Topic: rpietila Altcoin Observer - page 150. (Read 387552 times)

Quote from: btc-mike on July 22, 2014, 10:46:25 PM

The database is not released onto the main net after three weeks of dev work. At what point does it become vaporware?

I don't really know what vaporware means in the context of an open process where the coding work is transparent.

Certainly when a vendor claims something to be delivered "later" and the work is entirely opaque (meaning it is impossible to independently assess when if ever the delivery will occur) that can be described as vaporware.

It is not a delivered feature, on that much we agree.

Agree

Quote from: aminorex on July 22, 2014, 11:43:31 PM

No the QoS system is needed to deal with any size blockchain if people are using residential or other limited-bandwitch connections they don't want oversaturated, even temporarily.

Most cryptocurrency users probably fall into the "using residential or other limited-bandwitch" category, but I cannot think of any other cryptocurrency that needs QoS. I am not well read on this topic so I may be wrong.

They all do. Some implement implicitly. There are merits to both implict and explicit implementation of i/o scheduling. (QoS is a bit of a misnomer, AFAICT.)

Let me rephrase, "I cannot think of any other cryptocurrency that ~~needs~~ requires QoS.

If I am not mistaken, you are a development team member of one.

As I am not a developer at all, you are mistaken,

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Quote from: urubu on July 22, 2014, 09:42:28 PM

Now that ethereum is up for sale, does anyone have any insight into the value as an investment?

Probably just holding BTC will yield better gains.

Can't imagine the "ether" being so in demand that you'd ever get your investment back. People can just mine it, and if there are going to be demand for ether (other than speculation), it won't be immediately at the beginning, it will be later when mining has already diluted the presale investments.

It's still at least 6 months away, could be 12 months. Nxt, NEM, BlackHalo, Syscoin, etc are already here, and who knows what they can do before ethereum even goes live. Bitcoin itself might skyrocket, and that doesn't mean ethereum's value is tied to bitcoin's.

Apparently a lot of people disagree though, as after only few hours, there have already been 1900 BTC locked away for 6-12 months for ether.

smooth

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Quote from: btc-mike on July 22, 2014, 11:36:26 PM

Most cryptocurrency users probably fall into the "using residential or other limited-bandwitch" category, but I cannot think of any other cryptocurrency that needs QoS. I am not well read on this topic so I may be wrong.

Let's exclude coins that have virtually no usage. They essentially exist only on exchanges as speculative pump-and-dump vehicles.

When it comes to the small subset of coins that actually have users, they do run into this. I think we can agree that not having any users/usage is not a good way to address the problem.

The XMR blockchain size is not extraordinary as popular coins go, especially extrapolated forward. The DOGE blockchain, for example, is around 6 GB (I'm not sure if that is the on-disk size or the raw block size, but I suspect the latter, meaning the corresponding XMR size today would be about 800 MB). If you download that or more importantly upload it to other users who are downloading it, you will have major bandwidth issues.

It is a frequent issue for Bitcoin for that matter: http://www.google.com/#q=bitcoin+qos+site:bitcointalk.org

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Quote from: btc-mike on July 22, 2014, 11:36:26 PM

I cannot think of any other cryptocurrency that needs QoS.

They all do. Some implement implicitly. There are merits to both implict and explicit implementation of i/o scheduling. (QoS is a bit of a misnomer, AFAICT.)

If I am not mistaken, you are a development team member of one.

btc-mike

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Quote from: btc-mike on July 22, 2014, 10:46:25 PM

The database is not released onto the main net after three weeks of dev work. At what point does it become vaporware?

I don't really know what vaporware means in the context of an open process where the coding work is transparent.

Certainly when a vendor claims something to be delivered "later" and the work is entirely opaque (meaning it is impossible to independently assess when if ever the delivery will occur) that can be described as vaporware.

It is not a delivered feature, on that much we agree.

Agree

No the QoS system is needed to deal with any size blockchain if people are using residential or other limited-bandwitch connections they don't want oversaturated, even temporarily.

Most cryptocurrency users probably fall into the "using residential or other limited-bandwitch" category, but I cannot think of any other cryptocurrency that needs QoS. I am not well read on this topic so I may be wrong.

aminorex

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Quote from: btc-mike on July 22, 2014, 10:46:25 PM

... the QoS system is needed to deal with any size blockchain if people are using ... limited-bandwitch connections ...

I tried to sign up for an "unlimited bandwith" plan, but the selection was....slim.

smooth

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The database is not released onto the main net after three weeks of dev work. At what point does it become vaporware?

I don't really know what vaporware means in the context of an open process where the coding work is transparent.

Certainly when a vendor claims something to be delivered "later" and the work is entirely opaque (meaning it is impossible to independently assess when if ever the delivery will occur) that can be described as vaporware.

It is not a delivered feature, on that much we agree.

Quote

The QoS system is only need to deal with the huge blockchain.

No the QoS system is needed to deal with any size blockchain if people are using residential or other limited-bandwitch connections they don't want oversaturated, even temporarily.

aminorex

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Quote from: urubu on July 22, 2014, 09:42:28 PM

Now that ethereum is up for sale, does anyone have any insight into the value as an investment?

You're investing the the community building and creative power of the team. To answer the question, you must know the team, and how their skills and incentives synergize to create leverable value. I don't. I have not read the stuff. My intuition is that Ethereum is NXT + XCP with a contract language vaguely similar to Simon P-J's 2000 paper. The investment potential of NXT may be similar, on many levels, although PoW emission means it's probably more robust.

I think all these systems are immature, and inevitably supplanted by a successor. I'm not sure which generation/feature-set will provide a stable platform, and I don't care to bet on a guess. For more I would have to read the stuff. If I'm wrong about something fundamental, I probably should read the stuff, because writing it off may have been a mistake. Otherwise, I saved time.

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Quote from: fluffypony on July 22, 2014, 06:43:47 PM

Quote from: rethink-your-strategy on July 22, 2014, 06:22:41 PM

until released open-source, it is vaporware.

It has been open source the whole time. The ongoing work can be tracked on github.

sorry, i didn't realize it was in the master already.

We announced it as part of the Monero Missive 10 days ago: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7847156. The Github branch was linked to in that announcement.

Same goes for proper daemonisation/service architecture of the daemon and rpcwallet: https://github.com/mikezackles/bitmonero/tree/daemonize_wip

Same goes for the QoS system to reduce bandwidth hammering: https://github.com/rfree2monero/bitmonero/tree/dev-rfree

All of those have been mentioned in the Missives and the repos have been linked. There's no point in hiding the code. The more eyes on it, the better.

The database is not released onto the main net after three weeks of dev work. At what point does it become vaporware?

The QoS system is only need to deal with the huge blockchain.

What enhancements does the proper daemonisation/service architecture provide?

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Now that ethereum is up for sale, does anyone have any insight into the value as an investment?

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Quote from: btc-mike on July 22, 2014, 03:09:56 PM

Quote from: aminorex on July 22, 2014, 02:06:48 PM

Quote from: binaryFate on July 22, 2014, 02:04:31 PM

This said, the blockchain will grow larger than bitcoin one, by a linear factor. Price to "pay" for unlinkability and untraceability.

For now. I'm pretty sure there will be a much smaller chain with adapted cryptonote before too long.

Boolberry was designed from the beginning with smaller blockchain in mind. The ring signatures can easily be cut off reducing the size by 50%.

Show me the mathematical proof that this can be done without reducing the anonymity set. Like maybe publish a fucking whitepaper or something instead of talking out your ass.

(a) Civility is underrated as a conversation starter and mechanism for asking someone else to do something. Wink

(b) I think this is worthwhile; I assume that Zoidberg and btc-mike already have a presentation on this in the planning stage, because it's the other major advance of Boolberry over the base CryptoNote code, but if they don't, I'll add my vote to the list asking for it as well;

(c) I believe that the consequence is not a threat to anonymity, but closer to the limited aspect of centralization imposed by any blockchain checkpointing mechanism. The discussion about this for bitcoin was lengthy, and I won't repeat it all here - https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Checkpoint_Lockin

Just as in bitcoin, using a checkpoint about, e.g., the state of the blockchain 100 days ago is an "out-of-band" mechanism of locking in the old consensus blockchain. Probably not an issue in practice.

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until released open-source, it is vaporware.

It has been open source the whole time. The ongoing work can be tracked on github.

sorry, i didn't realize it was in the master already.

We announced it as part of the Monero Missive 10 days ago: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7847156. The Github branch was linked to in that announcement.

Same goes for proper daemonisation/service architecture of the daemon and rpcwallet: https://github.com/mikezackles/bitmonero/tree/daemonize_wip

Same goes for the QoS system to reduce bandwidth hammering: https://github.com/rfree2monero/bitmonero/tree/dev-rfree

All of those have been mentioned in the Missives and the repos have been linked. There's no point in hiding the code. The more eyes on it, the better.

smooth

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until released open-source, it is vaporware.

It has been open source the whole time. The ongoing work can be tracked on github.

sorry, i didn't realize it was in the master already.

"master" != "open source"

As I said it is ongoing open source work. The link to track has been posted on this forum.

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Quote from: btc-mike on July 22, 2014, 03:09:56 PM

until released open-source, it is vaporware.

It has been open source the whole time. The ongoing work can be tracked on github.

sorry, i didn't realize it was in the master already.

It's not in master, I'm working on it with tewinget. Unfortunately, because of the way the code was originally written, it requires a massive refactor of the consensus code for block acceptance/storage/reorganization and so is going to take a little while.

https://github.com/tewinget/bitmonero/tree/blockchain

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Quote from: aminorex on July 22, 2014, 02:06:48 PM

Quote from: binaryFate on July 22, 2014, 02:04:31 PM

This said, the blockchain will grow larger than bitcoin one, by a linear factor. Price to "pay" for unlinkability and untraceability.

For now. I'm pretty sure there will be a much smaller chain with adapted cryptonote before too long.

Boolberry was designed from the beginning with smaller blockchain in mind. The ring signatures can easily be cut off reducing the size by 50%.

Show me the mathematical proof that this can be done without reducing the anonymity set. Like maybe publish a fucking whitepaper or something instead of talking out your ass.

btc-mike

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until released open-source, it is vaporware.

It has been open source the whole time. The ongoing work can be tracked on github.

sorry, i didn't realize it was in the master already.

smooth

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