Satoshi Roundtable Thoughts - Gavin Andresen - page 3.

CIYAM

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Quote from: johnyj on March 07, 2016, 03:47:37 PM

Decision making should not be done by programmers, because they don't know anything about market/economy/finance

That very much depends upon what kind of decisions we are talking about.

When the decisions for Bitcoin are to do with technical things (which so far they still should be until we really do have a "huge demand for coffees") then I think it is better to listen to the engineers than to those who run exchanges that are only interested in making profits and co-operating with governments to spy on people.

The people who "run economies and finance" is the entire reason why Bitcoin actually exists (because they failed - maybe you should read again the message in the genesis block from Satoshi).

(or are you on the side of spying on everyone's txs?)

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Quote from: CIYAM on March 07, 2016, 03:32:04 PM

Quote from: johnyj on March 07, 2016, 03:28:48 PM

When miners had over 40% hash power, they can voluntarily redirect the hash power to reduce the risk of any single party taking control of more than 40%, but when devs had over 90% of control over code, they don't do anything to reduce their control, but centralized more and more and never listen to users, this is enough reason to prevent new users from using bitcoin

You need to listen to yourself - it isn't a question of percentages.

You can't have morons take over control of a project (no matter if 90% of people want them to) otherwise you end up with a train-wreck.

Do you advocate letting morons run a project (just because they might be a statistical majority or even super-majority)?

Decision making should not be done by programmers, because they don't know anything about market/economy/finance

The programmer's only ability is to translate human ideas into machine language, they are just translators, nothing more. The world is not run by translators. Their idea of artificially cap the transaction capacity and squeeze the users into their prepared out of date 3rd party solutions like alt-coin (side chain) and prepaid card (LN) is of ultimate stupidity

CIYAM

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@adamstgBit - if you want to be taken seriously (by me) then get rid of your porn ad sig.

adamstgBit

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Quote from: CIYAM on March 07, 2016, 03:39:52 PM

Quote from: adamstgBit on March 07, 2016, 03:37:23 PM

gavain + a few other well rounded individuals

Gavin (learn to spell is name if you want to be his fan) has only *one* other known dev supporting his latest effort (Jeff Garzik).

Now if you look at what went on with Mike Hearn (the last guy who co-operated with Gavin on a hard-fork attempt) then you'll see that it is not so likely that he is going to attract a lot of others (and if Classic goes south then I'll expect you'll likely see a rage-quit from Jeff Garzik in much the same manner as we saw from Mike Hearn).

So what are you going to say once Classic fails and Garzik quits?

(I am pointing this out to make sure that Gavin knows that Classic is going to be his very last chance and that others here know the damage that Gavin has and is still causing to the Bitcoin community)

i might point to VB

idk

adamstgBit

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Here's what morons say

" it is important that we allow all end users to run a bitcoin full node at low cost; end users will not user bitcoin's network they will use lighting network"

I dont even....

CIYAM

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Quote from: adamstgBit on March 07, 2016, 03:37:23 PM

gavain + a few other well rounded individuals

Gavin (learn to spell is name if you want to be his fan) has only *one* other known dev supporting his latest effort (Jeff Garzik).

Now if you look at what went on with Mike Hearn (the last guy who co-operated with Gavin on a hard-fork attempt) then you'll see that it is not so likely that he is going to attract a lot of others (and if Classic goes south then I'll expect you'll likely see a rage-quit from Jeff Garzik in much the same manner as we saw from Mike Hearn).

So what are you going to say once Classic fails and Garzik quits?

(I am pointing this out to make sure that Gavin knows that Classic is going to be his very last chance and that others here know the damage that Gavin has and is still causing to the Bitcoin community)

adamstgBit

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Quote from: CIYAM on March 07, 2016, 03:32:04 PM

Quote from: johnyj on March 07, 2016, 03:28:48 PM

When miners had over 40% hash power, they can voluntarily redirect the hash power to reduce the risk of any single party taking control of more than 40%, but when devs had over 90% of control over code, they don't do anything to reduce their control, but centralized more and more and never listen to users, this is enough reason to prevent new users from using bitcoin

You need to listen to yourself - it isn't a question of percentages.

You can't have morons take over control of a project (no matter if 90% of people want them to) otherwise you end up with a train-wreck.

Do you advocate letting morons run a project (just because they might be a statistical majority or even super-majority)?

no not morons

gavin + a few other well rounded individuals

of course they have to convince us morons to go along with there plan...

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: johnyj on March 07, 2016, 03:28:48 PM

When miners had over 40% hash power, they can voluntarily redirect the hash power to reduce the risk of any single party taking control of more than 40%, but when devs had over 90% of control over code, they don't do anything to reduce their control, but centralized more and more and never listen to users, this is enough reason to prevent new users from using bitcoin

You need to listen to yourself - it isn't a question of percentages.

You can't have morons take over control of a project (no matter if 90% of people want them to) otherwise you end up with a train-wreck.

Do you advocate letting morons run a project (just because they might be a statistical majority or even super-majority)?

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

@chopstik

You started the personal stuff but in any case - my point is that the only Chinese pool that is supporting Gavin is the one that is creating the 1 tx blocks (so they are obviously not genuinely caring about larger tx fee rewards at all).

johnyj

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Beyond Imagination

Quote from: CIYAM on March 07, 2016, 03:23:24 PM

Quote from: johnyj on March 07, 2016, 03:22:26 PM

The stupidity of core devs in economy and finance is endless. They think that users are all so stupid that they will tolerate an artificial rise of fee created by them, while in reality the speculative users just dump their coin and move to some alt-coins, and the users with real demand will start to fork it and turn bitcoin back to the long term road map envisioned by Satoshi

If there is going to be a rush to alts then shouldn't you actually be happy about that?

Personally I don't think we want just one blockchain anyway so I am not really concerned if we end up with many.

I've done with alt-coins since 2012, never touched them again, but current centralization of development in bitcoin really make me consider an alt-coin, but unless you fix this centralization of development problem, any alt-coin will have the same fate. I still hope that we can fix this problem on bitcoin itself

When miners had over 40% hash power, they can voluntarily redirect the hash power to reduce the risk of any single party taking control of more than 40%, but when devs had over 90% of control over code, they don't do anything to reduce their control, but centralized more and more and never listen to users, this is enough reason to prevent new users from using bitcoin

adamstgBit

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Quote from: CIYAM on March 07, 2016, 03:27:21 PM

If you want to be taken seriously then get rid of the ad-sig you have.

ok...

chopstick

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Quote from: CIYAM on March 07, 2016, 03:18:01 PM

Quote from: chopstick on March 07, 2016, 03:16:22 PM

No, just pointing out the fact that you are a blatant hypocrite. That's not an insult, it's just a fact.

Really - sorry - but it is simply not a fact - just the latest crap you posted to try and annoy me.

It doesn't really work as you are a pathetic individual - so go ahead and post some more rubbish please (one day you'll grow up and realise that when you say "it is a fact" that is actually "not true" which everyone else gets but apparently you don't).

I just think it's funny that you accuse me of being forced to result to personal attacks, but then you yourself were the person to start them.

It's pretty hilarious. Here, let me get the definition of hypocrisy for you:

"the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense."

It seems you fit the definition.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. If you want to support Blockstreamcoin and their plan to create a fee-market and profit off sidechains, fine. That is your choice. But don't just go around calling anyone who doesn't agree with you "Gavin fanboys", it's just not a good argument. I will continue to support the idea of multiple competing implementations so that the bitcoin development space is not centralized into the hands of a few. Core, Classic, XT, Unlimited, they all have their pro's and cons. I would like to see them working together so we can create the best bitcoin possible, with no greed or lust for power involved.

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

If you want to be taken seriously then get rid of the ad-sig you have.

adamstgBit

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Quote from: CIYAM on March 07, 2016, 03:23:24 PM

Quote from: johnyj on March 07, 2016, 03:22:26 PM

The stupidity of core devs in economy and finance is endless. They think that users are all so stupid that they will tolerate an artificial rise of fee created by them, while in reality the speculative users just dump their coin and move to some alt-coins, and the users with real demand will start to fork it and turn bitcoin back to the long term road map envisioned by Satoshi

If there is going to be a rush to alts then shouldn't you actually be happy about that?

Personally I don't think we want just one blockchain anyway so I am not really concerned if we end up with many.

bitcoin lost 6% market share in 2 months!

its happening why do you think i'm going ape shit wirting "An open letter to miners" and such.

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: johnyj on March 07, 2016, 03:22:26 PM

The stupidity of core devs in economy and finance is endless. They think that users are all so stupid that they will tolerate an artificial rise of fee created by them, while in reality the speculative users just dump their coin and move to some alt-coins, and the users with real demand will start to fork it and turn bitcoin back to the long term road map envisioned by Satoshi

If there is going to be a rush to alts then shouldn't you actually be happy about that?

Personally I don't think we want just one blockchain anyway so I am not really concerned if we end up with many.

johnyj

legendary

Activity: 1988

Merit: 1012

Beyond Imagination

The stupidity of core devs' knowledge in economy and finance is endless. They think that users are all so stupid that they will tolerate an artificial rise of fee created by them, while in reality the speculative users just dump their coin and move to some alt-coins, and the real bitcoiner will start to fork it and turn bitcoin back to the long term road map envisioned by Satoshi

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: chopstick on March 07, 2016, 03:16:22 PM

No, just pointing out the fact that you are a blatant hypocrite. That's not an insult, it's just a fact.

Really - sorry - but it is simply not a fact - just the latest crap you posted to try and annoy me.

It doesn't really work as you are a pathetic individual - so go ahead and post some more rubbish please (one day you'll grow up and realise that when you say "it is a fact" that is actually "not true" which everyone else gets but apparently you don't).

Also the word is "hold" not "hodl" (only mindless people follow such stupid "memes" - stupid people with no individuality try and follow the latest "meme" such as you have displayed with your sig).

chopstick

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Quote from: CIYAM on March 07, 2016, 03:13:18 PM

Quote from: chopstick on March 07, 2016, 03:12:38 PM

You are the one accusing everyone who doesn't agree with you of either being a shill or paid account, LOL

Yup - getting to personal insults now just as I predicted (they should probably get someone better at this to attack me).

No, just pointing out the fact that you are a blatant hypocrite. That's not an insult, it's just a fact.

chopstick

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Quote from: adamstgBit on March 07, 2016, 03:08:58 PM

the endless bickering is a gr8 for lolz.

Yes... come for the bitcoins, stay for the drama. There has been particularly more drama as of late.

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: chopstick on March 07, 2016, 03:12:38 PM

You are the one accusing everyone who doesn't agree with you of either being a shill or paid account, LOL

Yup - getting to personal insults now just as I predicted (they should probably get someone better at this to attack me).

Topic: Satoshi Roundtable Thoughts - Gavin Andresen - page 3. (Read 3608 times)