Topic: Ripple SCAM: You *do not* own BTC or USD, you own debt that will collapse - page 3. (Read 5330 times)

No I read your posts and I do not believe it is a good solution.   The "mt gox" problem is NOT a problem.   Mt Gox is a band aid.   As soon as bitcoin becomes more prevalent, an exchange will list it and you will have real adults trading it and real time feeds from even yahoo to keep your exchange rates correct.   I have no need of ripple.    To me, it is a liability, not an asset to the future of bitcoin.

I'm failing to grasp the whole idea, is there a thread that explains in detail how ripple works? the official ripple site is very vague on the explanation

Ripple makes Bitcoins more valuable since it creates a distributed Bitcoin exchange and solves the "MtGox problem." Or were you not aware?

I think the whole theory behind it is silly.   It is pointless.   I think we should focus on making BTC mainstream and not waste time on things that seem similar to ponzis.

The OP should stop bad-mouthing Ripple. He either doesn't understand it, or he is simply scare-mongering, perhaps falsely worried that his stash of BTC will become worthless. Ripple will be great for Bitcoin, but XRP will also be a competitor. Great, because competition is good. And the IOU system is actually what allows a liquid market for exchanging between crypto and real currencies to exist even in the face of government repression. If everyone is paid in fiat and needs to make payments in fiat but wants to store value in crypto, then their social network will provide a mechanism for turning wages into crypto and crypto into fiat when needed.

To the OP and other posters critical of Ripple: please do you homework first before you start throwing around insults and accusations.

Every gateway will be governed by different regulatory policies. MtGox has to follow AML/KYC rules. A gateway operating in a rogue country might not have to follow any rules. But think about this - if a bank becomes a gateway, it would have to follow the banking rules of the country. This means you could have a checking account which is FDIC insured, which is also Ripple-enabled. It would add functionality to something you are already used to using (a checking account at a bank).

As is stated in the wiki, you absolutely must be aware of the risks when extending trust to a gateway. If you don't like that a gateway is not governed by strict regulations, don't extend trust to it.

I think it is, I'm a new member and just stumbled into this thread, I think awareness should be raised for a potential enormous scam

OP: Is it really necessary to start the same thread over and over again?

Ripple SCAM: You *do not* own BTC or USD, you own debt that will collapse

Ripple Scam: Centralized, Centrally Issued, Bribes exchanges, Closed Source, Tax

Report Ripple & ScamCoin Inc to FTC for False Advertising

OpenCoin Inc Will Debase Ripples For Wealth Transfer To Themselves

Why Ripple is a bad idea.

So what sort of regulations must a ripple gateway have compared to a legal bank in a country? None. Case closed.

Like I said people can invent their earnings and con people with no problem. In Bitcoin I can't con you that I have 20 million Bitcoins, it's easy to confirm. In Ripple I can save I have 20 billion USD and some people may believe me as there is no way to confirm it. If people think Bitcoin scams are a problem Ripple is going to magnify them 100x.

As is stated in the Ripple wiki, only trust issuers whose IOUs feel that you can depend on. I certainly won't be extending YOU any trust for your "manface coins."


I agree. That's why in Ripple, you set the trust relationship manually for every entity. More than likely, people will have just one trust line to the most convenient gateway. Keep in mind that people already do this now - they trust their bank with their checking account and/or savings account.

If you don't trust anyone, you can simply hold your assets in Bitcoins, XRPs (if you trust the Ripple source code), and/or precious metals.

Except everyone and anyone is a mtgox and can invent their earnings in Ripple.

Just because one major bitcoin player (mtgox) takes a lot of trust doesn't mean everyone should have that level of trust. Bitcoinica, Pirate, Mybitcoin, etc are going to look like dice in the alley operations compared to what is possible in Ripple if it takes off.

When you deposit money at MtGox, you are given USD IOUs. When you buy Bitcoins using those IOUs on the MtGox exchange, you are given BTC IOUs. When you redeem your USD or BTC IOUs at MtGox, you get USD or BTC. Ripple functions identically.

I agree. The fact these guys have centralized it and created so much currency for themselves screams of get rich quick. Not to mention a digital currency system based around human trust in tenuous at best.

No, they want a monopoly on it and if they release the source than people will fork it and make it better.  They want to retain control.  If this prospect sits uneasy with you, it should.

There is no other reason for them to keep it closed source right now.  They paid good money for it, and they want to make money off of it, and if it's forked, their little plan of eventually selling 20 billion XRP that they kept for themselves is in trouble.  Ripple is a get-rich-quick scheme for the creators.  It should be obvious at this point.

Imagine what people would be saying if satoshi premined 1 mil BTC before he released the client.  This is the situation that Ripple is in, and this is why Ripple is clearly a scam.


If you like the idea of Ripple, then please, create your own version if it.  It obviously has utility.  But don't use this corporate crap.  We need a community effort, not a bunch of business people trying to make a quick buck.

and what are they trying to accomplish by doing that? security through obscurity? bitcoin is still beta, but it's open source as well.

For good and obvious reasons until their out of beta and stable.

The whole point of this implementation of Ripple is decentralization. Once it's out of beta OpenCoin won't control the servers anymore and it will be as decetralised as bitcoin.

This is not true in the way you state it. They made 100 billion XPR. They gave away some large percent to the founders; some large percent they'll keep for future use; and the lions share they'll continue to give away. If you don't like that (I'm not pleased with some of the details of the give-away so far) then either don't use the Ripple system or just use the amount of XRP you got from the give-away and never buy or sell any. The give-away on this forum started with ~50,000 XRP and is now down to ~20,000XRP. A life supply of XRP is probably 1000 to 2000 for most people. Personally I don't give a shit what the price of XRP is and if the founders or OpenCoin makes money with it, as long as the system remains cheap enough for new users. (And the XRP needed for reserves and transactions can be lowered by consensus of the network if XRP somehow becomes expensive, the network would want to do that as a network too expensive to use benefits no one).

This is probably your only valid point. The whole idea of money, fiat, currency exchange, loans, interest rates, inflation, deflation, etc is too complicated for most people. Yet somehow they use money. Some people can't manage Paypal; Ripple may not be for them.

And yet bitcoin is doing fine with not everyone understanding it. A lot of Ripple is simpler, more like Paypal, once you start to use it. Once clients evolve it should be easier. It would be easy for someone to write a client that hides all the details and just gives a "send grandma money" button (okay, a bit more complicated, but you get the idea). The current UI has problems but I get the impression a lot more effort is being expended (rightly so) on the back-end rather than the client at this time.

There's a lot of reasons why I don't like ripple.

• It's closed source
  
• It's too centralised
• The founders have hoarded 100 billion XRP
• Too complicated

If people find Bitcoin too complicated they haven't got a hope in hell of wrapping their head around Ripple.

I don't see this "domino" effect taking place, at least not anymore chance than currently exists. Bitstamp could be issuing IOUs in ripple and secretly using specie on the side. However, they don't need ripple to do this. They could have less USD or BTC than they have in customer accounts, hoping there will never be a run.

In fact, wouldn't ripple help prevent this? Their ripple address balance is public information, customer account balances are not. If I tally their ripple address info and it comes to $4.3 billion, I might suspect something and take delivery of my USD and BTC.

For that matter, neither would banks. Your bank balance is the amount your bank owes you. Your balance at MtGox is the amount they owe you. Gift certificates are merchandise owed. Pre-paid credit cards are an IOU. Etc.

I've heard you repeat that false analogy before. You clearly have no clue about Ripple. The original classic.ripplepay.com has been functioning successfully for years. If you don't like it then don't use. The rest of us will move forward.