Satoshi ..Private key lost? - page 4.

AtheistAKASaneBrain

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Quote from: dserrano5 on November 24, 2014, 04:00:45 AM

My personal stance on this is that satoshi intentionally deleted the private keys used to receive the early mining subsidies, despite his advice not to delete privkeys ever. His motivation to mine was to bootstrap the network and have transactions confirmed, not hoarding coins. He may be keeping some hundreds/thousands of BTC mined in 2010/2011 but probably those coins have already been moved. So we have both a) he has a lot of coins, b) early subsidies will never move.

Another plausible option is that he keeps them, but plans to cash them out gradually and going backwards in time, starting with the most recently mined blocks, so the market gets no sudden surprise over old coins moving. As older subsidies are spent our suspicion it's him will gradually grow and at some point we'll be totally sure but a lot of time will have passed and the market will have discounted it.

So why wouldn't he just make a huge giveaway and give like 1 BTC to random people? it's way better than just having a shitton of coins that will be lost forever..

tzortz

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Not movng does not make them unavailable.

bitkilo

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https://www.bitcoin.com/

I read that coindesk article and also know the coin have not moved but i would rather see proof of the coins being burned than just beliving satoshi has lost the keys, it would stop a lot of speculation of what may happen in the future if he did sell.
I still belive those coins will never move.

Ron~Popeil

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Quote from: jyakulis on November 25, 2014, 12:04:04 PM

My line of thinking is with the promissory note access to the bitcoin architecture it would allow for people to say buy a house or a car or property. The note could actually be constructed in bitcoin payments as opposed to dollar values. So, you could start ignoring the fiat price. The note would promote a legal background for larger higher ticket items to be used. What the holder of the property wants to do with the bitcoins or whether the property holder would want to use the bitcoins or accept the note would be completely up to the property holder. On their end the deed or title would be attached somehow to the software.\

It could be a cross group project like legal zoom, multibit, and coindesk.

You would need price stability for such high ticket items over time. Of course you could build in some clauses about price swings as well I would imagine. The idea could be a great one and a truly good way to get the banks out of our houses as well.

RodeoX

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The revolution will be monetized!

Although there are these early addresses with a lot of bitcoin, we should remember that there is no evidence that Satoshi owns any bitcoin at all. It seems logical that he does, but no one knows.

jyakulis

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J

My line of thinking is with the promissory note access to the bitcoin architecture it would allow for people to say buy a house or a car or property. The note could actually be constructed in bitcoin payments as opposed to dollar values. So, you could start ignoring the fiat price. The note would promote a legal background for larger higher ticket items to be used. What the holder of the property wants to do with the bitcoins or whether the property holder would want to use the bitcoins or accept the note would be completely up to the property holder. On their end the deed or title would be attached somehow to the software.\

It could be a cross group project like legal zoom, multibit, and coindesk.

jyakulis

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J

Look at page 6 of the link I posted. You would need the requirements listed in the table I believe and I "think" an electronic signature would suffice for such purposes. Why can't there be a simple software solution linked to a coin or payment time period. You could enter your criteria. (amount, number of payments, distribution of payments, due date, penalty for late payment, and electronic signature).

jyakulis

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J

Or he could be waiting to spend those bitcoins tax free.

Common Uses
Promissory notes have had an interesting history. At times, they have circulated as a form of alternate currency, free of government control. In some places, the currency is a form of promissory note called a demand promissory note (a note with no stated maturity date, allowing the lender to decide when to demand payment). In the United States, however, promissory notes have been issued only to corporate and sophisticated investors. Recently, however, promissory notes are also seeing increasing use when it comes to selling homes and securing mortgages. (For related reading, see From Barter To Banknotes.)

I'm telling you guys promissory notes. Get a platform to construct them in an easy set up of all the criterion necessary with an e sig and it could work I think. I reckon I'm going to have to do all the reading and research on this one. The government challenges you have access to common law court if they say not legal tender or whatever they would try to pull.

https://www.legalzoom.com/sites/legalzoom.com/themes/legalzoom/assets/includes/Promissory-Note-Comparison-Guide.pdf

jmw74

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Quote from: turvarya on November 25, 2014, 06:17:23 AM

Quote from: jmw74 on November 25, 2014, 04:51:22 AM

Quote from: turvarya on November 25, 2014, 04:37:41 AM

Quote from: jmw74 on November 24, 2014, 10:38:57 AM

Quote from: turvarya on November 24, 2014, 08:37:32 AM

Quote from: justusranvier on November 24, 2014, 08:28:23 AM

Quote from: jehst on November 24, 2014, 06:49:56 AM

If there is mass acceptance, dumps won't be necessary. He won't need fiat.

A lot of people don't seem to understand that if Bitcoin is successful it will be the money - currency trading as an industry and occupation won't exist any more because there won't be other currencies to exchange.

That is just idealistic bullshit.
Bitcoin can take a major part in the world without destroying fiat completely. There can also be other cryptocurrencies besides bitcoin.
Bitcoin will definitely never be the only money on earth.

I don't see any reason for fiat to stick around, unless it's by force. Let's imagine bitcoin is accepted everywhere, what possible reason would you have to accept anything else? Perhaps a different coin is more anonymous or has some technical feature. But bitcoin could probably copy those features. And there's always off-chain transactions (which still use bitcoin as the unit of account).

I don't necessarily think everyone's coffee purchases will be on the blockchain, but could see all the prices being in bitcoin.

Some months ago, I met a friend of mine, since he was in my city. He was there, because he had to deliver some blue prints and a 3D-model to a architecture-competition.
I asked him, why he couldn't just send them over the internet and he gave me a lot of stupid reasons like the line width of the blue prints depend on the printer or that it has to be a closed letter so nobody else can see it, yada, yada, yada.
I wasn't able to convince him, that all this things could be guaranteed by sending it over the internet if just somebody took the time to implement something like that.
So, that is the reason, why fiat will not disappear. It is never just about, what the best solution is. It is also about what ignorant people understand and what they are willing to change.

This analogy doesn't hold with currency. A 3d model still works equally well even if no one else in the world still uses them. Fiat currency that no one else uses anymore, is literally worthless, no matter how tenaciously the last holdouts cling to it.

Yes, if no one uses a currency it disappears. That is called circular logic and is worthless.

Exactly - don't use that blueprint analogy because it doesn't fit.

russianptr

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is the exact amount of the old satoshi addresses available? is it really 1 million coins as someone pointed out?

turvarya

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Quote from: jmw74 on November 25, 2014, 04:51:22 AM

Quote from: turvarya on November 25, 2014, 04:37:41 AM

Quote from: jmw74 on November 24, 2014, 10:38:57 AM

Quote from: turvarya on November 24, 2014, 08:37:32 AM

Quote from: justusranvier on November 24, 2014, 08:28:23 AM

Quote from: jehst on November 24, 2014, 06:49:56 AM

If there is mass acceptance, dumps won't be necessary. He won't need fiat.

A lot of people don't seem to understand that if Bitcoin is successful it will be the money - currency trading as an industry and occupation won't exist any more because there won't be other currencies to exchange.

That is just idealistic bullshit.
Bitcoin can take a major part in the world without destroying fiat completely. There can also be other cryptocurrencies besides bitcoin.
Bitcoin will definitely never be the only money on earth.

I don't see any reason for fiat to stick around, unless it's by force. Let's imagine bitcoin is accepted everywhere, what possible reason would you have to accept anything else? Perhaps a different coin is more anonymous or has some technical feature. But bitcoin could probably copy those features. And there's always off-chain transactions (which still use bitcoin as the unit of account).

I don't necessarily think everyone's coffee purchases will be on the blockchain, but could see all the prices being in bitcoin.

Some months ago, I met a friend of mine, since he was in my city. He was there, because he had to deliver some blue prints and a 3D-model to a architecture-competition.
I asked him, why he couldn't just send them over the internet and he gave me a lot of stupid reasons like the line width of the blue prints depend on the printer or that it has to be a closed letter so nobody else can see it, yada, yada, yada.
I wasn't able to convince him, that all this things could be guaranteed by sending it over the internet if just somebody took the time to implement something like that.
So, that is the reason, why fiat will not disappear. It is never just about, what the best solution is. It is also about what ignorant people understand and what they are willing to change.

This analogy doesn't hold with currency. A 3d model still works equally well even if no one else in the world still uses them. Fiat currency that no one else uses anymore, is literally worthless, no matter how tenaciously the last holdouts cling to it.

Yes, if no one uses a currency it disappears. That is called circular logic and is worthless.

jmw74

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Activity: 236

Merit: 100

Quote from: turvarya on November 25, 2014, 04:37:41 AM

Quote from: jmw74 on November 24, 2014, 10:38:57 AM

Quote from: turvarya on November 24, 2014, 08:37:32 AM

Quote from: justusranvier on November 24, 2014, 08:28:23 AM

Quote from: jehst on November 24, 2014, 06:49:56 AM

If there is mass acceptance, dumps won't be necessary. He won't need fiat.

A lot of people don't seem to understand that if Bitcoin is successful it will be the money - currency trading as an industry and occupation won't exist any more because there won't be other currencies to exchange.

That is just idealistic bullshit.
Bitcoin can take a major part in the world without destroying fiat completely. There can also be other cryptocurrencies besides bitcoin.
Bitcoin will definitely never be the only money on earth.

I don't see any reason for fiat to stick around, unless it's by force. Let's imagine bitcoin is accepted everywhere, what possible reason would you have to accept anything else? Perhaps a different coin is more anonymous or has some technical feature. But bitcoin could probably copy those features. And there's always off-chain transactions (which still use bitcoin as the unit of account).

I don't necessarily think everyone's coffee purchases will be on the blockchain, but could see all the prices being in bitcoin.

Some months ago, I met a friend of mine, since he was in my city. He was there, because he had to deliver some blue prints and a 3D-model to a architecture-competition.
I asked him, why he couldn't just send them over the internet and he gave me a lot of stupid reasons like the line width of the blue prints depend on the printer or that it has to be a closed letter so nobody else can see it, yada, yada, yada.
I wasn't able to convince him, that all this things could be guaranteed by sending it over the internet if just somebody took the time to implement something like that.
So, that is the reason, why fiat will not disappear. It is never just about, what the best solution is. It is also about what ignorant people understand and what they are willing to change.

This analogy doesn't hold with currency. A 3d model still works equally well even if no one else in the world still uses them. Fiat currency that no one else uses anymore, is literally worthless, no matter how tenaciously the last holdouts cling to it.

sgk

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!! HODL !!

Whether he is in control of the private keys or he lost access to them does not matter. As far as I believe, he will never touch those coins again in his life. He does not need/want to spend them for money and he also wants to remain as anonymous as possible.

I for one believe the total Bitcoin supply as 20mil, not 21mil. 1mil coins in Satoshi's stash are never going to see the light of the day.

turvarya

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Quote from: jmw74 on November 24, 2014, 10:38:57 AM

Quote from: turvarya on November 24, 2014, 08:37:32 AM

Quote from: justusranvier on November 24, 2014, 08:28:23 AM

Quote from: jehst on November 24, 2014, 06:49:56 AM

If there is mass acceptance, dumps won't be necessary. He won't need fiat.

A lot of people don't seem to understand that if Bitcoin is successful it will be the money - currency trading as an industry and occupation won't exist any more because there won't be other currencies to exchange.

That is just idealistic bullshit.
Bitcoin can take a major part in the world without destroying fiat completely. There can also be other cryptocurrencies besides bitcoin.
Bitcoin will definitely never be the only money on earth.

I don't see any reason for fiat to stick around, unless it's by force. Let's imagine bitcoin is accepted everywhere, what possible reason would you have to accept anything else? Perhaps a different coin is more anonymous or has some technical feature. But bitcoin could probably copy those features. And there's always off-chain transactions (which still use bitcoin as the unit of account).

I don't necessarily think everyone's coffee purchases will be on the blockchain, but could see all the prices being in bitcoin.

Some months ago, I met a friend of mine, since he was in my city. He was there, because he had to deliver some blue prints and a 3D-model to a architecture-competition.
I asked him, why he couldn't just send them over the internet and he gave me a lot of stupid reasons like the line width of the blue prints depend on the printer or that it has to be a closed letter so nobody else can see it, yada, yada, yada.
I wasn't able to convince him, that all this things could be guaranteed by sending it over the internet if just somebody took the time to implement something like that.
So, that is the reason, why fiat will not disappear. It is never just about, what the best solution is. It is also about what ignorant people understand and what they are willing to change.

Crestington

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Quote from: hilariousandco on November 24, 2014, 12:50:33 PM

Quote from: TrianglePythagoras on November 24, 2014, 12:40:48 PM

I personally think satoshi has passed on.

Passed on to better things? Cheesy

It's possible that he has in fact died, but he did announce he'd moved on to other things before he disappeared completely so it's likely he just wanted to leave bitcoin to sustain itself, though of course it's still a possibility he has died since.

No I think he probably died, maybe some panicky government had him offed when they thought Bitcoin was a part of Wikileaks.

bornil267645

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AltoCenter.com

I think he could be Stephen Spielberg waiting in the silence, collecting scripts for the biggest story of all time.

Just a theory!

Argwai96

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Thug for life!

Quote from: Dr. Pepper on November 24, 2014, 12:43:53 PM

Quote from: justspare on November 24, 2014, 12:36:21 PM

may be satoshi didn't want to move his coins
he is not a dumper

Famous last words. You don't know what is going to happen to his coins in the future.

I think it is all but certain that he will eventually sell and/or spend his coins. If he did not intend to ever sell them then he probably would have destroyed them a long time ago.

I find it somewhat far fetched that someone who created something like bitcoin would not have the ability to keep his private keys safe for several years. Also it is likely that he used more then one machine to mine in Bitcoin's early days which would mean that he would have his keys at least initially spread out between a number of computers

keystroke

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advocate of a cryptographic attack on the globe

He's too smart to sell them at this cheap "price" but also too smart to be in it for the money.

trader001

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Not everyone is as wise as Satoshi and want to get himself involved with authority.

hilariousandco

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Quote from: TrianglePythagoras on November 24, 2014, 12:40:48 PM

I personally think satoshi has passed on.

Passed on to better things? Cheesy

It's possible that he has in fact died, but he did announce he'd moved on to other things before he disappeared completely so it's likely he just wanted to leave bitcoin to sustain itself, though of course it's still a possibility he has died since.

Topic: Satoshi ..Private key lost? - page 4. (Read 12760 times)