Topic: Russia willing to consider loans to Greece (Read 2123 times)

The life expectancy in Russia is a little bit lower when compared to its neighbors. For example, the life expectancy was 70.9 years in 2014, compared to 77 years in Poland, and 74 years in Bulgaria. But it has improved quite a lot during the recent years. And the Russian population is not shriking. It is growing at a rate of 300,000 per year.

The first part of this is certainly true in theory, however people have been promising it for a looooooong time and it hasn't proven out in the slightest so far. You can always claim time is on your side, however you have no evidence to support the claim right now. The second part of this is opinion I don't care enough to rebut.

They provide loan to Greece for the extension of gas pipeline which will pass through Turkey to Europe.

Besides that Oil, natural gas, metals, and timber account for more than 80% of Russian exports abroad. According to famous news channels, Russia is considered well ahead of most other resource-rich countries in its economic development, with a long tradition of education, science, and industry.

Official statistics for demography dynamics:
http://www.gks.ru/wps/wcm/connect/rosstat_main/rosstat/ru/statistics/population/demography/
Blue: number of births, red: number of deaths

Population for RF in total and by region:
http://www.gks.ru/free_doc/new_site/population/generation/dem1.xlsx
Totals:
2012: 143056400
2013: 143347100
2014: 143666900

Life expectancy for men and women after reached 60 and after reached 55 (2005-2013):
http://www.gks.ru/free_doc/new_site/population/generation/dem2.xlsx

While this might be a interesting subject, I'm afraid that we might be straying away too far from the original subject. It's quite unfortunate to see some countries slowly dying. It's not just a matter of the EU, it is also a problem with some countries outside of it. The justice system isn't doing their job properly in addition to a high amount of corruption. That can't lead to good things.

I actually have a friend who lives in Greece. I remember us talking, even a few years back he was complaining about the situation. His family was barely able to survive due to the conditions and they were making huge salary cuts to everyone. Unfortunately, also people with huge potential get affected by this and they probably don't have possibility to use it.
I've just read something about Russia having a low life expectancy, and that their population is shrinking.

The United States's ability to borrow will diminish, as the net debt mount beyond a certain limit. And the Russian troubles are just temporary.

The Baltics (I can speak mostly for Lithuania) have gone through the same process of de-industrialisation and and de-agriculture that Russia after 1992 and Greece after it joined EU. If you take a ride outside Vilnius, you'll see a lot of neglected fields. Abandoned factories are everywhere. Our family's friends worked at a drills factory in Vilnius, which supplied USSR with high-precision drills. The factory got privatised/turned into a cooperative in 1990, and in 1992 it got sold and closed down. The country has been turned into a good consumer, but for work, people look outside of the country. While bashing everything Soviet, Lithuania still lives on the dwindling heritage from the Soviet time. There is one indicator that i found funny: the manhole covers in the streets. If one cares to pay attention to such details, they are all from before 1992, some are as old as from 1970s - it feels like time stopped and no new constructions/repaiers of infrastructure has been done since then. The public transportation park is also largely from the 80s. What I didn't find in Lituania, is antagonism between common Lithuanians and Russians. You hear Russian and Lithuanian speech everywhere, often within the same conversation...

EDIT: And the most important bit. Lithuania switched to Euro this January. From what I've been told, prices are silently creeping up since then, as many sellers simply switch the Lit sign to €, leaving the amount on the tag unchanged.

Here are some pics that I took in Vilnius, just 10-15 minutes walk away from the tourist centre. These are like they are coming strait out of Half-Life 2's City17...






And here is a manhole lock, one of many, from LitSSR, the last 2 numbers is year - 1974:


PS: And there are long queues in front of the Belorussian embassy - people going there for work or to visit families. Belorussia, being the only USSR's republic that didn't get plundered and didn't succumb to the post-Soviet syndrome.

That's interesting. I was only partially aware of the problems that Russia had (has), however I had no idea that it was this extreme. It is good to see that they are in the process of rebuilding themselves from within. They have a lot of natural resources and shouldn't have that many problems. I never said that Russia was perfect, however calling them bankrupt is just wrong.
Look at the countries that have an unemployment rate of 30% or more.

According to Wikipedia (February 2015), Greece has an unemployment of 25.5%. Why are the Baltic states going to encounter problems?

While the recurrent statement that "Russia is bankrupt" is in the category of a wishful thinking lie at best (at worst it's a market-manipulating propaganda on par with the numerous "Bitcoin is dead" meme from those, who wish to buy in cheaper), as with every well-crafted lie, this one too is based on some truth. Russian economy is not optimal. It's agriculture suffered a long period of neglect (from 1992 onwards) and the industry only started rebuilding after a complete destruction during the 90s. As Russia is operating as an open free market (alas, freer than, say, the US market), there was little incentive to invest into agriculture and industry - why bother with initial investments and waiting for ROI, when there was bigger profit to be made at once buying the ready-made stuff from abroad and reselling it on the domestic market?

In that sense, the sanctions imposed on Russia and the resulting counter-sanctions are as a breath of fresh air for a suffocating person. Russia is going now through a process of rebuilding, so some hardships are to be expected.

An interesting read in this regard is the following article:
http://stanislavs.org/for-russia-90s-were-worse-than-wwii/

And the same can be said about Greece. After it joined the EU, both it's industry and agriculture were systematically destroyed and limited by various directives from Brussels. This crisis may well be for Greece the last chance to regain its sovereignty and rebuild its economy. And, mark my words, the same problems that Greece is facing now, will in a short time come to the surface in the Baltic states...

All markets are cyclical, Greece could well be a fulcrum. The IMF US hegemony are reaching their zenith, for Greece it's a perfect opportunity switch and ride the Bricks swing that will inevitably follow

This two-dimensional financial analysis focuses only on a single metric, and ignores the most important factor: ability to borrow / creditworthiness. Until the US government cannot borrow or has as much trouble borrowing as Russia does, it cannot be said to be in financial trouble. With Russian government bonds yielding over 10%, and the US yielding 2.4%, the world markets have spoken about which country is in more financial trouble.

Fix

He didn't read any posts, he is part of a signature campaign. Most of the participants usually try replying without reading anything which tends to be obvious at times.
Just a comparison of the USA with an unemployment rate of 5.5%:



I often heard from people that Russia is in a bad state and whatnot. I'm yet to figure out why is that. Is it their own ignorance or are they being influenced by the media?

Did you read the post just above your? Who told you that Russia is broke?

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/gold-reserves



http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/unemployment-rate



http://www.tradingeconomics.com/articles/05062015141245.htm

Although Russia is broke, this is a good way for Russia to gain new allies as the EU will not lend to Greece without any austerity conditions.
Russia can have influence in Greece which will give them more room in Southern Europe.

Whom do you call "broke and homeless" here. Don't fall for the Western MSM wishful thinking propaganda that wants you to think that Russia is in economic trouble. Nothing is further from the truth.

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You can demonise Russia all you want. I don't think attempts to drive a wedge between Russia and Greece will work. Russia and Greece have several centuries of good, mutually-benefitial relations.

To those asking what Greece has to export. Before it joined EU, Greece was one of the to ship-building countries. Wouldn't it be good if it reclaimed that position?

Also, everyone should ask themselves: why is USA so desperate as to sabotage any gas pipeline that would bypass Ukraine? Because USA has a tight grip on Ukraine and can thus blackmail both EU (if you don't as we say, we'll disrupt the gas supply) and Russia (if you don't do as we say, you'll lose revenue from gas sales as the transit will be disrupted).

As it stands now, if Ukraine was a stable state, it should be the same for EU if the gas comes through Ukraine or Greece. With Ukraine in the last death throws, EU should be interested to get the same gas supply through a more reliable source.

It is, but they need allies. And of course, EU being that rigorous to Greece, will make Greek govt. seek refuge under a different wing. They should cut them some slack, or this could become reallity.

Of course Russian financial aid to Greece was not discussed, it's like expecting one broke homeless guy to lend rent money to another broke homeless guy, it's simply not doable .

Playing with the devil. By giving loan to Greece Russia will gain influence in the Europe and that is exactly what she wants.