Pages:
Author

Topic: Scam Report Against CryptoXchange $100k USD - page 6. (Read 26299 times)

hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
We do not know why CX is doing what they are doing. We do not know the full story. Still 100K is a lot to walk away from, I bet this ends up in court.

If it's to do with "suspicious matters" as defined by the AML/CTF Act, Cryptoxchange literally cannot tell the OP any specifics, let alone a bunch of people on the internet - disclosing that information would be a criminal offence under the "tipping-off" provisions of the Act (most FATF countries have similar provisions).  They can ask him to verify his identity and control of the funding account and they can ask him to prove the source and destination of funds, but they can't tell him that they suspect him of tax evasion/money laundering/financing terrorism or whatever other financial activity is illegal under the Act (the people/organisations to whom they can disclose that information is extremely limited).

I'd like to see just one of the people who claims that an exchange has robbed them of a large amount of money take the matter to court - they all seem curiously reluctant to do so though.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Let us keep in mind he sent in AML documents, CX is claiming they are fake. If the documents are not fake it is a different story.

Believe he also claims to have lawyer as well which if the case the lawyer would be taking care of this matter and he would not be posting on a forum trying to get "his" cash back. As well just about every time the crypto people post they ask for said documents yet he fails to provide any updated ones, you would think his lawyer would be doing that and the crypto people would not have to be asking repeatedly for them. In short I think this is a thinly veiled attempt to pressure the crypto people by putting out false information about them so they will just give him the money to shut him up, well I don't think that will turn out to be a winning strategy for him.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
Let us keep in mind he sent in AML documents, CX is claiming they are fake. If the documents are not fake it is a different story.

There could still be a problem even if he sends documents which are accepted as authentic.  There's more than one AML/KYC issue with this story but, yes, if the OP can satisfactorily identify himself then the possibility that CryptoXchange can simply make a complex Suspicious Matter Report to AUSTRAC and return his funds is there. 
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
If the OP believes that a crime has been committed, then he needs to report it to Australian law enforcement.  You can't bring your own criminal lawyer to prosecute a criminal case.  

You can indeed do that in a common law country which Australia is.

http://www.legallawyers.com.au/legal-topics/criminal-law/private-prosecution-in-new-south-wales/

Quote
The court attendance notice must first be signed by a registrar and the registrar cannot sign the notice if a) the notice does not disclose the grounds for the proceedings; b) it is not in the form required; or c) the rules provide that it should not be issued.

The Local Court Rules provide that a registrar must not sign a court attendance notice for a private prosecution if they believe the proceedings are “frivolous, vexatious, without substance or have no reasonable prospects of success”.

Do you really think that a complaint which is essentially "they won't release my money because I refuse to identify myself as requested under AML/KYC requirements" is going to be found to 1) have substance or 2) have a reasonable prospect of success?

Even assuming that a court didn't outright dismiss the proceedings, they can be terminated by the Attorney-General or taken over by the DPP.

I would honestly like very much to see one of these cases go to court, just as I'd like to see alleged Bitcoin thefts investigated by traditional law enforcement agencies.  The reality seems to be that those who complain the loudest avoid these options because they don't want to be subjected to independent scrutiny which they can't control.

No I don't think this clown has any chance that is not what I replied to it was your assertion that you could not bring a criminal case on your own when you can do it.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
If the OP believes that a crime has been committed, then he needs to report it to Australian law enforcement.  You can't bring your own criminal lawyer to prosecute a criminal case.  

You can indeed do that in a common law country which Australia is.

http://www.legallawyers.com.au/legal-topics/criminal-law/private-prosecution-in-new-south-wales/

Quote
The court attendance notice must first be signed by a registrar and the registrar cannot sign the notice if a) the notice does not disclose the grounds for the proceedings; b) it is not in the form required; or c) the rules provide that it should not be issued.

The Local Court Rules provide that a registrar must not sign a court attendance notice for a private prosecution if they believe the proceedings are “frivolous, vexatious, without substance or have no reasonable prospects of success”.

Do you really think that a complaint which is essentially "they won't release my money because I refuse to identify myself as requested under AML/KYC requirements" is going to be found to 1) have substance or 2) have a reasonable prospect of success?

Even assuming that a court didn't outright dismiss the proceedings, they can be terminated by the Attorney-General or taken over by the DPP.

I would honestly like very much to see one of these cases go to court, just as I'd like to see alleged Bitcoin thefts investigated by traditional law enforcement agencies.  The reality seems to be that those who complain the loudest avoid these options because they don't want to be subjected to independent scrutiny which they can't control.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
If the OP believes that a crime has been committed, then he needs to report it to Australian law enforcement.  You can't bring your own criminal lawyer to prosecute a criminal case. 

You can indeed do that in a common law country which Australia is.


http://www.legallawyers.com.au/legal-topics/criminal-law/private-prosecution-in-new-south-wales/
hoo
member
Activity: 89
Merit: 10
What does it feel like, when you know you can't do anything.

...knowing no one here can do anything, and wouldn't if they could without getting a large percentage.
Welcome to Bitcoin.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
From wme.cc's own ToS regarding AML compliance.

Quote

WME.cc views Money Laundering as a serious criminal offence, and as such, complies with regulatory requirements intended to forestall and prevent money laundering. These include:
Identifying customers.
Retaining transaction and identification records for a minimum period of five years.
• Training staff continuously in terms of anti-money laundering regulations.
• Monitoring and reporting any and all suspicious activities.
• Supervise and oversee that all transactions and information in the system is correct and complies with applicable laws.
Please note that WME.cc has the right to refuse a transaction at any time should suspicion arise that it may be connected to money laundering or any other criminal activity. In addition, WME.cc will report this suspicious activity in order to comply with said regulations, and internationally accepted laws and customs which also prohibits WME.cc from disclosing this information.

I therefore presume that WME knows the identity of the person who sold him the allegedly stolen Bitcoins and has reported the suspicious activity.

From their own ToS regarding refunding of unverified accounts.

Quote
Our service is available to verified customers only. Any deposit made to our bank account without following due process as contain in the users member area will not be treated. Such customer will be forced to register and verify an WME.cc account before funding. We may not refund, Please be informed!

Well what do you know.  If you don't complete the registration and verification process to their satisfaction, they mightn't refund your deposits.

Quote
Customers who could not complete the verification due to inability to provide the requested documents can make cash payments in our office. All other transactions are made through our bank accounts listed on the customer invoice which is only available to the verified customers.

So you can pay money into your account in cash without verification, but transfers and withdrawals must be made through their bank accounts, which requires you to be a verified customer.

Quote
OP if you are legit and still have money left then book a ticket to Australia with a decent international criminal lawyer and take cryptoexchange on directly. If your claim is honest and legit you have alot more to win out of this case than what they actually owe to you.

Criminal lawyers defend people accused by the state of having broken the law.  If the OP believes that a crime has been committed, then he needs to report it to Australian law enforcement.  You can't bring your own criminal lawyer to prosecute a criminal case.  Whether charges are laid and prosecuted is up to the Director of Public Prosecutions.   He could certainly try to recover his funds by civil action in the NSW courts system, though.  Hell, if the case ever got as far as even being listed for mention I'd show up for a front row seat each day.
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 502
Lets assume OP is legit, if it all comes down to it he will provide all the details now magically requested by cryptoexchange since its really a decent size chunk of money.

Im curious what cryptoexchange will request next once they receive those docs, my best guess is they will claim they never received it over and over.

OP if you are legit and still have money left then book a ticket to Australia with a decent international criminal lawyer and take cryptoexchange on directly. If your claim is honest and legit you have alot more to win out of this case than what they actually owe to you.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
When this amount of money/bitcoin is involved his best course of action is a lawsuit. It's even possible he would have to provide less identification than CX is asking for, or at the very least provide that information to a separate entity unlikely to divulge full ID details to CX, especially if he is just asking for the return of his BTC instead of currency.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250

I dont see where they are claiming they will keep the coins. If I had that much money invested I would be doing everything possible to comply with the document request.

Personally I think its crazy to put that much money through one exchange Smiley

I have to agree with this.  If I put 100 grand in an exchange and they requested AML/KYC docs, I would hand it all over.  The only reason not to hand over those docs is if you have something to hide.  At the end of the day, if you have nothing to hide, hand over the identification documents.  Who cares whether it's crypto doing their own policing or the bank that is asking them for it, were talking about 100 grand.


Look at the dates..  (Use this http://masterrussian.com/vocabulary/russian_months.htm )    This guy had a ton of cash in the exchange and then for 2 months got the run around about his withdrawl wires, Mtgox is f'n us, we sent the wires, you didn't get them??.. Then after 2 months of excuses he gets, we need your apostille docs and we have suspended your account..  Because the last 2k of coins he put in were tainted..

Seriously..  Something fishy is going on here on both sides.  I like how Ken cusses out the mtgox exchange owner multiple times, and blames not sending wires on them (basically admiting they didn't have the money to pay), real professionalism there   Roll Eyes


+1

This echos my sentiments completely. It's akin to somebody loaning me $100,000 in twenty dollar bills, and when during the time they start asking for their money back, I somehow get another $2K from them in twenties. After giving the runaround for a couple months on how I have not yet been able to refund their money, I come up with another angle. It seems like that last $2K given me has a funny looking die on it, as if they came from a bank robbery. It now looks like I won't be repaying back a single bill, for I now have concerns as to where the rest of the funds came from. But if you supply me all the information I've asked of you, thus proving you are who you say you are, I will gladly give back to you every single twenty dollar bill I have right here on this funky coffee table. As you can see, I'm a reasonable guy, and trustworthy, whereas you, my friend, are a scumbag. (forgive me for going from 2nd person to 1st, or whatever it is, but you get the gist of what I'm trying to relay).

~Bruno~


+1, dye*
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

I dont see where they are claiming they will keep the coins. If I had that much money invested I would be doing everything possible to comply with the document request.

Personally I think its crazy to put that much money through one exchange Smiley

I have to agree with this.  If I put 100 grand in an exchange and they requested AML/KYC docs, I would hand it all over.  The only reason not to hand over those docs is if you have something to hide.  At the end of the day, if you have nothing to hide, hand over the identification documents.  Who cares whether it's crypto doing their own policing or the bank that is asking them for it, were talking about 100 grand.


Look at the dates..  (Use this http://masterrussian.com/vocabulary/russian_months.htm )    This guy had a ton of cash in the exchange and then for 2 months got the run around about his withdrawl wires, Mtgox is f'n us, we sent the wires, you didn't get them??.. Then after 2 months of excuses he gets, we need your apostille docs and we have suspended your account..  Because the last 2k of coins he put in were tainted..

Seriously..  Something fishy is going on here on both sides.  I like how Ken cusses out the mtgox exchange owner multiple times, and blames not sending wires on them (basically admiting they didn't have the money to pay), real professionalism there   Roll Eyes


+1

This echos my sentiments completely. It's akin to somebody loaning me $100,000 in twenty dollar bills, and when during the time they start asking for their money back, I somehow get another $2K from them in twenties. After giving the runaround for a couple months on how I have not yet been able to refund their money, I come up with another angle. It seems like that last $2K given me has a funny looking dye on it, as if they came from a bank robbery. It now looks like I won't be repaying back a single bill, for I now have concerns as to where the rest of the funds came from. But if you supply me all the information I've asked of you, thus proving you are who you say you are, I will gladly give back to you every single twenty dollar bill I have right here on this funky coffee table. As you can see, I'm a reasonable guy, and trustworthy, whereas you, my friend, are a scumbag. (forgive me for going from 2nd person to 1st, or whatever it is, but you get the gist of what I'm trying to relay).

~Bruno~

Edit: (spelling of dye)
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
It seems like CxC had a hidden agenda from the jump, especially because they've been spinning him in circles for so long. I wouldn't want to provide them anymore information either, who knows how they would use my information? Especially with the web of lies they had been playing around for months? I don't blame the OP. I don't know who is in the wrong here, but for now I think Crypto's fucked up. Let's also not forget that Crypto ignored his lawyer and e-mails and never had their legal team get back to him. I mean really, what kind of image does that leave?
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 502
Wether the OP is scammer or cryptoexchange gone rogue is up for discussion but lets face it all the comments made by mahin and ken during the epic OP is absolutely terrible.

Even if it was all cookie cut, as I am sure Ken would claim, just the wording used by them looks like they are more upset right now being publicly posted about their swindlings which looks criminal on its own than anything else..
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
Then after 2 months of excuses he gets, we need your apostille docs and we have suspended your account..  Because the last 2k of coins he put in were tainted..

That bit - at least - does make sense.  If the origin of that deposit was questionable, then CryptoXchange would be required to review all previous transactions, to review the original KYC information collected, and to apply enhanced verification requirements to the account - in essence, they would need to do the whole KYC process all over again but applying the far more stringent "high risk" requirements.

It's also possible that for some reason the bank refused the transaction/s pending more thorough KYC/AML information.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
★YoBit.Net★ 350+ Coins Exchange & Dice
The fact that WME will not hand over documents is troubling indeed.

I believe that if Crypto were to return all his "stolen" bitcoins, they would be at least civilly, if not criminally liable wrt to the theft of bitcoinia.

On the other hand, this is one hell of an unprofessional business being run here, if the delays are because of the excuses.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1003

I dont see where they are claiming they will keep the coins. If I had that much money invested I would be doing everything possible to comply with the document request.

Personally I think its crazy to put that much money through one exchange Smiley


I have to agree with this.  If I put 100 grand in an exchange and they requested AML/KYC docs, I would hand it all over.  The only reason not to hand over those docs is if you have something to hide.  At the end of the day, if you have nothing to hide, hand over the identification documents.  Who cares whether it's crypto doing their own policing or the bank that is asking them for it, were talking about 100 grand.


Look at the dates..  (Use this http://masterrussian.com/vocabulary/russian_months.htm )    This guy had a ton of cash in the exchange and then for 2 months got the run around about his withdrawl wires, Mtgox is f'n us, we sent the wires, you didn't get them??.. Then after 2 months of excuses he gets, we need your apostille docs and we have suspended your account..  Because the last 2k of coins he put in were tainted..

Seriously..  Something fishy is going on here on both sides.  I like how Ken cusses out the mtgox exchange owner multiple times, and blames not sending wires on them (basically admiting they didn't have the money to pay), real professionalism there   Roll Eyes

hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
Personally I think its crazy to put that much money through one exchange Smiley

I do too because even if you're perfectly legitimate, it only takes one suspicious transaction detected by a bank or other financial service provider for the account/s containing customer deposits to be frozen.  Hell, the DoJ can even seize the domain if they believe it's being used to facilitate crime and nobody's going to be moving funds in or out any time soon if that happens.

It's estimated that tens of billions of dollars were exported from Russia illegally last year.

Quote
Around 40% of the total $84 billion capital outflow registered in 2011 “was taken abroad with signs of money laundering,” said Zubkov. He currently heads a working group on identifying and suppressing illegal financial operations...

Another $33.3bln "was cashed out with signs that the law has been broken inside the country," the First Deputy Prime Minister went on to say.

For that reason alone, large transactions originating either directly or indirectly from Russia or which involve Russian nationals are closely monitored by FATF member countries world-wide.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
looks like cryptos earnings has increased 100k.. with 100k in my pocket a scammer tag would be the last thing on my mind.. watch where you put your coin people!

I dont see where they are claiming they will keep the coins. If I had that much money invested I would be doing everything possible to comply with the document request.

Personally I think its crazy to put that much money through one exchange Smiley
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000


I have to say that after reading all of WME's post for a second time, I have a hard time believing that he is a liar, as far as to his (initial) investment(s) is concern that is.

~Bruno~


Oh, I believe this bit.

Quote
Then i try to exchange over 20k bitcoins through crypto, which i take previous from one of my supplier, exchange some bitcoins, some has sent back to supplier when begin with my account some strange (password reseting and etc strange things).

The problem is that it obscures the true origin of the funds and that pretty much automatically triggers more stringent AML/KYC requirements.  It also sounds like the OP tried to change the destination of the withdrawals.  Once anything "suspicious" like that comes into play, the onus is on the customer to provide proof of their identity and of the legitimacy of the transaction and the funds.  Service providers ask for specific documents in order to help the customer prove those things and to prevent themselves being fined for non-compliance and/or prosecuted for aiding and sbetting money laundering, tax evasion, terrorism financing or whatever.
Pages:
Jump to: