Topic: Rumors of Bitcoin's libertarian death have been greatly exaggerated. - page 3. (Read 4086 times)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

You claim Somalia is a failed state with no effective government, yet you admit you haven't even been there. Those who have actually been there, reported from there, such as Unreported World's "The Master Chef of Mogadishu" crew, show Al Shabaab insurging against the government and trying to assassinate them, a government composed partially if not mostly of former ex-pats and refugees. Why would Al Shabaab insurge against a non-threat, non-effective government? Why would ex-pats and refugees return just to circlejerk and get suicide bombed? Why is Mogadishu Central Prison run, if not to lock people in?

How bloody effective does a government need to be before you stop saying it's not?

Yup, anytime a society grants to a special group of people a monopoly on the use of violent power, the psychopaths among the wider population will inevitably be drawn to become a part of that elite power wielding group. As the proportion of psychopaths within this elite group increases, the more deranged and destructive the actions of that group become, and fewer good, well intentioned people will remain in it.

This dynamic is inherently self-reinforcing, inevitable, and unstable. Over the course of time proven in history, it always results in the deaths of thousands and millions of innocent people. Which usually means the destruction of the host society.

Government has become an incredibly foolish scheme in which we grant all the money, all the guns, all the power, AND a monopoly on violent force to a relatively small group of demonstrably fallible human beings.

Our only choice is to never ever grant such power to any group of people.

Before we can progress to a brighter, more prosperous future, humanity must learn to finally and irrevocably turn its back on this destructive fantasy that psychopathic power-crazed control freaks with all the money, guns, and power, will ever be a solution to anything.

With the advancement of technology, communication, and a P2P, decentralized, global, open source, proof of ownership system in Bitcoin, I think we are getting closer to such a realization.

Exactly!   Bitcoin is usable currency that relies on no central government, a novel invention and a great idea.   Do I believe that it will replace all centralized government currency?  No.  But it will live along side of it.

Bitcoin is slowly breaking down our shared myths: "deflation is bad," "money must be issued by a government," "people should not be free to transact with each other," etc., etc.  Bitcoin will break down some libertarian myths too.  

I think it is better to focus on ideas rather than labels.  Labels divide, ideas unite.  When you settle into an ideology, it seems to be an excuse to stop thinking.

You site statistics, then say statistics are irrelevant?   I'm confused.    Somalia is a failed state with no effective government.  The gun laws of the ineffective government don't really figure into the equation.

Statistics are irrelevant to this argument about who can or cannot legally get a gun under the laws of the State, which is covered by gunpolicy.org with cites. Texas with its Jim Crow laws is another example of a State that is covered in "but there's liberty here!" bullshit.

Copyright law in the United States is moving towards more and more criminal provisions.   People who violate such laws should be aware of that, and not all of them are going to admit it in public.  Just like people that take illegal drugs.  As I have said before, I am sympathetic to a lot of libertarian principles.

Let me be a little less subtle.  Smart criminals are the ones that never get caught.  Dumb criminals are the ones that get caught.  Really dumb criminals are the ones that don't even require a confidential informant to inform the authorities of their actions.

I actually do wait for the crosswalk to light to switch so I can have legal right of way.  I'm usually not in that big of a hurry crossing the street.   Crossing with the light in the crosswalk allows me punitive damages in court if someone chooses to hit me.  It's just a weird thing I do, hopefully it will never pay off.

I refuse to see that movie, because it glorifies the mighty power of the US Navy brought to bear on a bunch of skinny teenagers.   I read a lot; but no, I have never been there, have you?

The official government has no control outside of the capital and very little control inside the capital.  Sure, it is the officially recognized government of Somalia.

The gun statistics are based on household surveys done in limited geographical (safe) areas.   "Knock, knock, knock.  Hi, I'm doing a survey and would like to know how many guns you keep in the house.   Thanks you for your time and honest answer, have a good day."   Try doing that in Texas and say with a straight face that you can interpolate the true gun ownership statistics in Texas.

Have you even been to Somalia? What are you basing your knowledge of its current condition on? "Captain Phillips" with Tom Hanks??

Sorry, but you sound really pathetic. Like you're the type to wait for the crosswalk light to switch to "walk" even if its in the middle of the night, and well lit and no cars for over a mile in every direction.

Do you really think the Feds are gonna bust down your door for streaming the final season of "Breaking Bad"?

Are you then arguing that Somalia is or is not a libertarian utopia?   I regard it as the closest thing in the world in this point and time.   You are adding on to an argument in which the other poster doesn't believe it is because the people are poor and violent, and I am arguing that from a libertarian point of view, the absence of government and increased gun ownership solves these problems.  However, I don't see many idealistic libertarians flocking to this paradise.

 - No system of government will ever create wealth. Different governmental systems only protect the interests of different people. A Libertarian government affords little protection and favors an individuals right to choose for themselves. The protections afforded by other forms of governments come in the form of restrictions and have a high cost. The cost of regulation is a piece of freedom + the financial draw of regulatory oversight. Everybody is losing money just to protect a few people from themselves, essentially.

 - The distribution of guns should not be "socialized" because that would imply that the guns weren't owned by the person carrying it. Guns should be owned diversely by society, if a warlord wants to steal your food supply then the people should outnumber the warlords... Allow the people equal access to power and the oppression will end. Gun ownership is power; think of Yin and Yang. The guns will exist and the power is real; the people deserve equal access to that power necessary to protect their lives and equalize the distribution of power. The force of the people should exceed the force of the government ALWAYS and at every point.

Bullshit. Somalia is governed, not anarchic or libertarian; non-aggressive liberty there is prohibited by law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Government_of_Somalia
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/somalia

If I did, would I admit to it on an open forum?  Probably not.   If I did participate in that activity, would I use a VPN located in another country to protect myself?  Probably.   Would I admit to sending some spare satoshis to the donation btc address on piratebay.se which resolves to ip address 194.71.107.15?  Probably not.

Personally, I, as an urban dweller, see broadband internet as means for rural dweller to not remain backwards and ignorant, and get exposed to other views.   Instead, they are led by the nose by two of the richest oligarch brothers in America through shadowy "grass roots" organizations that they fund from their Upper West Side penthouse in Manhattan, and they get them to vote against their own self-interests.   They have an extreme hatred for heathcare.gov, even though they've never seen the website and objectively made up their minds.  But that's just me.

Without a subsidy to jump start the investment needed in infra-structure, rural dwellers are going to wait a long, long time until the free market solution finally allows them access.  Meanwhile, the urban dwellers have the advantage of the information economy, and they don't and society stratifies.


I strongly believe in Pigouvian taxes on the dirty energy industry, as it would quickly provide a free market solution to develop the clean energy industry (and get America ahead of the rest of the world in this regard).   But I thought the word "tax" was a dirty word with libertarians.  

Raise your hand if you've downloaded any music, movies, or TV shows lately.

*raises hand*

If you have, you've been breaking the law. Have you gone to jail for it? I haven't.

Speaking of breaking the law, the authority figures do it too:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinthesky/2014/03/27/busted-police-allege-lax-theft-ring-stole-from-fliers-bags/6949949/
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/dozens-baggage-handlers-involved-lax-theft-ring-police-article-1.1737407

Trusting wealth with strangers is a risky proposition... that's why Bitcoin is such a brilliant technology.

Perhaps the influx of income from ransom and piracy had something to do with it?

My point exactly.

Then, what is the system of government needed to create the water supply if libertarianism is going to cut it?  You are a hypothetical benign dictator, you choose.

So, "socialize" the distribution of guns?  Anybody that has the money or submits to service to one of the many warlords there can get a gun.  There's no government there saying you can't get a gun.  I'm just not getting your point.

What does Detroit really prove? #racism_spotted