ROR - page 3. | Bitcointalksearch.org

darkmule

legendary

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Quote from: inBitweTrust on November 27, 2014, 08:08:04 AM

W/U is clearly making a calculated attack because of a perceived threat.

That's not necessarily the case. Nothing is even on legal letterhead yet. Noticing a Facebook post has all the hallmarks of some intern or other schlub doing busywork hunting down shit on social media and then notifying it with little to no more effort to it than that. A lot of paralegals or new lawyers do just this. A DMCA notifier need have no particular qualifications.

(Confession: I've done this myself though I hope I did a better job.)

I wouldn't take a mere takedown notification as meaning much if anything without more.

inBitweTrust

hero member

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Quote from: FattyMcButterpants on November 27, 2014, 08:38:05 AM

Do you have any examples of this? Filing a DCMA complaint would only draw attention to themselves and the picture in question. If they were making an "attack" because of bitcoin's threat then they are doing it wrong because their "attack" is drawing attention to the comparison between bitcoin and WU

Yes, but you are ignoring the fact that the lawyers are getting paid for defending W/U trademark regardless of the Barbara Streisand effect or whether or not it is a wise tactical decision for W/U as a whole.

There are too many examples to mention but here is a prominent one :

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088931/

No permission was granted , and Coca Cola was unaware of this project but decided to not sue or attack Dusan Makavejev because the movie didn't show Coca cola in a completely negative light.

FattyMcButterpants

sr. member

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Quote from: inBitweTrust on November 27, 2014, 08:08:04 AM

Quote from: FattyMcButterpants on November 27, 2014, 07:53:54 AM

Quote from: Buffer Overflow on November 27, 2014, 03:24:46 AM

Quote from: brian_23452 on November 27, 2014, 02:52:41 AM

As stated before, it has nothing to do with them being afraid of bitcoin

Would we of had such hand wringing from them if the picture had shone WU in a good light?

Probably. If it was shown in a better light then the satire could have left out some important disclaimer or condition of using their service and as a result it would add liability to Western Union.

There is a long history of examples where corporations don't waste their time defending their trademarks/copyrights because it isn't worth their time or they benefit from the advertising.

W/U is clearly making a calculated attack because of a perceived threat.

Do you have any examples of this? Filing a DCMA complaint would only draw attention to themselves and the picture in question. If they were making an "attack" because of bitcoin's threat then they are doing it wrong because their "attack" is drawing attention to the comparison between bitcoin and WU

inBitweTrust

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 501

Quote from: FattyMcButterpants on November 27, 2014, 07:53:54 AM

Quote from: Buffer Overflow on November 27, 2014, 03:24:46 AM

Quote from: brian_23452 on November 27, 2014, 02:52:41 AM

As stated before, it has nothing to do with them being afraid of bitcoin

Would we of had such hand wringing from them if the picture had shone WU in a good light?

Probably. If it was shown in a better light then the satire could have left out some important disclaimer or condition of using their service and as a result it would add liability to Western Union.

There is a long history of examples where corporations don't waste their time defending their trademarks/copyrights because it isn't worth their time or they benefit from the advertising.

W/U is clearly making a calculated attack because of a perceived threat.

FattyMcButterpants

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: Buffer Overflow on November 27, 2014, 03:24:46 AM

Quote from: brian_23452 on November 27, 2014, 02:52:41 AM

As stated before, it has nothing to do with them being afraid of bitcoin

Would we of had such hand wringing from them if the picture had shone WU in a good light?

Probably. If it was shown in a better light then the satire could have left out some important disclaimer or condition of using their service and as a result it would add liability to Western Union.

Buffer Overflow

legendary

Activity: 1652

Merit: 1016

Quote from: brian_23452 on November 27, 2014, 02:52:41 AM

As stated before, it has nothing to do with them being afraid of bitcoin

Would we of had such hand wringing from them if the picture had shone WU in a good light?

darkmule

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1005

Quote from: turvarya on November 27, 2014, 03:08:41 AM

I would be very careful. I am not sure, about US-Laws, but something like that, can end in a hefty fine for you.
Don't take a unnecessary risk until you have at least talked to a lawyer. Don't take posts on this forum as legal advise.

This. Consider contacting the Electronic Frontier Foundation, which even if they might not necessarily give you free legal advice, has been known to hook people up with free/cheap legal counsel, usually experienced people. Just having any response you make to their posturing come on legal letterhead can make even corporate bullies think twice.

turvarya

hero member

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Quote from: token_dave on November 27, 2014, 02:18:29 AM

Here's the story behind this.

I posted the picture on my large bitcoin facebook page. www.facebook.com/BITCOlN

Two days after posting, I received an email from facebook saying that Western Union Holdings, Inc filed a DMCA claim against me, citing their ownership of the Western Union *trademark* (strangely, not their copyright on the ad), and that Facebook decided to remove the content.

I went ahead and filed a counter-claim, where I had to swear that I believe Facebook wrongfully granted their takedown request. Now, Western Union has 10 days to either file a federal court order, or Facebook will reinstate the image. I see it as a win/win situation. If western Union actually sues me for posting the image, it will come back to bite them 1000x over in negative PR alone. Plus, I'm not the original content creator, and the image should be legally protected as "comparative advertising".

I would be very careful. I am not sure, about US-Laws, but something like that, can end in a hefty fine for you.
Don't take a unnecessary risk until you have at least talked to a lawyer. Don't take posts on this forum as legal advise.

darkmule

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1005

Quote from: brian_23452 on November 27, 2014, 02:52:41 AM

And you will lose. US courts are *very* generous when it comes to defending trademarks, and clearly you are using a trademarked image (not sure why you and everyone else keeps calling it copyright, this has nothing to do with copyrights).

Truthful comparative advertising even using a competitor's trademark is entirely valid if done correctly.

(This one presents a few issues that are not necessarily fatal, but it should not present the WU logo more prominently than the Bitcoin logo or otherwise look as if it might be suggesting the competing product is actually endorsed by the competitor.)

ETA: Actually they're the same size but the whitespace on the right side for Bitcoin is a) unsightly but b) more importantly, makes it look less prominent. Should probably be surrounded by some color itself. Also, it doesn't note that the Western Union trademark belongs to (duh) Western Union.

darkmule

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1005

Quote from: Keyser Soze on November 26, 2014, 11:18:14 AM

Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on November 26, 2014, 11:09:07 AM

crazy that such a big company cares about that shit Cheesy

Large companies like this go after small firms all the time for things (ads, logos, ect) that may even be remotely similar.

Comparison advertising has a long history and is completely legitimate.

brian_23452

sr. member

Activity: 350

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Quote from: token_dave on November 27, 2014, 02:18:29 AM

Here's the story behind this.

I posted the picture on my large bitcoin facebook page. www.facebook.com/BITCOlN

Two days after posting, I received an email from facebook saying that Western Union Holdings, Inc filed a DMCA claim against me, citing their ownership of the Western Union *trademark* (strangely, not their copyright on the ad), and that Facebook decided to remove the content.

I went ahead and filed a counter-claim, where I had to swear that I believe Facebook wrongfully granted their takedown request. Now, Western Union has 10 days to either file a federal court order, or Facebook will reinstate the image. I see it as a win/win situation. If western Union actually sues me for posting the image, it will come back to bite them 1000x over in negative PR alone. Plus, I'm not the original content creator, and the image should be legally protected as "comparative advertising".

And you will lose. US courts are *very* generous when it comes to defending trademarks, and clearly you are using a trademarked image (not sure why you and everyone else keeps calling it copyright, this has nothing to do with copyrights).

As stated before, it has nothing to do with them being afraid of bitcoin; if it can be demonstrated in court that they knew you were using their trademarked image and they did not oppose your use, you could then claim ownership of the trademark for yourself.

token_dave

newbie

Activity: 1

Merit: 0

Here's the story behind this.

I posted the picture on my large bitcoin facebook page. www.facebook.com/BITCOlN

Two days after posting, I received an email from facebook saying that Western Union Holdings, Inc filed a DMCA claim against me, citing their ownership of the Western Union *trademark* (strangely, not their copyright on the ad), and that Facebook decided to remove the content.

I went ahead and filed a counter-claim, where I had to swear that I believe Facebook wrongfully granted their takedown request. Now, Western Union has 10 days to either file a federal court order, or Facebook will reinstate the image. I see it as a win/win situation. If western Union actually sues me for posting the image, it will come back to bite them 1000x over in negative PR alone. Plus, I'm not the original content creator, and the image should be legally protected as "comparative advertising".

bornil267645

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

AltoCenter.com

I am sure that i saw an article somewhere that said that since Bitcoin went viral, WU money transfer has been down by 3%. That's a lot given the amount of money they transfer.

Wardrick

legendary

Activity: 1022

Merit: 1000

I doubt Western Union sees Bitcoin as a threat because people use Western Union to buy Bitcoin.

inBitweTrust

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 501

Quote from: Cablez on November 26, 2014, 09:40:16 PM

I am still having trouble seeing where a copyright infringement has occurred. Can someone help me out or is this just an abusive DMCA takedown?

Its a clear case of fair use or parody, and thus an abusive DMCA takedown.

The CEO of bitcoin may get sued so we better start collecting for his legal fund. Wink

Cablez

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1000

I owe my soul to the Bitcoin code...

I am still having trouble seeing where a copyright infringement has occurred. Can someone help me out or is this just an abusive DMCA takedown?

inBitweTrust

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 501

Quote from: wickedgoodtrader on November 26, 2014, 02:21:20 PM

You guys forgot to put the 1-2% it costs to buy the BTC then the 1-2% to sell it! You also forgot to put the hoops you have to jump through to buy bitcoin. Much tougher then filling out a form at WU.

Once I get my hands on Bitcoin why the hell would I convert it back to fiat? I get paid in Bitcoin, I pay employees in Bitcoin, and I buy items directly with bitcoin which allows me to save up to 15% off of anything on Amazon.

Quote from: wickedgoodtrader on November 26, 2014, 02:21:20 PM

You also forgot to put the hoops you have to jump through to buy bitcoin. Much tougher then filling out a form at WU.

Buying BTC is trivial, and simply involves clicking a button. The setup and authorization process for circle/coinbase is much easier and intuitive than W/U as well.

lontivero

full member

Activity: 164

Merit: 126

Amazing times are coming

jajaja I love it!

Great job.

tss

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

haha. that's great. maybe some media attention over this.

TheLoser

member

Activity: 462

Merit: 10

They got nothing else to do or maybe they both hire the same person or company who made the ads.

Topic: ROR - page 3. (Read 4972 times)