Russia would ban miners from receiving rewards in bitcoins and cryptocurrencies - page 2.

malevolent

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Quote from: zasad@ on February 26, 2021, 03:15:12 PM

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So a house can have a 30 kW connection, that "hour" you added was what caused the confusion. 30 kW * 24 h * 30 d = 21600 kWh. If the cottages are cheap that could make sense, that's 6x S19 Pro per cottage, or about $5k per month at $0.02 / kWh at current price and difficulty levels.

Streets 2.0

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Submitting to your will or taking control of the entire industry in Russia, as in any other country, will completely fail! However, steps to regulate and move the cryptocurrency world out of the gray zone are already a good sign. I think soon many advanced countries that care about the future of their economies will integrate cryptocurrency.

zasad@

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Quote from: stompix on February 26, 2021, 02:32:05 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on February 25, 2021, 03:25:26 PM

Every citizen can buy a piece of land to build a house. The maximum consumption limit is 30 Kilowatts / hour per home. You can buy several plots of land. These cottage villages are built specifically for mining, people do not live there and the noise does not bother anyone.

Once you start thinking of moving to another city buying a plot of land and so on and on that's no longer "home" mining.
I'm not familiar with the stuff there, I only know the western part of Russia but still, that 30kw/h per home is weird, are you sure about it? Because 30KW being continuously drawn from the grid it's no normal house wiring. I see the average house consumption in Russia is 600kwh per month, that limit you're talking about is 720kwh a day.
Of course, it might be possible but I am a bit skeptical.

In my region, a private house can consume a maximum of 15 KW
Here is one of the articles that says how to conclude a contract for the supply of electricity to a private house (15 KW).
https://klimatlab.com/elektrosnabzhenie/podklyuchenie-k-elektrosetyam-chastnogo-doma-15-kvt-poshagovaya-instrukciya.html

"To connect 30 kilowatts or more, you need to buy a house in a place where there is no gas or and central heating. Therefore, your heating will be electric. The project also indicates a bath with an electric stove."
I did not study the details, people write that you need to pay 1-2 thousand dollars to a private company and it will draw up the necessary documents in a few months, and then the house will be connected. This is possible only in those regions where there is a huge surplus of produced electricity.
I was offered to invest in such a project.

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Quote from: zasad@ on February 25, 2021, 03:25:26 PM

Every citizen can buy a piece of land to build a house. The maximum consumption limit is 30 Kilowatts / hour per home. You can buy several plots of land. These cottage villages are built specifically for mining, people do not live there and the noise does not bother anyone.

Once you start thinking of moving to another city buying a plot of land and so on and on that's no longer "home" mining.
I'm not familiar with the stuff there, I only know the western part of Russia but still, that 30kw/h per home is weird, are you sure about it? Because 30KW being continuously drawn from the grid it's no normal house wiring. I see the average house consumption in Russia is 600kwh per month, that limit you're talking about is 720kwh a day.
Of course, it might be possible but I am a bit skeptical.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Yeah, and many Russians run their equipment in cooperative garages having almost the free electricity cost. Wink

As I was saying in my first message, that's not home mining. Grin

Once the gear is out of your house where you sleep it no longer fits that description.

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Quote from: malevolent on February 25, 2021, 02:35:29 PM

Quote from: stompix on February 25, 2021, 01:40:01 PM

Besides, you will never be able to compete with a business that can negotiate in terms of MW.

It's not going to last forever, it's a matter of time before miners and many other businesses are forced to pay CO2 taxes, one way or another. Industrial cryptocurrency mining is especially likely to be targeted, and even going abroad might not be enough depending on the negotiated international agreements. That could relegate mining back to homes assuming consumption of electricity generated from renewables wouldn't be treated differently.

https://cbeci.org/mining_map
Russia ranks third in bitcoin mining in the world. And then there is Ethereum and many other altcoins.
Mining taxes in Russia are still not paid and there is no law on their payment.
In Russia there are tax regimes that allow you to declare income, so the source of income can be indicated in the declaration: IT services.
But most of the income is not declared.

zasad@

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Quote from: stompix on February 25, 2021, 01:40:01 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

The coming Russian's ban is a clear sham the aim being to take the home miners off the market to clear the road for the big guys.

Home miners as in a guy running his farm in his apartment has been killed by Bitmain and Cannan a long time ago.
The S19pro is doing 3250W and the A12 3420W, with the usual wiring in blocks of flats all over Eastern Europe anything more than one of those on one circuit is going to blow your breaker, the standard all around here for maximum power draw was between 5.5-7.5 kw, in theory, not even talking about the noise those things make.

Maybe new flats that are being built in the last decade have better wiring since more power-hungry electric appliances have become popular like electric ovens, air conditioning but those are just a drop in the ocean and they are not over that limit by much. Besides, you will never be able to compete with a business that can negotiate in terms of MW.

I read the miners forum. In Russia, the cheapest electricity is in the Irkutsk region ($ 0.020).
Every citizen can buy a piece of land to build a house. The maximum consumption limit is 30 Kilowatts / hour per home. You can buy several plots of land. These cottage villages are built specifically for mining, people do not live there and the noise does not bother anyone.
And according to the law, a citizen's home is inviolable.
Miners pay only for light and security

malevolent

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Quote from: stompix on February 25, 2021, 01:40:01 PM

Besides, you will never be able to compete with a business that can negotiate in terms of MW.

It's not going to last forever, it's a matter of time before miners and many other businesses are forced to pay CO2 taxes, one way or another. Industrial cryptocurrency mining is especially likely to be targeted, and even going abroad might not be enough depending on the negotiated international agreements. That could relegate mining back to homes assuming consumption of electricity generated from renewables would be treated differently.

stompix

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Quote from: ?? on ??

The coming Russian's ban is a clear sham the aim being to take the home miners off the market to clear the road for the big guys.

Home miners as in a guy running his farm in his apartment has been killed by Bitmain and Cannan a long time ago.
The S19pro is doing 3250W and the A12 3420W, with the usual wiring in blocks of flats all over Eastern Europe anything more than one of those on one circuit is going to blow your breaker, the standard all around here for maximum power draw was between 5.5-7.5 kw, in theory, not even talking about the noise those things make.

Maybe new flats that are being built in the last decade have better wiring since more power-hungry electric appliances have become popular like electric ovens, air conditioning but those are just a drop in the ocean and they are not over that limit by much. Besides, you will never be able to compete with a business that can negotiate in terms of MW.

Streets 2.0

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Well, Mother Russia, as always, is in the tail of such events. While all normal countries are occupied with deregulation and opening the market for investment in cryptocurrency and somewhere they even accept payment in supermarkets ... Russia is going through regulation and bans! What news! In the end, we will see how the big pie of the cryptocurrency market will be divided by "smart" countries, and everyone else will be forced to catch up in development. block chain is the future and already the present. It is a pity that not all managers understand this now.

imstillthebest

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Quote

as a miner you wont be allowed take the incentives, basically killing the mining industry running in Russia and there might be reasons regarding power consumption but i does not say anything banning the use of cryptocurrency.
They can restrict the miners but it is impossible to ban trading.

crypto mining is like a job . when you work you expect for a salary but if you are prohibited to recieve your salary why will you still continue working but this dont totally kill the mining industry in that country because they didnt include that creating a miner and selling it for a fiat is illegal .

is the electricity cheap in russia and they think that russian miners are earning good in mining but if they can reduced the rewards taken by miners and continue allowing the miners to work , that can be a better idea .

zasad@

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Quote from: Streets 2.0 on February 14, 2021, 03:55:40 PM

In order for Russia to become one of the countries actively mentioned in this issue with a positive agenda, a well-thought-out policy in the field of lawmaking is needed. So that all market participants feel comfortable and understand what will happen tomorrow. We must understand that regulation is often carried out by people without the necessary competencies, and therefore instead of unloading the industry, it turns out to be bureaucratized and constrained.

Everything that is happening in Russia now can be described in the words of the famous classic writer Fyodor Tyutchev (1866):

"Умoм — Poccию нe пoнять,
Apшинoм oбщим нe измepить.
У нeй ocoбeннaя cтaть —
B Poccию мoжнo тoлькo вepить."
The author of the poem Fedor Tyutchev(C)

There are still many translations into English, because it is very difficult to translate these 4 lines of the poem into other languages:

"You will not grasp her with your mind
Or cover with a common label,
For Russia is one of a kind –
Believe in her, if you are able..."

or

"Russia cannot be understood with the mind alone,
No ordinary yardstick can span her greatness:
She stands alone, unique –
In Russia, one can only believe."

Source:
https://ruthenia.ru/tiutcheviana/publications/trans/umomrossiju.html#en

Streets 2.0

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In order for Russia to become one of the countries actively mentioned in this issue with a positive agenda, a well-thought-out policy in the field of lawmaking is needed. So that all market participants feel comfortable and understand what will happen tomorrow. We must understand that regulation is often carried out by people without the necessary competencies, and therefore instead of unloading the industry, it turns out to be bureaucratized and constrained.

zasad@

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Nothing has changed in Russia regarding cryptocurrencies.
Black markets are open in many major cities, and you can easily exchange cryptocurrency for fiat.
I saw several news reports that miners who were stealing electricity were detained. But on the scale of a huge country, nothing changes.
The controls are tightening, but this is leading to the growth and development of the black market throughout the country.

Clement Kaliyar

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Quote from: Argoo on January 18, 2021, 10:04:08 AM

In Russia, there is such contradictory and stupid legislation on cryptocurrency that one involuntarily asks the question: if there are no fools, then why are they doing it. You can have cryptocurrency, but you can't use it.

Not sure whether you read what is published, it says as a miner you wont be allowed take the incentives, basically killing the mining industry running in Russia and there might be reasons regarding power consumption but i does not say anything banning the use of cryptocurrency.
They can restrict the miners but it is impossible to ban trading.

Argoo

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In Russia, there is such contradictory and stupid legislation on cryptocurrency that one involuntarily asks the question: if there are no fools, then why are they doing it. You can have cryptocurrency, but you can't use it. Or Putin is inconvenient to completely prohibit cryptocurrency, after all, he has previously spoken positively about it. I see that if Putin reigns a little more, then cryptocurrency will be practically banned in Russia on pain of criminal liability. So we'll see if the state can control its laws to ban cryptocurrency.

zasad@

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Quote from: skyline65 on December 31, 2020, 04:05:24 AM

I think some geo-politics also involve in this, because i heard some news that PM tenure will be finished. That's why he is taking some unpredictable steps against miners. Russia's very friendly country china till now didnot imposed any strong steps against miners. And I dont think in Russia there is lack of power.

Probably Miners should move their operation to the free country. Because in some near future they will definitely take the power-cut steps aganinst them.

In russia, a large number of industries were destroyed due to a long crisis. Many factories use their mining capabilities. They either lease premises to miners or try to mine cryptocurrency on their own.
Statistics:
https://cbeci.org/mining_map
If you start to fight miners, it will cause great losses to the country's energy enterprises.
Therefore, I think that the government will develop a taxation system for miners. So far I've only read projects.

dansus021

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Quote from: skyline65 on December 31, 2020, 04:05:24 AM

I think some geo-politics also involve in this, because i heard some news that PM tenure will be finished. That's why he is taking some unpredictable steps against miners. Russia's very friendly country china till now didnot imposed any strong steps against miners. And I dont think in Russia there is lack of power.

Probably Miners should move their operation to the free country. Because in some near future they will definitely take the power-cut steps aganinst them.

Yeah i dont see anything way bitcoin miner get banned on rusia and i aggree with you about china since most biggest miner happen in there and also they are bitcoin chip maker right. if i in russia i will start considering cloud mining event this kinda high risk or using PoS algorithm to stake some altcoin right

skyline65

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I think some geo-politics also involve in this, because i heard some news that PM tenure will be finished. That's why he is taking some unpredictable steps against miners. Russia's very friendly country china till now didnot imposed any strong steps against miners. And I dont think in Russia there is lack of power.

Probably Miners should move their operation to the free country. Because in some near future they will definitely take the power-cut steps aganinst them.

zasad@

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Quote from: malevolent on September 18, 2020, 06:59:07 PM

In Germany one Bitcoin ATM operator got rid of competition by encouraging the adoption and enforcement of burdensome regulations. Link. Not that much different, although in Russia everything is always at another level, I heard it's often officials themselves using their powers to take over businesses to enrich themselves.

People not only become officials in order to take over someone else's business, but also sew up their own or receive bribes.
Russia offers great opportunities, unlike other countries. If you invest $ 1,000,000 in a business, then in the USA or Europe you will honestly pay taxes and earn 5-10% profit per year.
In Russia, you earn 100% of the annual profit, and if you have the necessary acquaintances, then 50% of the profits will be taken from you, and the rest will remain with you. Even if 80% of your profits are taken away from you, your investment will still be more successful.
If someone thinks that there are stupid laws in Russia, he is wrong. All these laws are being written so that officials, security officials and other controlling organizations have more power over business.

malevolent

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In Germany one Bitcoin ATM operator got rid of competition by encouraging the adoption and enforcement of burdensome regulations. Link. Not that much different, although in Russia everything is always at another level, I heard it's often officials themselves using their powers to take over businesses to enrich themselves.

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