Topic: rpietila Altcoin Observer - page 204. (Read 387493 times)

Yea, because of NXT's horrible distribution, it will never achieve much price wise.

resp. Nxt rules

XCP (and the Counterparty wallet) just blows me away. The potential of a coin to do where this is going is mind bending.
Looking into these 2.0 technologies. Not saying it will make you money, but the programmability and overall nature of
them is just incredible.

Because the last person holding the unlimited ZC loses once the last BTC is moved out.

Or, on a shorter time frame, the value of ZC would decrease as the supply inflates towards infinity and holding ZC for any period of time becomes a risk.

The situation will eventually deteriorate to the point that mixing your bitcoin ends up costing you 90%+ of their value.

Why would I move my bitcoin into a currency with an infinitely growing supply?

Assuming the value would be in moving in and out of ZC to clean bitcoins, why would it be a bad thing if the mint issued unlimited amounts of the currency? Wealth could be kept in BTC and ZC could be held for short amounts of time to clean the BTC.

"The overall distribution in Bitcoin isn't really better as in NXT." False. Bitcoin is still not even 75% floated.
As debated above, IPO of 100% of a currency,  up front, is not a strong recipe for mass adoption. There is little to no sunk cost for original/average holders (something like a paltry $2-3k total in this case - which makes me wonder - why didn't the NXT founders just match or beat that with their own money, and thus hold 50%+ of coins?), and thus incentive for original holders not to sell.

Bitcoin, on the other hand, with a slower distribution, every order of magnitude of growth brings in new buyers at a higher cost basis, and a lower number of "cheap buyers", lessening the chance of an original buyer crashing the market e.g. "1 million Satoshi Coins".

Fortunately for NXT holders, NXT has built itself many competitive advantages, so the market is unlikely to crash completely.

I quite appreciate MSC and XCP, as they run on Bitcoin network. It's amazing advantage.

The overall distribution in Bitcoin isn't really better as in NXT. And why are you so sure that does not almost all of XMR are mined by botnets? Mining isn't a better distribution, example: Bitcoins. And i also don't like the electricity wastage.

If PoS is your thing, BlackCoin has done improvements to PoS (and call it PoS 2.0) and has a very fair distribution. It didn't have IPO or premine, it was PoW mined by hundreds or thousands of people and traded actively at low prices. It still has pretty low price, surprisingly low in fact considering they are developing NightTrader, which is a decentralized exchange and BlackHalo, which is a smart contract client that allows you to trade/buy anything without having to trust the other party. Wasn't this something that's been needed for a long time? Also the maximum yearly inflation is only 1%, so it should make an excellent store of value.

This and obscuring the whole economy, which makes it impossible to notice something is going wrong until it is too late. This later threat is more difficult to explain and more dangerous.

I don't consider NXT to be a currency.  It is a useful commodity, and will have some swings which speculators may speculate upon.  The asset exchange is a great utility.  I wish the project good success.  I don't think substantial gains in long term value will be found by holding NXT, unless you can acquire so much that you are no longer liquid, in which case your gain is an unrealizable paper gain, which can only be cashed out by selling to a greater fool.

MSC/XCP functions can be better fulfilled on a blockchain which is not a currency.

I see two useful niches for currency:  Transparent and private liquidity niches.  BTC and XMR are the leaders in these two natural monopolies, XMR being much less mature.  BTC has no serious threats to dominance on the horizon.  XMR has one:  Zerocash.

Until and unless ZC can evolve so that it no longer requires a trusted mint,  I do not think it can succeed.  The overhanging risk of the mint defecting, and secretly issuing unlimited amounts of the currency, is just too great.

Many people are not familiar with Vertcoin Stealth Address (First in the world), maybe you're one of them  


My resources about stealth addresses so far:
   Audio: http://coin.cubeconnex.com/poollist/media/Vertcoin_SX_VO.mp3
   Text, Pictures and Audio: http://coin.cubeconnex.com/poollist/ click on Stealth Address
    http://sx.dyne.org/stealth.html
    https://wiki.unsystem.net/en/index.php/DarkWallet/Stealth
    https://wiki.unsystem.net/en/images/e/e5/RHhNKL6.jpg

"IPO is not a way to distribute currency" is just an opinion. Since NXT poses as more than just a currency, you were right in saying that it's more like stock of a company, thus IPO is a natural way to distribute it. And because it is PoS, you can't distribute it as PoW, it's one or the other, can't have cake and eat it too

IPO is not a way to distribute currency. Perhaps people in 2013 were more educated than the current ones 

Just imagine how well NXT would be doing if the coin generation would have been set similar to XMR...

NXT IPO lasted for 53 days, 28 Sep 2013 to 19 Nov 2013 when the Genesis Block was created.
Most IPOs these days run less than that and manage to attract much more capital than NXT did.
It's not NXT's fault that almost nobody did IPOs back in those days and most people were afraid to send any funds.

Thanks for jogging my memory I knew there was a reason the currency itself was essentially worthless and unused at this point in time.

they can be taken in escrow by the counterparty protocol (currently impossible with btc afaik) - so they have a purpose, but until know they are almost unused due to the mantra of the core developers that everything which can be done on the counterparty protocol with bitcoin, will be done with bitcoin.

I agree with everything you said in the post above.

But the way how it was distributed.. Meh, it'll be a stain for a long time.

I also hold these coins, in different percuentual amounts, so you gave me a fit occasion to discuss an issue. Besides the quality of these projects, which varies dramatically, and Ristos, in my opion too strict definition of pre mine scam, one has to wonder why these protocols should network in the way bitcoin probably does. Peter R wrote a post here, which almost completely changed my perception regarding altcoins. If you break down what your INVESTMENT in bitcoin is than it is nothing but the investment in a  boardless worldwide decentralized ledger, which has a massive first mover advantage and additionally the possibility to absorb almost (this is the stuff where it gets interesting) all functions of the existing altcoins - cryptonotes might or might not be an exception (I think they are because of an educated guess regarding the regulation of bitcoin).

That said you can say all altcoins, except probably xmr and maybe for a limited amount of time xcp are not worth investing - I think that is true, but the speculation around altcoins fullfills a purpose. It is basically a reflection of the current weaknesses in the btc protocol, or better said it is a reflection of what the cryptospace thinks are the current weaknesses in the btc protocol. so if you want to make money just join the keynesian beauty contest, but get your objectives clear beforehand.

I am quite happy that you chose nxt in your holds - nxt is innovative, it has quite an army of developers but it has one thing which differs from the other two and that is the marketcap. In my opinion a further increase  in market cap can only be given by network effects, it has to leave altcoin space and fullfill a real life purpose (this starts around 0,5% to 1% of bitcoins market cap, different opinions?) - I am really indifferent if this happens or if this doesn't happen.

maybe we can break it down to a rule of thumb which says up to a market cap of 0,5-1% of btc altcoins can simply be valued by their innovative potential (innovators are getting paid much more than followers - see drk to all the followers), from 0,5% to 1% network effects have to start to legitimize a further increase in value.  

Not sure what you mean.
XCP is a protocol on top of Bitcoin protocol, an additional layer that runs a decentralized exchange. An exchange needs its units of accounting. Do you mean Bitcoins could be used for that directly? Perhaps, I have no idea. The Counterparty developers chose to use their own token, does it matter what token is used? It's a functional exchange, but like I said it's slow and like superresistant added, it may be vulnerable to Bitcoin's flaws as well as its own.