, trust-free system.

In fact, bitcoin is pretty close to everything I want out of money. Why do I want to use ripple, again?

And does anyone use ripple for anything practical yet?

Point out the "misinformation" please.

I don't mind people posting their opinion on what they don't like about Ripple, but please stop posting misinformation. It gives people like me who are trying to figure out what the hell Ripple is a headache.

I don't waste time with people who pull the troll card. Learn what a troll actually is.