Russia suspends gas supplies to Poland and Bulgaria for failing to pay in rouble - page 2.

crzy

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Quote from: DrBeer on May 01, 2022, 03:57:52 PM

Quote from: Leviathan.007 on May 01, 2022, 06:25:31 AM

I was expecting to see some European countries do not accept paying the gas price in the rouble to Russia, however doing this will bring many problems for them and they will have issues with supplying gas for their people, by doing so the gas price in Poland Bulgaria and raise and this will make people unhappy also their government should start seeking for a new gas supplier to replace Russia and this will be a pain because finding another gas supplier can a problem but if you are forced for it this will be even harder, but still doing this can be a great a step forward for the rest of European countries.

Most countries have not paid in pieces of paper with the name "ruble", and will not pay. In addition to the Kremlin "litters" such as Hungary, not a single normal consumer paid attention to the tantrums of the Kremlin Fuhrer, and they continue to pay according to the terms of the contract. Let's create a list of countries here who pays in EURO and who pays in Rubles? And compare the balance? Don't you want?

Russia stands to his threat and starts not to supply the gas for not paying in Ruble, those countries took the risk as well and now facing the problem same thing with Russia. If you have the gas supply, you can really hold it especially if they didn’t meet your terms. I don’t know how long Russia can handle this but EU countries are also suffering because of this, this is a domino effect.

DrBeer

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Quote from: Leviathan.007 on May 01, 2022, 06:25:31 AM

I was expecting to see some European countries do not accept paying the gas price in the rouble to Russia, however doing this will bring many problems for them and they will have issues with supplying gas for their people, by doing so the gas price in Poland Bulgaria and raise and this will make people unhappy also their government should start seeking for a new gas supplier to replace Russia and this will be a pain because finding another gas supplier can a problem but if you are forced for it this will be even harder, but still doing this can be a great a step forward for the rest of European countries.

Most countries have not paid in pieces of paper with the name "ruble", and will not pay. In addition to the Kremlin "litters" such as Hungary, not a single normal consumer paid attention to the tantrums of the Kremlin Fuhrer, and they continue to pay according to the terms of the contract. Let's create a list of countries here who pays in EURO and who pays in Rubles? And compare the balance? Don't you want?

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Quote from: Ultegra134 on May 01, 2022, 07:06:42 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on April 30, 2022, 10:38:34 PM

Quote from: Ultegra134 on April 30, 2022, 04:47:09 PM

It's an undoubtable fact that Russia has disrupted the oil and gas market. Before you get started, I know, gas prices were already high enough before the Russian invasion, however, now they've skyrocketed, not to mention that due to the war, Crude oil surpassed all-time high records of many years, within a matter of time.

As a result, due to embargoes and the whole situation, Russia is selling discounted oil to Asian countries (thus, they're not that much affected by the sanctions), while Europe has to pay extravagant prices, without having a feasible solution planned.

The Europeans are shooting themselves on foot. Russians are also losing out, as they are being forced to sell oil and gas at discounted rates. On the other hand, the OPEC bloc as well as the Americans are gaining, as they are able to make good profits out of this situation. Crude oil prices have gone up by almost 200%, while the natural gas prices have gone up by 6-7x. Russia may ship more oil to countries such as India and Indonesia, but there is a lack of availability of large tankers to carry this oil.

Certainly, this is an adverse situation for both sides, however, as you've also mentioned yourself, Europe (mostly its citizens) is suffering the sanction's repercussions a lot worse than Russia, in terms of Crude oil prices at least. To be honest, I don't remember having such excessive gas prices here, for the past 10 years, taxes play a huge role in our case, but barrel prices have skyrocketed, achieving a new all-time high.

The fuel price around the globe have increased a lot due to the supply shortage. When this is the scenario in most of the European countries, why is the fuel price is found at the peak in Russia's friendly countries like India. It looks like the government is running with the revenue from fuel. For that reason unlike the barrel price, the taxation is done to keep the price on the top.

Ultegra134

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 30, 2022, 10:38:34 PM

Quote from: Ultegra134 on April 30, 2022, 04:47:09 PM

It's an undoubtable fact that Russia has disrupted the oil and gas market. Before you get started, I know, gas prices were already high enough before the Russian invasion, however, now they've skyrocketed, not to mention that due to the war, Crude oil surpassed all-time high records of many years, within a matter of time.

As a result, due to embargoes and the whole situation, Russia is selling discounted oil to Asian countries (thus, they're not that much affected by the sanctions), while Europe has to pay extravagant prices, without having a feasible solution planned.

The Europeans are shooting themselves on foot. Russians are also losing out, as they are being forced to sell oil and gas at discounted rates. On the other hand, the OPEC bloc as well as the Americans are gaining, as they are able to make good profits out of this situation. Crude oil prices have gone up by almost 200%, while the natural gas prices have gone up by 6-7x. Russia may ship more oil to countries such as India and Indonesia, but there is a lack of availability of large tankers to carry this oil.

Certainly, this is an adverse situation for both sides, however, as you've also mentioned yourself, Europe (mostly its citizens) is suffering the sanction's repercussions a lot worse than Russia, in terms of Crude oil prices at least. To be honest, I don't remember having such excessive gas prices here, for the past 10 years, taxes play a huge role in our case, but barrel prices have skyrocketed, achieving a new all-time high.

DrBeer

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Some cool news - Bulgaria, in response to the violation of contractual terms by Russia and the termination of gas supplies under the contract, is considering the option of suspending the pumping of gas through its territory, for Hungary and Serbia, enough pro-Kremlin "dogs"

the great leader of Russia" is developing an insidious plan for revenge on Poland and at the same time Bulgaria. Blocks their supply. Eventually:
1. Lose profit
2. Other EU countries will help Poland and Bulgaria and these countries will be able to avoid problems. And from the end of the year they will FOREVER leave the purchase of Russian gas
3. With a high probability - Hungary and Serbia will end up without gas, which dutifully follow all the orders of a madman

Bravo!!!

Leviathan.007

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I was expecting to see some European countries do not accept paying the gas price in the rouble to Russia, however doing this will bring many problems for them and they will have issues with supplying gas for their people, by doing so the gas price in Poland Bulgaria and raise and this will make people unhappy also their government should start seeking for a new gas supplier to replace Russia and this will be a pain because finding another gas supplier can a problem but if you are forced for it this will be even harder, but still doing this can be a great a step forward for the rest of European countries.

Sithara007

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Quote from: Ultegra134 on April 30, 2022, 04:47:09 PM

It's an undoubtable fact that Russia has disrupted the oil and gas market. Before you get started, I know, gas prices were already high enough before the Russian invasion, however, now they've skyrocketed, not to mention that due to the war, Crude oil surpassed all-time high records of many years, within a matter of time.

As a result, due to embargoes and the whole situation, Russia is selling discounted oil to Asian countries (thus, they're not that much affected by the sanctions), while Europe has to pay extravagant prices, without having a feasible solution planned.

The Europeans are shooting themselves on foot. Russians are also losing out, as they are being forced to sell oil and gas at discounted rates. On the other hand, the OPEC bloc as well as the Americans are gaining, as they are able to make good profits out of this situation. Crude oil prices have gone up by almost 200%, while the natural gas prices have gone up by 6-7x. Russia may ship more oil to countries such as India and Indonesia, but there is a lack of availability of large tankers to carry this oil.

Ultegra134

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Quote from: DrBeer on April 30, 2022, 03:59:54 PM

All the boys, let's go. Another "victory" for Russia, with another shot in the foot

1. 2 countries from now on stop buying (receiving) gas from Russia and paying them accordingly. Minus in the budget of Russia.
2. Until the launch of the new pipeline at the end of the year, Germany and Greece will help Poland and Bulgaria with gas.
3. Russia always loses another very loyal country - Bulgaria

That's really "achieved the desired effect" with such an outburst, right!?

It will just be necessary to write down all the "moves" of Russia, and release a 100-volume book called "How not to do business so as not to look like a complete idiot. Proven by Russia." I think it will be a bestseller!

It's an undoubtable fact that Russia has disrupted the oil and gas market. Before you get started, I know, gas prices were already high enough before the Russian invasion, however, now they've skyrocketed, not to mention that due to the war, Crude oil surpassed all-time high records of many years, within a matter of time.

As a result, due to embargoes and the whole situation, Russia is selling discounted oil to Asian countries (thus, they're not that much affected by the sanctions), while Europe has to pay extravagant prices, without having a feasible solution planned.

DrBeer

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All the boys, let's go. Another "victory" for Russia, with another shot in the foot

1. 2 countries from now on stop buying (receiving) gas from Russia and paying them accordingly. Minus in the budget of Russia.
2. Until the launch of the new pipeline at the end of the year, Germany and Greece will help Poland and Bulgaria with gas.
3. Russia always loses another very loyal country - Bulgaria

That's really "achieved the desired effect" with such an outburst, right!?

It will just be necessary to write down all the "moves" of Russia, and release a 100-volume book called "How not to do business so as not to look like a complete idiot. Proven by Russia." I think it will be a bestseller!

ven7net

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Quote from: Nerdy doctor on April 27, 2022, 07:14:27 AM

Russia has carried out its threat to shut off gas supplies to countries that has refused to pay in roubles. It has cut off gas supply delivery to both Poland and Bulgaria. I had earlier mentioned that Russia had threatened to shut off gas supplies to countries that has refused to pay in roubles and now, it has made good its threat by shutting off gas delivery to both Poland and Bulgaria. The EU has responded saying this is gas blackmail while gas prices has increased by 20%. Russia says the move is in response to both countries refusing to pay in roubles while the roubles gains about a percent to the dollar.

Yes, I also saw this news, but I don’t see anything special in it, since there was news that Poland continued to receive the same Russian gas, but only from Germany. If this news is true, then both news don't really mean anything, because, as a result, Russian gas continues to be bought but for rubles. Is this good or bad? Well, if we proceed from the fact that Russian gas, then it has the right to sell it for the currency that it considers necessary for itself. As for those countries that need Russian gas, what difference does it make for what currency to buy it, because in any case you will buy goods that are vital for you and the currency in this case does not play a role. As for the refusal to buy Russian gas or other energy sources, here each country has the right to decide for itself what to do, primarily from the point of view of its own needs. If you don't need gas, well, don't buy it; if you need it, then buy it, what's the actual problem?

YOSHIE

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Quote from: Nerdy doctor on April 27, 2022, 07:14:27 AM

Russia has carried out its threat to shut off gas supplies to countries that has refused to pay in roubles.

Poland and bulgaria can actually make gas payments with bitcoin, if they want, there is a policy from russia in that, like china and turkey.

Russia may accept Bitcoin as oil and gas export payments from friendly countries.

Quote

Faced with sanctions from the West for the invasion of Ukraine, Russia is considering allowing “friendly” countries such as China and Turkey to make payment for its oil and gas exports in Bitcoin.

We know the ruble is currently experiencing serious problems due to the West Sanctions that have not ceased to impose sanctions on Russia, since the invasion occurred between Russia vs. Ukraine, especially gas and the ruble suffered many losses because the ruble continued to hit.

I don't think Russia should make threats against Poland and Bulgaria, because Russia has taken Bitcoin as an alternative to gas payments, instead of rubles.

TheCoinGrabber

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Quote from: TheBeardedBaby on April 27, 2022, 12:58:21 PM

Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on April 27, 2022, 11:59:11 AM

Summer can't come soon enough don't it?

According to the government information, we have reserves for 90 days (based on the winte rconsumption rates) so this scenario was expected after the expulsion of a dozen of Russian citizens conspiring against our country and spying for Russia.We were one of the first countries to colse our airspace for Russian airplanes so we were havely criticised for those actions and there were many threads from the Russian side. It was just a matter of time that to happen.

Which of those 2 countries are you from? And does the government already have plans where it'll source its gas for next winter? I suppose if there's no preexisting pipeline to an alternative source it'll be very expensive to build one and might not be operational within a year.

Freeesta

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Quote from: Nerdy doctor on April 27, 2022, 07:14:27 AM

Russia has carried out its threat to shut off gas supplies to countries that has refused to pay in roubles. It has cut off gas supply delivery to both Poland and Bulgaria. I had earlier mentioned that Russia had threatened to shut off gas supplies to countries that has refused to pay in roubles and now, it has made good its threat by shutting off gas delivery to both Poland and Bulgaria. The EU has responded saying this is gas blackmail while gas prices has increased by 20%. Russia says the move is in response to both countries refusing to pay in roubles while the roubles gains about a percent to the dollar.

Why not? Russia has the right to do so. If it cannot use foreign exchange reserves now, then what is the point of selling something for foreign currency now. Before the imposition of sanctions against Russia, there was no talk of paying for gas in the national currency. Everything is correct. Russia must take care of its people and this is happening now. If you don't want to pay in rubles = don't pay.

DrBeer

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on April 29, 2022, 02:51:10 AM

Quote from: Haunebu on April 29, 2022, 12:13:36 AM

Quote from: mindrust on April 28, 2022, 11:19:49 PM

Russia showed they are serious about this. Either the European countries or Russia will have to step back imo but right now none of the parties look like they are going to. Poland and Bulgaria will have to make a choice now. 1- Go along with Russia and not freeze. 2- Find an alternative supplier.

Agreed. Russia continue to screw their reputation by acting like gangsters in this manner which won't do them any good in the long-term as more and more countries continue forming negative opinions about them for various reasons.

Objectively speaking, I'm not defending Russia.

From Russia's own viewpoint, they are required to demand it because they need to have a market to maintain the value of the Ruble, or their own citizens will suffer. Russia has something European countries need, and they simply ask to be paid in the Ruble. It's a business proposition.

I believe some European countries are starting to agree, or it's their citizens who will suffer.

What Russia is doing is called economic/gas blackmail and terrorism. They stopped gas supplies more than once, and even before the imposition of sanctions. They stopped simply to force some countries to fulfill their "fantasies". But now their blackmail has ceased to be conducted. Some lured rulers, of course, continue to play along with the Kremlin, but these are units that do not affect anything.
Understand - Russia's blackmail is like gangrene or cancer that eats a living organism a little bit at a time. Sometimes it is necessary, in order to SAVE the whole organism, to sacrifice something, and even remove entire organs, or amputate parts of limbs. But this is the only way to stop the disease. So it is with blackmail - they stopped fulfilling Russian illegal requirements, they "tighten their belts" with gas a little, they start deliveries along new routes, and they will forever forget about the nightmare of relations with Russia! The question is what will Russia then do with oil and gas that no one buys?

istiak2277

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Quote from: DrBeer on April 29, 2022, 08:11:38 AM

Quote from: mindrust on April 28, 2022, 11:19:49 PM

Russia showed they are serious about this. Either the European countries or Russia will have to step back imo but right now none of the parties look like they are going to. Poland and Bulgaria will have to make a choice now. 1- Go along with Russia and not freeze. 2- Find an alternative supplier.

The second option is the favorable one but it is also the hardest choice because there isn't a country which can replace Russia.

Why are you talking such nonsense?

Read carefully how Poland will replace Russian gas supplies from a nutty supplier? In the 4th quarter, a new gas line will be launched, which will more than compensate for gas supplies disrupted by the Russian side. But after that, Poland and Bulgaria will NEVER buy gas from inadequate Russia! And Russia will have to put it somewhere. And if you didn't know - I'll tell you a secret - Russia has almost no global gas storage facilities. And the extracted gas will have to be ... just burned. Billions of dollars down the drain! This is the reality....

If this is true, then I need to say it's bad news for Poland and Bulgaria. We have seen how desperate Russia is about its fuel business in Europe. They even invade a country because of this. If Russia thinks Poland and Bulgaria are threatening their fuel business, then they could attack them too. The only safe solution for a European country in my opinion is to keep peace with Russia as long as possible and build military strength as soon as possible. It is not wise to risk your country against a superior enemy.

Moneyprism

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it is indeed russia's right to close the export of gas end oil to european countries ... but what matters is how russia violates the contracts they have signed with european countries in gas and oil trade .. but even so i support the policy this russia

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Quote from: Yogee on April 28, 2022, 06:45:51 PM

Do you have a complete map of the gas pipelines from Russia to the rest of European countries? I'm also curious about the potential impact of this to the political landscape in the region.

Here you go since nobody posted one:

Simply put all gas pipelines go through these countries Poland Ukraine and Turkey.
Moreover, if Bulgaria shuts down its pipelines there is no way for Serbia to get gas, there is no alternate route for them.
So this whole Russian cut the gases for countries is an empty threat, all that needs to be done if you still want to buy is "buy" it from Germany as Russia will never cut gas to them nor it is able to stop Germany from reselling it.

As for the whole threat of paying in rubles or so, they've cave in pretty easy and early on:

Quote from: adaseb on April 28, 2022, 11:06:27 PM

Yes it looks like many countries are starting to purchase Rubles because their currency pair is gaining a lot of traction. Wondering what Poland will do in the winter. I am assuming they are hoping this war is over by then and things will go back to normal.
However if it’s not over they will have no choice but to pay in Rubles. What other choice do they have. They got a reserve but it won’t last a long time. And in the cold winter they will have to comply to Russia’s demands because they don’t want their citizens to freeze.

Poland is getting its gas from Norway, they've announced from January before the war they will not purchase any Russian gas starting 2023, so n, nobody is going to freeze without Russian gas, just like all of us in Europe managed somehow to not freeze during the winters before there were any pipelines to Russia in the first place.

DrBeer

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Quote from: mindrust on April 28, 2022, 11:19:49 PM

Russia showed they are serious about this. Either the European countries or Russia will have to step back imo but right now none of the parties look like they are going to. Poland and Bulgaria will have to make a choice now. 1- Go along with Russia and not freeze. 2- Find an alternative supplier.

The second option is the favorable one but it is also the hardest choice because there isn't a country which can replace Russia.

Why are you talking such nonsense?

Read carefully how Poland will replace Russian gas supplies from a nutty supplier? In the 4th quarter, a new gas line will be launched, which will more than compensate for gas supplies disrupted by the Russian side. But after that, Poland and Bulgaria will NEVER buy gas from inadequate Russia! And Russia will have to put it somewhere. And if you didn't know - I'll tell you a secret - Russia has almost no global gas storage facilities. And the extracted gas will have to be ... just burned. Billions of dollars down the drain! This is the reality....

Nerdy doctor

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on April 28, 2022, 08:06:29 PM

Quote from: NeuroticFish on April 27, 2022, 08:05:08 AM

It will get interesting to watch how the politics will be developing now.

It's already interesting, but I'm afraid that this situation will turn from "interesting" to horrifying if it turns into WWIII when the West gets involved with their own military forces--and I'm talking potential nuclear conflict. As someone who lives in North America, the Russia/Ukraine conflict seems very distant, but I'm sure that's the way it felt here when Germany was trying to take over Europe in the 1930s. There comes a point where the western powers won't sit on the sidelines anymore and watch a dictator expand his empire through force. Granted, it took Pearl Harbor before the US entered WWII, but this is a different time and the US has a different president, so who knows.

I have yet to see Putin making any statements. Is that because he's being silent on the media or is it just that everything he says is being censored in the West? I'd like to hear what he has to say, and not filtered through someone else's mouth.

I think it's past interesting now and we should now be concerned on where all this is heading. There's an energy crisis coupled with inflation on the rise. There's also food crisis cause of the invasion which looks far from over as Ukraine is determined to fight back. With the west supplying them weapons and ammo, this could drag out for long.
This could very well turn into a bigger conflict if NATO gets involved with Poland being so close. I wonder what's going on in Putin head and what he's thinking. He probably envisioned these sanctions would come.
In his crazy drive to annex breakaway and now independent states, this could turn very ugly very fast.
I doubt the UN chief visit would change anything

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: Haunebu on April 29, 2022, 12:13:36 AM

Quote from: mindrust on April 28, 2022, 11:19:49 PM

Russia showed they are serious about this. Either the European countries or Russia will have to step back imo but right now none of the parties look like they are going to. Poland and Bulgaria will have to make a choice now. 1- Go along with Russia and not freeze. 2- Find an alternative supplier.

Agreed. Russia continue to screw their reputation by acting like gangsters in this manner which won't do them any good in the long-term as more and more countries continue forming negative opinions about them for various reasons.

Objectively speaking, I'm not defending Russia.

From Russia's own viewpoint, they are required to demand it because they need to have a market to maintain the value of the Ruble, or their own citizens will suffer. Russia has something European countries need, and they simply ask to be paid in the Ruble. It's a business proposition.

I believe some European countries are starting to agree, or it's their citizens who will suffer.

Topic: Russia suspends gas supplies to Poland and Bulgaria for failing to pay in rouble - page 2. (Read 605 times)