Topic: rpietila Altcoin Observer - page 72. (Read 387491 times)

@aminorex, you are out of line with your suspicion of jl777. Shame on you! You might think you are intelligent, and maybe you are, but you failed a basic character test with your attempt to smear jl777's reputation with your 'suspicion'.

I have no connection with jl777 other than as an investor in some of his projects, including BTCD, and I am genuinely interested to see peer review of his ideas. I find your initial reaction to suspect me of *being* a jl777 sockpuppet quite incredible.

If teleporting is not relevant in this thread then what is? Is this just a monero pump after all? I thought it was about serious discussions of the alt coin space.

To non technical followers of crypto like myself jl777 appears to be at least your equal in technical skill, and his knowledge and experience of real world financial markets would appear to be much higher. You should not patronise him.

Yes, 'kennyP' might be one of my sockpuppets, and I might be an investing 'fan boy' of jl777, but I am NOT jl777. My previous post was sincere and legitimate.

I feel this thread is inhabited by many smart guys, but some obviously think they're actually smarter than they really are. Those guys can come across like wankers very easily.


@aminorex you sounded like an arrogant wanker saying that to jl777. That's my suspicion, not an accusation, maybe you're a good guy who takes feedback well.

I am not smart enough to understand how that link provides any safety net. To a simple guy like me, a safety net means some sort of insurance or price support,but that page talks about: "The purpose of this guide is to explain how the market peg should behave assuming rational market players looking to earn a profit."

In theory and calm markets, a holographic peg should stay close to where it was seeded, especially if there are financial incentives that maximize the probability of the price trading near the peg.

Now, what I have been asking is what happens in an "irrational" market? When the panic selling sets in? It is called panic selling, not "rational selling". With stock market crash what changed was the market's valuation of the estimated future cashflows discounted to present values,right? So changes in interest rates, outlook of economy, etc. play a factor, but ultimately the shares represented a future dividend flow (or at least compounded equity value from (presumably) profitable companies.

This I believe sets a floor for stock market equities. At some point the price becomes lower than the likely future cashflows and value investor move in.

Since btsx has no such future cash flows, there is no floor.
Since the holographic peg is only as good as the belief in it, as soon as we get close to 50% loss from ATH a cascade of selling will happen and once the volume of selling is bigger than what btsx corp can prop up, what will stop this cascade from going all the way down to where the btsx company is willing to just buy it up?

The more btsx succeeds, it seems the more likely it is to fail and at a larger and larger scale and will be big black mark for crypto overall. That is my concern

James

There are safety nets in place for prevent this.

Start here:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=7103.0

There is more however finding all this info is difficult as not all wiki pages etc seem to be updated as the pace this project has progressed.  It's almost necessary to read their forum daily to keep up!

It also explains why you are interested in shorting BTSX. After spending time studying the BTSX wiki http://bitshares-x.info/ it becomes clear to me that a sharp drop in the price of BTSX relative to the price weighted average of the secured assets bitUSD, bitXBT. bitEUR, bitXAU, etc. can cause a cascade of margin calls leading to a complete loss of confidence in the BTSX system. Depending on the overall percentage of BTSX that are securing other assets something in the order of a 50% drop could be enough to set off a cascading panic starting like the October 19, 1987 stock market crash only to become far worse. 

Try to raise the level of discussion, otherwise the delete-button will start to glow red. 

Please explain the meaning of "annoying".

Perhaps this is what you are looking for:
http://www.moneycrashers.com/bonds-for-beginners/

With what risk level ?

Well there is the constant looming rumor of Counterparty and Overstock relationship, but to be honest the counterparty system is so kludgy I cant see how a company like Overstock would really pull this trigger.

And Counterparty is VERY high on my list of Crypto 2.0 experiments because of its general lack of scamminess as well as it's minimalist approach to features and implementation.

The whole Bitshares universe just get more and more convoluted, and it was a web of complicatedness to begin with.  I cant even begin to imagine some of the myriad attack vectors we could see with BTSX.

Which is another reason I like the Monero project so much.  It is a minimalist approach to solving 1 major problem and it aims to do a simple thing and do it well.

The recent attack is just proof that it is evolving, albeit slowly, in the right direction.

I've wondered with these BTC 2.0 type technologies, if any large companies are doing deals, if word gets out, what is to stop people from acquiring it ahead of the news?
It is not insider trading imo. Brings up some interesting dilemmas.

I was really interesting in BTSX a year ago as well, but something was just missing in their presentation and seemed off to me. Honestly, it seemed a bit "off" and I can't
put my finger on it. I do wonder if anything is up. In general, I imagine Sesame St, I mean Wall St., and other big money players will get their feet wet with most. I mean the way money is
continually being printed, it would be stupid not to.

IAS

No need for pennance, after all I cant blame you for not having much time, it is fast paced world we are in.

I am able to finish the tech, but you are expecting me to do things I am not good at and so not fast at, I like to find the most talented people and have them do the things I am not so good at. I hired a Chinese translator to make the Chinese version of DarkPaper, but to me the type of whitepaper you are wanting is much like Chinese to me. I have a hard time just reading the formal papers, so I know I wont be able to do such a thing.

One thing I certainly cannot do is an independent review of Teleport. I really appreciate your help!

Thanks.

James

P.S. I think viewing the Teleport as a system is the best way, I fully realize the vulnerability on entry and exit to the Teleport system. The exit is best done via anon debit card. The entry is still an area I am working on improving. For now the intra-Teleport transfers are what I feel are quite solid, especially with some small amount of trusted teleports mixed in.

I will search and give it a read, thanks

I have not sold more than $50K USD of any asset, this is a small risk capital and the people are understanding the experimental nature. The number of "experimental" assets sold to the public is less than half a dozen and the fact they have more than 100 million NXT in combined marketcap does not mean people have risked millions of dollars. There is very little liquidity with assets as of now, but I am long term hodler for these assets and I dont really care about liquidity as I am looking forward to the dividends to create the value, not speculators.

btsx is now live and >$10 million of trading volumes for an experiment, which might or might not be tainted by price support from IPO funds. They are strongly implying that the price pegs are real, but I am not seeing anything that prevents catastrophic price collapse, which will be quite harmful to all of crypto.

If it turns out that they are using IPO funds to prop things up when it reaches the -30% from ATH, then it will eventually come out. Of course they will say it is all part of the experiment and that they couldnt tell the public about it or it would have ruined the experiment, blah, blah, blah.

The likely scenario is that at some point in the future (have no idea when, next week? next month? next year? tomorrow?) some event will cause a sharp price drop and the cascade of selling. Apologies and promises to fix it will be issued and btsx is repurchased at 10% ATH, so the bitshares company itself will probably be just fine, unless they are domiciled in a litigious country

James

Right now this is something that is being discussed and you have, I feel you have a good point. A feed is either manually entered or some delegates are starting to use a script that grabs the price. The goal I believe is that we will be forex and that their will be no reason or need to reach out to another market for a price check. As time passes and with some adoption merchants could accept a bitUSD and know they are getting basically a dollar. Traders could trade alts and commodities all on one exchange and when they are waiting to strike put their funds into a bitUSD and reduce the risk of volatility. Whats the difference between a bitstamp dollar, a mt gox dollar, and a bitUSD. On one hand their is no difference they are all just 0100101 on the screen but it is the reputation of WHO is putting out the digital version that makes all the difference. In time a market pegged asset could have huge potential (even if it is holographic at first). Live feeds off proven global markets should be the next step.

As to the IPO part I3 has been very upfront when they have invested money and when they haven't. If you check out their forums they post the btc amounts they have purchased. You look at it as propping up the system and we call it, "skin in the game". I believe most of the drive has been driven by the Chinese thus far but shouldn't that be expected  given that they have been playing with digital commodities for far longer then the rest of the world. Whats going to happen when btsx hits other exchanges?

Yes their is a list of things that can go wrong but, their is a equally large list that could go right and has the potential to tap into a multi-trillion daily trading market.  

It reminds me of CfBCNext's comment on NXT and Gavin's disclaimer on BTC.

Out of the dozens assets you issued @NXT AE aren't there any 'experiments'?

That said I have no BTSX because I agree it is a timebomb..

I think it's extremely good timing, FWIW.

In order to gain the support you need, communicating your vision must become your first priority.  If you can do it without cultivating support, go straight to code.  But if you are feeling overburdened, prioritizing communication may be the best course.

As penance for the inferred accusation made earlier, I will add a more thorough reading of the darkpaper to my task queue, no promises.   If I can make sense of it, I may be able to help you communicate your vision more succinctly and clearly.  Anything further on this subject will be in PM.

@Gentso1: Anonymint & Cunicula criticised this heavily - check for bytemaster's post and bitshares in the forum.

Just a note.  I am converting 80% of my BTSX distribution to XMR here at .00009490/.00392.  I hold negligible amount of any alt besides XMR at this point, and for the most part have only dabbled in a few.  Protoshares caught my attention about a year ago, and it is interesting to see the BTS project mature, but I am dubious of it's stability here.

It will be interesting to see if my timing is good.  I don't usually publish my trades publicly, but thought it would be fun.

It is hard to say what is happening with BTSX though...

If you are not liking DarkPaper you should have seen the rough draft I sent to the professional copywriter who did a lot of editing. I am sorry, I am not technical writer and also not a scholar. I am a generalist, I do have common sense and I can write C code.

I cannot do this alone. I am not sure why you are expecting me to be able to do everything myself.

Maybe after I am done with all the code that needs to be done for Teleport and the projects after, I can revisit the DarkPaper. I am able to offer funds for people to contribute, so I am not asking for free labor. I had hoped to find the appropriate braniacs here...

James