Russia and others, move to use Yuan instead of dollar. - page 5.

Sithara007

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Quote from: bittraffic on June 05, 2023, 10:00:29 AM

Anyone could see where this going since we're not gonna accept China to be in the equal footing of US when it comes to making policy. Its only the BRICS countries that see China to be the soon world leader which could lead to war to settle this as part of that strategic responce.

I don't really China the world leader but its still the alternative to US since many countries wants independence from US like the African countries which they will be using Yuan for their trades.

Argentina has become the latest country to use CNY for international trade. They decided to replace USD with CNY for making payments for Chinese imports. Brazil is also taking steps to settle some of the trade with China in CNY. So it is not just the African countries that are using CNY for international trade. Also, recently Pakistan entered in to a deal with Russia, to import Urals crude and the settlement will be done with CNY. India is one of the few third world nations still refusing to use the Chinese Yuan. But that has more to do with the ongoing border tensions with China.

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Quote from: Lamkuthang on June 05, 2023, 09:29:24 AM

In my view, This development represents a shift in global economic dynamics and challenges the US dollar's longstanding dominance as the world's reserve currency. This poses a potential risk to the US economy, as reduced demand for the dollar could weaken its value and impact the country's ability to finance its first ever deficit.

What this will bring for the coming days and years I think this move could reduce the influence of the United States in global financial affairs and potentially lead to a redistribution of power on the international stage. While the full ramifications are yet to be seen, it is clear that this development signals a changing economic landscape and requires careful attention and a strategic response from US policymakers.

Anyone could see where this going since we're not gonna accept China to be in the equal footing of US when it comes to making policy. Its only the BRICS countries that see China to be the soon world leader which could lead to war to settle this as part of that strategic responce.

I don't really China the world leader but its still the alternative to US since many countries wants independence from US like the African countries which they will be using Yuan for their trades.

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In my view, This development represents a shift in global economic dynamics and challenges the US dollar's longstanding dominance as the world's reserve currency. This poses a potential risk to the US economy, as reduced demand for the dollar could weaken its value and impact the country's ability to finance its first ever deficit.

What this will bring for the coming days and years I think this move could reduce the influence of the United States in global financial affairs and potentially lead to a redistribution of power on the international stage. While the full ramifications are yet to be seen, it is clear that this development signals a changing economic landscape and requires careful attention and a strategic response from US policymakers.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on May 30, 2023, 12:26:11 AM

Quote from: nesty on May 28, 2023, 08:07:53 PM

Russia and others move to use Yuan is maybe because of the trade war between the US and China which i think affected the stability of the dollar. China's growing economic influence to internationalize the Yuan had made it attractive as an alternative for countries seeking to diversify their currency reserves. I think it is also because of the continuous economic growth of China more countries are now doing business with them and most likely they are using Yuan for transactions.

I have doubts about this "growing economic influence" of China. As per data from 2022, Chinese Yuan is the 8th most traded currency in the world with a share of 2.16% (now compare that with 44.15% for the USD and 16.14% for the Euro). Even the Swiss France is ranked above Chinese Yuan. For those who want to replace the US Dollar, CNY is a good option. But then in terms of basics, CNY is weaker than the USD. It is being heavily manipulated by the Chinese government and other countries should be cautious while using it.

Very accurate comment!

Replacing the dollar with the yuan is an extremely stupid exercise.
It's like replacing the dollar, well, let it be with the Iranian real, or the Brazilian real ... Well, they replaced it, and then what? Instability of the economy, lack of provision with real economic power, a huge number of negative factors influencing the value of the currency, .. What BENEFITS will the one who will change the STABLE dollar to the UNSTABLE yuan/real/... get? Actions must have a clearly defined goal that brings benefits or benefits or solves some problem! But today, no matter how much anyone would like, there is NO ALTERNATIVE to the dollar.

PS About the "success of Russia" with the transition to settlements in yuan and rupees, I hope you don't need to tell?
Now China and India have what they wanted and for cheap, while Russia has a bunch of colorful papers, and the inability to exchange them for something Russia really needs

redwine49

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Quote from: nesty on May 28, 2023, 08:07:53 PM

Russia and others move to use Yuan is maybe because of the trade war between the US and China which i think affected the stability of the dollar. China's growing economic influence to internationalize the Yuan had made it attractive as an alternative for countries seeking to diversify their currency reserves. I think it is also because of the continuous economic growth of China more countries are now doing business with them and most likely they are using Yuan for transactions.

the long standing US Dollar vs the use of chinesse yuan still long way to go for international transaction.
news is just news and implementing it takes a long time or it's just a plan, it may work or maybe it's just a plan that maybe just a discourse

lixer

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Quote from: darkangel11 on May 28, 2023, 11:23:31 AM

Quote from: asyakashi on May 28, 2023, 11:00:49 AM

yeah this is very profitable for china. they will most likely be international money on a yuan basis. I think this has something to do with Russia's conflict with Europe so that the dollar does not want to be used by Russia for transactions. the most important thing is, if one day the yuan really above the dollar we will likely see China will hold the first position in world economic power.

To be exact, Russia isn't in a conflict with Europe. It's in a conflict with most of the world. Check which countries are imposing sanctions on Russia. It's the whole G7, so also the US and Canada, and many other countries like Japan and South Korea. Russia has put itself in a large disadvantage by attacking Ukraine. So far it hasn't achieved any of its military goals and destroyed its deals with many powerful countries, like the gas deal with Europe.
It will continue to trade with China, but don't be fooled by their friendship. China doesn't want strong Russia, which is why it isn't helping with the war against Ukraine. The best possible outcome for China would be a prolonged conflict that bleeds out both Russia and the US.

Well, I do agree with you, China would probably not want Russia to be more powerful than it and all these trades and everything are obviously not aimed at that, China might be helping Russia or making trades with them so that they keep it against the US and Europe and if China becomes successful in that, he will probably abandon the friendship too when required.

No country will have love for any other country apart from their own benefits that they can get from each other and that is why they make friendships, otherwise, if one could survive without the other, no one would even ask each other at all.

Sithara007

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Quote from: nesty on May 28, 2023, 08:07:53 PM

Russia and others move to use Yuan is maybe because of the trade war between the US and China which i think affected the stability of the dollar. China's growing economic influence to internationalize the Yuan had made it attractive as an alternative for countries seeking to diversify their currency reserves. I think it is also because of the continuous economic growth of China more countries are now doing business with them and most likely they are using Yuan for transactions.

I have doubts about this "growing economic influence" of China. As per data from 2022, Chinese Yuan is the 8th most traded currency in the world with a share of 2.16% (now compare that with 44.15% for the USD and 16.14% for the Euro). Even the Swiss France is ranked above Chinese Yuan. For those who want to replace the US Dollar, CNY is a good option. But then in terms of basics, CNY is weaker than the USD. It is being heavily manipulated by the Chinese government and other countries should be cautious while using it.

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Quote from: Lida93 on March 31, 2023, 10:48:52 AM

This is what could be referred to in international politics as power tussle in terms of international levels of analysis. Haven such two conflicting countries like China and Russia coming together based on mutual economic interest against a common rival the USA is one that could be very frustrating for the US dollar with the unambiguous leverage and advantage the likes of Russia, China, Iran and Saudi Arabia have come together to give to the Chinese Yuan. With Russia in the forefront bent on the use of the Chinese Yuan instead of the US dollar in their country and in all of it's transactions and trades settlements with Latin America, Africa and Asia countries.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-turns-to-chinas-yuan-in-effort-to-ditch-the-dollar-a8111457

What does this new development make for the US economy and the US dollar in the coming days and years to come.
Give your personal opinion on this development!

they (USA) think that they are a superpower country and can dictate all countries in the world with their sanctions and threats. they think that other countries are not brave enough to be able to tackle them in a way that is brave enough. switching currency from usd to yuan in their trading is just their first step, surely BRICS alliance and many other countries that are fed up with American and USD domination will lean to Russia and China and their grand alliance and will come with new attacks on America and the west.

the west and america will definitely be upset about this and let's just wait for america and the west to play the victim and accuse china and russia and their allies of trying to play unfairly and pose a threat to global stability.

nesty

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Russia and others move to use Yuan is maybe because of the trade war between the US and China which i think affected the stability of the dollar. China's growing economic influence to internationalize the Yuan had made it attractive as an alternative for countries seeking to diversify their currency reserves. I think it is also because of the continuous economic growth of China more countries are now doing business with them and most likely they are using Yuan for transactions.

molsewid

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Quote from: asyakashi on May 28, 2023, 11:00:49 AM

yeah this is very profitable for china. they will most likely be international money on a yuan basis. I think this has something to do with Russia's conflict with Europe so that the dollar does not want to be used by Russia for transactions. the most important thing is, if one day the yuan really above the dollar we will likely see China will hold the first position in world economic power.

And maybe they realize that goods and materials are good in China so using Yuan will decrease the amount they needed to convert in order for them to buy those things. And I also believe it has to do with their issues with Europe or US. And yes, supporting Yuan from one of the biggest continent and powerful country will make China dominate among all other countries.

redwine49

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interesting to read this debate. This is about money right, everything is only made on paper.

long time ago there are paper money backed by gold. which one is it? the USD.
then everycurrency around the world used to follow USD.
after the United States terminated convertibility of the US dollar to gold in 1971
our money became free floating (inflation)

Japinat

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Quote from: Captain Corporate on May 24, 2023, 06:19:21 PM

People can criticize Russia and China without praising USA, you guys are aware of that right? All I have seen here is people saying either good things about USA and bashing Russia/China duo, or people who deny "allegations" and do the reverse. I am sorry but it is obvious from the start that we are talking about three nations that face trouble. USA with their debt situation and house not being able to pass a simple law, they are doing f-k all right now and they are in shambles and they are terrible, I'll give them this, they have democracy at least, Russia and China definitely doesn't have that, impossible for them to have another ruler for now. So all in all I am guessing that we are looking at bunch of nations whose currencies all will get worse, every single one of them, all have their trouble, all have different reasons, but I wouldn't hold dollars, yuans or rubles as my investment, they will all go down, short them if I would against bitcoin for sure.

That is normal mate, it's not a really a big deal because everyone are just expressing their thoughts and opinions about the matter, and we cannot really blame them if they are blinded by the term "middle class" as they have their own reasons why they loved that term in the first place. But know this, they will get an eye opener sooner or later because I believe these things will slowly happen in the middle of quarter three and quarter four this year as transition is taking place.

They may have no idea at all as of now but soon they will know the situation they are facing, just let them be if they don't want to know about the truth. They chose to be in that situation and we cannot force them to prepare for what's coming. As of now, the use of Chinese Yuan in the international market is just a beginning and when the second phase will begin, USA will probably suffer more when the BRICS will successfully launch a new reserve currency.

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Quote from: asyakashi on May 28, 2023, 11:00:49 AM

yeah this is very profitable for china. they will most likely be international money on a yuan basis. I think this has something to do with Russia's conflict with Europe so that the dollar does not want to be used by Russia for transactions. the most important thing is, if one day the yuan really above the dollar we will likely see China will hold the first position in world economic power.

To be exact, Russia isn't in a conflict with Europe. It's in a conflict with most of the world. Check which countries are imposing sanctions on Russia. It's the whole G7, so also the US and Canada, and many other countries like Japan and South Korea. Russia has put itself in a large disadvantage by attacking Ukraine. So far it hasn't achieved any of its military goals and destroyed its deals with many powerful countries, like the gas deal with Europe.
It will continue to trade with China, but don't be fooled by their friendship. China doesn't want strong Russia, which is why it isn't helping with the war against Ukraine. The best possible outcome for China would be a prolonged conflict that bleeds out both Russia and the US.

asyakashi

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yeah this is very profitable for china. they will most likely be international money on a yuan basis. I think this has something to do with Russia's conflict with Europe so that the dollar does not want to be used by Russia for transactions. the most important thing is, if one day the yuan really above the dollar we will likely see China will hold the first position in world economic power.

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Quote from: Crypt0Gore on May 28, 2023, 07:10:55 AM

Why do I still feel like this whole hate on USD won't work?

Because it has never happened at any point in history where just hate and no actual economic reason have been able to trigger the downfall of a currency that besides a few haters is still used and seen as trustable by the majority of the world and not just majority in population but majority when in comes to economical means?

And you can see the irony right now right here, just check the signature of those that each day take a swing at the $, all are getting paid according to the $ value, there is no campaign on this forum paying a fixed sum in yuans or rubles or rial or any other kind of toilet paper money.
But as it is with every propaganda it all stops when it's personal, shouting against the $ might be trendy might be cool or gather you a fanbase but in the the end, when it comes to the banknotes you want in your wallet it's good old $ and nothing more.

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Quote from: Crypt0Gore on May 28, 2023, 07:10:55 AM

Why do I still feel like this whole hate on USD won't work? I have nothing much to say about this plan but I don't see USD getting taking over by Yuan, if fee countries decide to turn their back on the US dollars what about the rest of the world? This is going to fail woefully on the long run.

No one is saying that the yuan will dominate or beat the dollar. It's all about the replace and finding a way out of the USD dependency. I don't know how far the new alliance led by Russia and China will go in rebalancing the world's balance of power. But I believe nothing in this world can last and be at the top forever. There will come a time when the US and the USD will be replaced by something stronger, like how the US beat the UK to become the world hegemon. It's just a law of nature, and it's bound to happen.

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Why do I still feel like this whole hate on USD won't work? I have nothing much to say about this plan but I don't see USD getting taking over by Yuan, if fee countries decide to turn their back on the US dollars what about the rest of the world? This is going to fail woefully on the long run.

DrBeer

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Quote from: be.open on May 26, 2023, 07:16:00 AM

...
1.In a sense? In direct. And no, this does not suit everyone, and it creates problems for many people in the world.
2.That was the reality 70 years ago, a lot has changed since then. And the US has no one to blame but itself, look at the growth chart of US debt - recently it reflects the inadequacy and immoderation of the US in matters of consumption and fiscal discipline. The United States lives beyond its means, in fact they are engaged in robbery of the whole world. Here is the current reality.
3.We'll see. A simple replacement of the dollar with the yuan is not a solution to the problem, in the case of Russia it is a forced and temporary solution due to economic sanctions.

Thanks for the answer !

Quote from: be.open on May 26, 2023, 07:16:00 AM

1.In a sense? Direct. And no, this does not suit everyone, and it creates problems for many people in the world.

Always, in response to such an answer, I ask one thing - give examples from real life, where, how and to whom did this create problems? Especially "for many people"?

Quote from: be.open on May 26, 2023, 07:16:00 AM

2.That was the reality 70 years ago, a lot has changed since then. And the US has no one to blame but itself, look at the growth chart of US debt - recently it reflects the inadequacy and immoderation of the US in matters of consumption and fiscal discipline. The United States lives beyond its means, in fact they are engaged in robbery of the whole world. Here is the current reality.

About "look at their public debt" - this mantra has been around for many decades. Tell me - when was this "problem" unresolved? Or led to real problems? The answer is simple - NO. Here is the current reality.

Quote from: be.open on May 26, 2023, 07:16:00 AM

3.We'll see. A simple replacement of the dollar with the yuan is not a solution to the problem, in the case of Russia it is a forced and temporary solution due to sanctions economic.

So what did Russia get in the end? Huge deposits of yuan that cannot be turned into a dollar? The fact is that the Russian economy does not need the yuan. The Russian economy needs the dollar and the euro. What is happening now is simply "the use of Russia's resources" by China, for its own good.

It's like it was with the rupee - oil was sold, gold was sold - but there were no dollars. Plus, billions more from deals "to circumvent sanctions" just disappeared somewhere (easily googled) ...

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Quote from: Sithara007 on May 26, 2023, 02:35:25 AM

The argument is why USD should be replaced with CNY, when the latter is an even more manipulated fiat currency? All the negatives being said about the US Dollar are applicable to the Chinese Yuan as well.

This is exactly why the world is not replacing dollar with yuan, they are replacing dollar with bilateral agreements between countries to use other means of payment. For example among the ASEAN countries they have come up with agreements and infrastructure to use their own respective currencies (not USD and not CNY). Similarly if a country from ASEAN wants to trade with China they use similar bilateral agreements and use CNY and when they want to trade with US they use USD.
Either case, dollar is being abandoned at large.

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Quote from: DrBeer on May 25, 2023, 08:32:24 AM

Quote from: be.open on May 25, 2023, 07:55:32 AM

Quote from: DrBeer on May 25, 2023, 04:28:17 AM

The only problem is that some people are trying to manipulate information. And they are trying to pass off as "worldwide de-dollarization" - China's attempt to get itself "yuan slaves" to export inflation and the problems of the Chinese economy to these very "fighters against dollars". And the United States... The United States, as always, will go through this "standard procedure" about its national debt, and no one will suffer. As some would really like, those who do not understand how the world economy works and works

Well, that is, when the United States exports inflation and the problems of its economy around the world, this is normal, but when China tries to do the same, it is wrong. Quod licet Jovi, non licet bovi, do I understand your train of thought correctly? Grin

Quote from: DrBeer on May 25, 2023, 04:28:17 AM

It is POSSIBLE to get away from the dollar, but a simple question: why, and how to change it - baffles everyone. No, there are certainly fervent dreamers who call the yuan, the rupee, almost the ruble! But we understand that this is just a cynical joke

I think it’s worth waiting for the BRICS summer summit, where some kind of solution to this issue should be announced in the form of a synthetic token with a proportional weight of all emerging economies in the alliance, or with a link to a unit of energy, or something like that. The other day, the head of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation, Nabiullina, visited a colleague in Iran, where they also negotiated the future architecture of financial interactions.

You are confusing, as the people say, "warm with soft"

In a sense, the US is of course exporting its inflation to the world. But this suits everyone and does not create problems for anyone. Moreover - due to the "smearing" of the problem - the dollar is the international reserve currency. And most importantly, giving the dollar the status of an international reserve currency had a completely different meaning! I'm sure you don't know, but you think that this is a conspiracy of "insidious imperialists"

In a sense? In direct. And no, this does not suit everyone, and it creates problems for many people in the world.

Quote from: DrBeer on May 25, 2023, 08:32:24 AM

And the story is this - at a time when the whole world was destabilized by the Second World War, it was necessary to become attached to something stable and liquid. At that time, Europe was in ruins, the leading economies were badly hit, and the only stable and secured currency was the dollar. Whether you like it or not. But that's the reality

That was the reality 70 years ago, a lot has changed since then. And the US has no one to blame but itself, look at the growth chart of US debt - recently it reflects the inadequacy and immoderation of the US in matters of consumption and fiscal discipline. The United States lives beyond its means, in fact they are engaged in robbery of the whole world. Here is the current reality.

Quote from: DrBeer on May 25, 2023, 08:32:24 AM

And China has a primitive goal - to urgently save its economy by hanging its problems on its "partners", and build a monopolized channel for access to the dollar for these unfortunate people

Hope you feel the difference.

Nothing will happen about "waiting for the BRICS a bit"; China will forcibly pull the yuan for everyone, or some more cunning scheme, but so that these unfortunate fools give up the dollar and the opportunity to independently interact with the whole world is normal, because. In fact, no one needs the yuan, and the dollar is critically important to China! And China will attribute this binding "role" to itself

We'll see. A simple replacement of the dollar with the yuan is not a solution to the problem, in the case of Russia it is a forced and temporary solution due to economic sanctions.

Topic: Russia and others, move to use Yuan instead of dollar. - page 5. (Read 1638 times)